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Post by thwhtguardian on Dec 3, 2024 16:58:58 GMT -5
I don't entirely agree that it's only a matter of getting older and nothing else because I disliked the Ewoks at the time, it's just that hat dislike has grown as I've aged. On the other hand, it's true that I was significantly older by the time Return came out than when I saw the first movie: I was 15 years old for Star Wars, 18 for Empire, and 21 for Return, so age was a factor even then. But not the only factor: I still think the Ewoks brought something new to the series and the change was not for the better. Of course it's entirely possible that had I seen the Ewoks at the age of 10, let's say, I'd have been totally OK with them. We all accept that the writing in the Harry Potter books matured as it progressed, roughly corresponding to an audience that might have read the first book at quite a young age and were young adults by the time the seventh was published. I think Star Wars sort of began like that with Empire feeling like a progression in terms of seriousness and maturity from the pure adventure of the first movie. From that perspective, Return felt like a partial regression. Of course that doesn't mean Lucas had any such progression in mind or even that it would have been a welcome development for most viewers. I think I would have enjoyed that kind of thing but probably the age I was for the films when they first appeared plays a part in that feeling. Empire definitely feels like a more "mature" film than the original or Return of the Jedi, but even then I'd say only slightly and mostly at the end. Harry Potter is a good point, in that for all J.K.'s faults as a person she had a clear vision with how she wanted those books to progress and mirror her audience's growth, I'd argue though that Lucas never did. It worked well for Harry Potter, and no doubt it could have been interesting if Lucas had done the same...but it's not a flaw that he didn't choose to do that. Age I think definitely plays a part in it, but I'd say temperament as well: namely an inability to keep in touch with your "inner child". Earlier I compared the dislike of the Ewoks to those who don't enjoy reading comics published after whenever they were kids/teens, and I stand by the idea that the two issues are one in the same. In the same way that Return of the Jedi isn't inconsistent with the prior films in quality, I'd argue that comics today aren't any worse than they ever were in the past and that there is plenty to enjoy...the only thing that changed for those that don't enjoy modern comics but enjoyed comics in the past is the readers not necessarily the quality of the books. For those that keep that "inner child" alive they continue to enjoy things like the Ewoks and superheroes while others move on. And there's nothing wrong with that, there are things like Wrestling (sorry supergato ) that I loved as a kid but you couldn't pay me to try now...but I will fully admit that's simply my taste and that nothing has changed about wrestling quality wise and that the people who enjoy it to this day aren't wrong for doing so. However, I think a lot of those people who dislike the Ewoks, (and modern comics)like Denis Villeneve, really lack that kind of self awareness and that's what bugs me about it. I said it above, it's totally cool not to like Return of the Jedi, and in the case of Denis Villeneve, not want to make a franchise film like Star Wars...but just own that it's largely down to your own personal tastes and not really a strong critical reason. |
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Post by sunofdarkchild on Dec 3, 2024 17:27:23 GMT -5
The problem the Ewoks represent is not limited to Return of the Jedi, but is an issue with Empire Strikes back as well. The only time in the original trilogy that either the Stormtroopers or a Star Destroyer ever do anything is in the very first scene of the trilogy. The Star Destroyer easily defeats the blockade runner, and the Storm Troopers slaughter the rebels when they invade the smaller ship. This set up both the Empire's troops and ships as a major threat for the first movie. The Stormtroopers missing later in the movie was even explained as Vader letting the heroes go because he put a tracker on the Falcon.
Empire is ironically where the 'Empire sucks at everything' problem really began. The AT-ATs were the only Imperial craft that actually did anything in the whole movie. Even Vader's Super Star Destroyer did nothing but float in space looking threatening. The Star Destroyers were nothing but fodder to be easily destroyed or disabled, and the Stormtroopers began missing easy shots for no reason other than the heroes had plot armor, turning them into a joke.
Return of the Jedi did not fix any of these problems. Once again the Star Destroyers are treated like a joke and do nothing the entire movie, and Vader's supposedly impressive ship gets taken out not by a shot on its main reactor, but by a fighter crashing into the bridge. The Stormtroopers again are worthless in the battle with the Ewoks. Basically, in the entire Empire, only Vader and the Emperor can do anything, and the Empire needs the Death Star because all its other ships suck.
The reason for this is that in the second movie the focus has shifted from the Empire as a whole to Vader specifically, and then to Vader and the Emperor together in the third movie. So narratively, it doesn't matter that the Star Destroyers and Stormtroopers are as effective as throwing a sponge at a tsunami as long as Vader overpowers Luke or the Emperor zaps him with lightning. But I think this is an area where both the prequel and sequel trilogies did it better than the original trilogy.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Dec 3, 2024 18:02:18 GMT -5
"Only imperial stormtroopers are that precise" said Obi-Wan. And from then on, the poor guys never managed to hit anything.
He jinxed them, I tell you!
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Post by Rob Allen on Dec 3, 2024 18:23:12 GMT -5
I was 20 when the first film came out, and I'm still disappointed that they went with a made-up word, "Jedi". Having seen nothing in writing before seeing the movie, I thought they were saying "Jet-Eye Knights". That still sounds intriguing.
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,232 
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Post by Confessor on Dec 3, 2024 20:26:18 GMT -5
I saw a short trailer for Skeleton Crew on TV the other day and thought it looked utterly awful. It was like Spy Kids in space or something! It was almost like some internet meme about the "Disney-fication" of Star Wars.
Hard pass for me I'm afraid.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Dec 3, 2024 21:06:42 GMT -5
"Only imperial stormtroopers are that precise" said Obi-Wan. And from then on, the poor guys never managed to hit anything. He jinxed them, I tell you! of course he did.. he's a JEDI |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Dec 3, 2024 21:09:02 GMT -5
I saw a short trailer for Skeleton Crew on TV the other day and thought it looked utterly awful. It was like Spy Kids in space or something! It was almost like some internet meme about the "Disney-fication" of Star Wars. Hard pass for me I'm afraid. Same! I seems like someone wanted to remake Goonies and they said... wait, let's make it Star Wars! Or something. Perhaps I'll watch it when a go back to Disney for Andor or the next interesting Marvel show, but they are not getting my money right now. |
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