Roquefort Raider
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Post by Roquefort Raider on May 24, 2019 14:45:00 GMT -5
Ouch, that's painful. The photorealism of the face clashes with the more cartoony hands and feathering.
I never thought I'd miss Infantino's approach, but here we are! At least his art was uniformly cartoony.
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Post by Duragizer on May 24, 2019 19:30:29 GMT -5
I take it the same artist is behind this atrocity:  I never thought I'd see Aura Garrido in a Star Wars comic book. |
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Post by tarkintino on May 25, 2019 1:10:15 GMT -5
Actual image from Star Wars #31...  That is horrible. |
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Post by Icctrombone on May 25, 2019 6:13:47 GMT -5
Hey Confessor, do you know if the actors that are having there likenesses copies are getting extra money for it, or was it written into their movie contracts ? |
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on May 25, 2019 10:12:05 GMT -5
Hey Confessor , do you know if the actors that are having there likenesses copies are getting extra money for it, or was it written into their movie contracts ? I'm sort of fuzzy on the exact legal situation regarding actor's likenesses being used in comics these days, but my understanding with the original Bronze Age Star Wars series is that Marvel were not allowed to use the actor's likenesses. I'm sure I've read that somewhere, but I don't remember where. That's the reason why every artist, from Howard Chaykin and Carmine Infantino in the early part of the run, right through to Cynthia Martin at the end of the series, always drew an approximation of the actors. I mean, you could easily identify who was who, but Luke Skywalker basically never actually looked like Mark Hamill or Han Solo like Harrison Ford etc. There were rare exceptions, of course, but these were very few and far between. A few examples of the actor's likenesses being used in the comic, just off of the top of my head, would be Dave Stevens drawing a very serviceable likeness of Mark Hamill on the penultimate page of SW issue #6...  And an anonymous inker (possibly Gene Day, but I'm not sure) "fixed" Luke's face on the last page of Star Wars #47 to make it look more like Hamill...  Covers too generally didn't have the SW actor's likenesses on them, but one exception that springs to mind is Tom Palmer's painted cover for SW #81...  |
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Post by aquagoat on May 25, 2019 10:49:27 GMT -5
I take it the same artist is behind this atrocity: I never thought I'd see Aura Garrido in a Star Wars comic book. Yeah, it's Salvador Larocca. And the worst thing is, he's a great artist! Tracing screen shots from Star Wars movies is beneath him. He has a lovely semi-manga natural style. ![]() |
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Post by tarkintino on May 26, 2019 15:26:06 GMT -5
I'm sort of fuzzy on the exact legal situation regarding actor's likenesses being used in comics these days, but my understanding with the original Bronze Age Star Wars series is that Marvel were not allowed to use the actor's likenesses. Which was strange, because the "Big Three" of Star Wars received some payment (or percentage) for their likeness used in toys (and other forms of merchandising), as seen in Kenner's 12-inch action figures from 1979:  Why Lucasfilm made the deal for the actors' likeness to be used on toys, but not the comics is a mystery, as both are (at the end of it all) marketing products keeping the franchise alive/successful. One would think a stronger visual connection between the actors and their comic counterparts would have helped sales to some degree, and be one of the rare adaptations to not go off the rails where transforming a living actor to the pencil and ink world was concerned. |
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Post by Confessor on May 26, 2019 19:27:37 GMT -5
I'm sort of fuzzy on the exact legal situation regarding actor's likenesses being used in comics these days, but my understanding with the original Bronze Age Star Wars series is that Marvel were not allowed to use the actor's likenesses. Which was strange, because the "Big Three" of Star Wars received some payment (or percentage) for their likeness used in toys (and other forms of merchandising), as seen in Kenner's 12-inch action figures from 1979: Why Lucasfilm made the deal for the actors' likeness to be used on toys, but not the comics is a mystery, as both are (at the end of it all) marketing products keeping the franchise alive/successful. One would think a stronger visual connection between the actors and their comic counterparts would have helped sales to some degree, and be one of the rare adaptations to not go off the rails where transforming a living actor to the pencil and ink world was concerned. Actually, I'm pretty sure that Hamill, Ford or Fisher never made anything off of the merchandising associated with the original trilogy. They signed away the rights to their likenesses being used in merchandising when they signed with Lucasfilm for a part in the original movie. This was no doubt because merchandising wasn't really a big thing for sci-fi movies at the time. Star Wars, of course, changed all that and the actors lost out on a lot of merchandising money. So, I don't think any of those actors got anything for those 12" figures or the smaller Kenner ones either. I think I'm right in saying that Alec Guinness was the only one savvy enough to have negotiated a royalty percentage for any appearances of himself as Obi-Wan Kenobi on SW merchandise. As for the comics, I'm guessing (and I'm totally out of my field of knowledge here) that Marvel were allowed by Lucasfilm to use a vague likeness of the characters -- like, Han with dark hair, Luke with blond hair, Leia with her cinnamon bun hairstyle etc -- but weren't actually allowed to draw Harrison Ford, Mark Hamill, or Carrie Fisher's faces. I imagine it's the same with the toys too because, frankly, those examples you posted above look nothing like the actors beyond them having the correct hair colour or hair style. I'm not sure how it would've worked for something like the bubble gum cards, which, being photographic, obviously used the actors' exact likenesses. Again, whether Lucasfilm or Topps would've had to pay the actors for using their photos on trading cards is something I don't know, but my guess would be that this was something else the actors made no money out of. |
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Post by wildfire2099 on May 26, 2019 20:42:32 GMT -5
I have no idea about movie cards, but Topps use to have to sign each player and have them agree to have a card, and the bigger stars got more money... it's also why there are some players that don't have a card some years.. they didn't agree to it. Topps generally required exclusive contracts, which is why it was the only game in town from the mid-50s (once they ran Bowman out of business) until 1981.
IIRC, it was 1981 when the MLBPA took over licensing, (which also allowed other companies to make cards). I'd suspect the trading cards were planned from the start (lots of pre-star wars shows and movies have them) so I suspect whatever they got was covered in the original contract.
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Post by tarkintino on May 26, 2019 22:09:21 GMT -5
Actually, I'm pretty sure that Hamill, Ford or Fisher never made anything off of the merchandising associated with the original trilogy. They signed away the rights to their likenesses being used in merchandising when they signed with Lucasfilm for a part in the original movie. According to Celebrity Net Worth, starting with 1977's Star Wars, Mark Hamill (and Carrie Fisher) were given 1/4 of a percent of the film's total profits, which included re-releases, TV screenings, and more. That's major for an actor who was best known as a young, TV character actor and largely unknown as a movie performer. If he received that, it makes one wonder if he also made any deals regarding his likeness, as it was an option. We can assume it was because Fisher complained about selling her likeness rights away, suggesting she had an option to retain / profit from that. Actually, the original Planet of the Apes film series' merchandising was an explosive success for 20th Century Fox. In fact, during the production of the original film in 1967, associate producer Mort Abrahams revealed that producer Arthur P. Jacobs created a 130 page merchandising book (unheard of for a film at that time), with ideas on how to market the then-untested film. While the original film was only fairly merchandised while the film series was in production, by 1973/74 (the period pf the last of the movies and the start of the TV series), the real merchandising profit explosion happened, with the film industry taking notice--including (reportedly) George Lucas. Sci-fi TV was another lucrative merchandising avenue, so much so that in the 1970's, William Shatner and Leonard Nimoy sued Paramount (independently) for not paying them to use their likeness on the torrential flood of Star Trek merchandise, which was making millions for Paramount at that time. For retail dolls, there's a general resemblance to the actors. Kids of that period and collectors in the years since have credited the 12 inch line for coming closer to the appearance of the actors than the 3 32/4 inch figures, that fell into the ssme kind of "vague likeness" as the comics. |
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on May 27, 2019 3:02:38 GMT -5
Actually, I'm pretty sure that Hamill, Ford or Fisher never made anything off of the merchandising associated with the original trilogy. They signed away the rights to their likenesses being used in merchandising when they signed with Lucasfilm for a part in the original movie. According to Celebrity Net Worth, starting with 1977's Star Wars, Mark Hamill (and Carrie Fisher) were given 1/4 of a percent of the film's total profits, which included re-releases, TV screenings, and more. That's major for an actor who was best known as a young, TV character actor and largely unknown as a movie performer. If he received that, it makes one wonder if he also made any deals regarding his likeness, as it was an option. We can assume it was because Fisher complained about selling her likeness rights away, suggesting she had an option to retain / profit from that. Yeah, I knew about the 1/4 of a cent deal for box office receipts, tv screenings etc...and I think Ford and Fisher also got this deal. But I've read a few times over the years, in various places, that the majority of the actors in the OT, including the "big three", made no money from merchandising. As I say, I believe that Alec Guinness was the only one who did. This was no doubt because merchandising wasn't really a big thing for sci-fi movies at the time. Actually, the original Planet of the Apes film series' merchandising was an explosive success for 20th Century Fox. In fact, during the production of the original film in 1967, associate producer Mort Abrahams revealed that producer Arthur P. Jacobs created a 130 page merchandising book (unheard of for a film at that time), with ideas on how to market the then-untested film. While the original film was only fairly merchandised while the film series was in production, by 1973/74 (the period pf the last of the movies and the start of the TV series), the real merchandising profit explosion happened, with the film industry taking notice--including (reportedly) George Lucas. Sci-fi TV was another lucrative merchandising avenue, so much so that in the 1970's, William Shatner and Leonard Nimoy sued Paramount (independently) for not paying them to use their likeness on the torrential flood of Star Trek merchandise, which was making millions for Paramount at that time. Sure, and Space:1999 also had some merchandising prior to Star Wars, but the level of merchandising for Star Trek, POFA, Space:1999 etc wasn't in the same league as the level of merchandising for SW between 1978 and 1984. Not by a long shot. SW was a merchandising game changer, right from the start. I mean, I'm sure you're right that Lucas was influenced or inspired by Star Trek or POTA merchandising or whatever, but he was ahead of pretty much everyone, in terms of the sheer volume of SW merchandising that he licensed at the time of the OT. I'm sure he had long seen the potential in this area and that's why he not only had the principle actors sign away their rights, but also convinced 20th Century Fox to hand over the merchandising rights to him too. Something they did because a) they thought SW would be a flop anyway, and b) sci-fi merchandising wasn't really a big deal commercially at the time. At least, not compared to what it later became after Star Wars. For retail dolls, there's a general resemblance to the actors. Kids of that period and collectors in the years since have credited the 12 inch line for coming closer to the appearance of the actors than the 3 32/4 inch figures, that fell into the ssme kind of "vague likeness" as the comics. It's a very "general resemblance" though. Those 12" dolls still basically look nothing like the actors. I mean, if they were seen out of context, without the characters' signature costumes or, in Leia's case, signature hairstyle, I don't think anyone would be able to identify those 12" doll heads as being Harrison Ford, Mark Hamill or Carrie Fisher. They're pretty rubbish likenesses really. |
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Roquefort Raider
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Post by Roquefort Raider on May 27, 2019 8:49:21 GMT -5
Hey Confessor , do you know if the actors that are having there likenesses copies are getting extra money for it, or was it written into their movie contracts ? I'm sort of fuzzy on the exact legal situation regarding actor's likenesses being used in comics these days, but my understanding with the original Bronze Age Star Wars series is that Marvel were not allowed to use the actor's likenesses. I'm sure I've read that somewhere, but I don't remember where.
I remember the same thing; it was mentioned in the Battlestar Galactica comic, after Walt Simonson had drawn an issue where the characters looked like the actors playing them on TV (which as a fan I was delighted with). Walt was told to stop. |
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Post by tarkintino on May 27, 2019 17:06:11 GMT -5
Yeah, I knew about the 1/4 of a cent deal for box office receipts, tv screenings etc...and I think Ford and Fisher also got this deal. But I've read a few times over the years, in various places, that the majority of the actors in the OT, including the "big three", made no money from merchandising. As I say, I believe that Alec Guinness was the only one who did. I think the fact Fisher said she sold her likeness rights away meant it was an option for her, and we must assume Hamill and Ford, too. Hamill has never complained about the ancillary benefits he's received from his role in the OT, and in consideration of how large his earnings were for the first Star Wars movie was above the other main players ($650 thousand over, for one example, Ford's total salary of $10,000) he--and/or his agent--were smart negotiators. To that end, if Guinness (or his agent) had the foresight to keep likeness rights (when that was something he likely never dealt with up to that time in his long career)it either meant he saw the potential and wisely retained those rights, or was the textbook example of dumb luck. I'll go with the former assumption, which should extend to Hamill, as I doubt if likeness rights were on the table, he would have turned it down, since he was one of the few participants in that production who believed it could be successful. You just made all of those 70s kids who owned those dolls shed tears like ROTS Anakin.  |
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Post by zaku on May 30, 2019 5:07:31 GMT -5
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on May 30, 2019 5:44:37 GMT -5
I'm so going to get this issue.  |
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