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Post by Pól Rua on Apr 14, 2015 0:12:25 GMT -5
An additional question: Is the "power fantasy" associated with superheroes limited to that genre? And do most readers really "grow out of" enjoying such fantasies? Oh hell no. James Bond is a power fantasy. He has the power to get any woman he wants, to kill without consequence, and to enjoy all the best upscale living available. Recently, there have been a number of films which have been described as 'dad' power fantasies - 'Taken', the recent remake of 'The Equalizer', and 'Red' are examples - basically, it's an older male lead who is shown to be living a life which seems drab and unexceptional, but who is actually a world-weary headkicker. It's a power fantasy for older-to-middle-aged men. The Grand Theft Auto games are a power fantasy. It's the ability to go anywhere and do anything you want without consequence. |
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Post by Pól Rua on Apr 14, 2015 0:17:29 GMT -5
Also, I was recently cautioned about my use of language. That's cool, and I welcome the message. I post on a bunch of forums, so sometimes, I don't remember the rules of every one. Needless to say, I will be watching the language I use here in the future.
I apologize to anyone who was offended. In addition, I'd like to make absolutely clear that I am thoroughly enjoying the discussion and that I feel no anger or animosity. Gothos has his opinions regarding comics and I have mine and we disagree on many of those points, and that's cool. I'm having fun here, and I'm certainly not trying to make any kind of personal attacks on individuals here (Dan DiDio doesn't get the same courtesy, damn his black heart!).
I'm a big fan of lively and passionate discussion, and I hope I haven't overstepped any bounds of civility.
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Post by dupersuper on Apr 14, 2015 5:07:52 GMT -5
The Grand Theft Auto games are a power fantasy. It's the ability to go anywhere and do anything you want without consequence. Like running through city streets in a gimp costume beating the elderly to death with a giant double-sided dildo...for example. |
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Post by gothos on Apr 14, 2015 16:15:29 GMT -5
To try and put underground comics and mainstream newstand comics in the same boat back in the 60s and early 70s would result with a huge hole that would sink one's logic. Undergrounds would occasionally parody superheroes and other comicbook motifs but they mainly were about advancing radical left-wing ideology. Drug use and rampant sex was part of it. Ridiculing authority, politicians and police and the military in particular. Anti-war and anti racism, demonstrations and revolutions. Any parent having a choice of what their children should be reading between the 2 would prefer comic books in a heartbeat If you think the public thought of the underground reader as a mere man-child you couldn't be more wrong. It tied into the rock n'roll, student demonstation lifestyle. It scared middle America shitless because back then it seemed America was on the verge of a revolution 9and it was between the anti-war and civil rights movements). Undergrounds were part of that. They were far far away from spandex caped crusader stories in the public's mind I haven't said the undergrounds and the mainstream comics were identical in their effect; only that the less open-minded squares would have thought of them all as suffering from some form of childishness, be it that of real children or adolescents. I don't know that Joe Average back then really thought the underground-reading teen would help bring about a revolution. The main vibe I got from living during that time was that Joe Average was afraid his particular kids might get corrupted by the hedonistic hippie lifestyle. That's the sort of critique I recall from, say, the square-oriented television shows that critiqued the hippie movement: things like IRONSIDE and DRAGNET. STAR TREK's "space hippie" episode tried to have it both ways, so as not to lose the young audience, but that episode comes down pretty clearly on the "no free lunch" side. FWIW, I got a laugh when Jules Feiffer asserted that the average underground artist's grasp of left-wing ideology went no deeper than quotations from "Mao's Little Red Book." |
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Post by gothos on Apr 14, 2015 16:16:16 GMT -5
Crumb and Lee, as different as they were, certainly did seem to tap into the Weltanschauung of the time. Lee used to remark that the Marvel offices started getting visits from major film-makers like Alan Resnais and Federico Fellini. Someone-- Roy Thomas, maybe-- remarked that Resnais may have even thought about collaborating with Lee on something-or-other, though nothing came from their meeting. Wow. What a collaboration that would have been. Did not know that. And your points are well taken and thoroughly engrossing, I should add. Thanks. |
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Apr 14, 2015 16:32:22 GMT -5
An additional question: Is the "power fantasy" associated with superheroes limited to that genre? And do most readers really "grow out of" enjoying such fantasies? Oh hell no. James Bond is a power fantasy. He has the power to get any woman he wants, to kill without consequence, and to enjoy all the best upscale living available. Recently, there have been a number of films which have been described as 'dad' power fantasies - 'Taken', the recent remake of 'The Equalizer', and 'Red' are examples - basically, it's an older male lead who is shown to be living a life which seems drab and unexceptional, but who is actually a world-weary headkicker. It's a power fantasy for older-to-middle-aged men. The Grand Theft Auto games are a power fantasy. It's the ability to go anywhere and do anything you want without consequence. And can be entirely healthy to the human brain in keeping those power trips in a fantasy and not real life. Right down to adult entertainment. Being entertained by something we morally object to isn't anything new to civilized humanity. Do we have gladiatorial fights where real people loose their lives for our entertainment? No. But we have entertainment of it. Being a very sheltered child, I have no qualms about most comics, video games and movies for my boys. If you don't entertain what comes natural as a species it could come out in an unhealthy manner. Really if you ask, which no one did, I think Wertham and many other advocates, have it backwards to a degree. Bottling things up and denying instinct to the extreme is no more healthy than doing whatever you want with no regard for anyone else. There's a happy medium that I think comic books, video games and movies fill. allowing us the thrill of the "hunt" but keeping us off the proverbial safari. |
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