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Post by wildfire2099 on Jan 27, 2015 17:27:07 GMT -5
Really? Huh... I guess I'm misremembering then.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jan 27, 2015 18:17:00 GMT -5
She had a more delicate-looking costume (more pink than purple) before this one; this particular armoured look was adopted, I think, when the X-Men went underground in Australia and started looking and sounding more bad ass. Ah, the good old "jumped the shark" era (kind of appropriate for the beaches of Oz). Oh, how I don't miss it. I'm fully with you on that, and it's always a wonder to see how many people love the outback era.
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Post by the4thpip on Jan 27, 2015 18:29:56 GMT -5
Really? Huh... I guess I'm misremembering then. This was the entire team back then:
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2015 21:37:27 GMT -5
Squirrel Girl didn't join the Great Lakes Avengers until the second issue of their mini, July 2005 Technically, she did appear in the first issue, but that was one of her out-of-continuity commenting bits. And that was only her 2nd appearance in a Marvel book. If you don't count Marvel Year-In-Review 1992, a book put together for Marvel stock-holders.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2015 2:42:30 GMT -5
I'm fully with you on that, and it's always a wonder to see how many people love the outback era. What's not to love - terrible stories, terrible art, terrible costumes, terrible hairstyles....?
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Post by the4thpip on Jan 28, 2015 5:10:28 GMT -5
I'm fully with you on that, and it's always a wonder to see how many people love the outback era. What's not to love - terrible stories, terrible art, terrible costumes, terrible hairstyles....? I do remember liking these stories, but have not read them in decades to see how they held up:
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jan 28, 2015 9:55:08 GMT -5
I'll grant that the concept of Genosha, a country where mutants were exploited as an economic asset, made sense in a SF context and made for a nice parallel with the South African apartheid.
Where the mag floundered in my opinion is in its general direction, or lack thereof. The X-Men, at the time, were still the team where character development and slowly-incubating plots kept readers coming back month after month; but after the mutant massacre, most plot lines were simply dropped for a simpler (some would say simplistic) approach to super-heroics.
Before the mutant massacre, here are some of the themes that were incubating: 1) Nightcrawler was having theological problems following his meeting the Beyonder, and his relation with Amanda was on the rocks, 2) Wolverine's healing factor wasn't working as it should have been, hinting that it may have been overtaxed and that the man couldn't take as much punishment anymore, 3) Rachel had been stabbed by Wolverine and carried to Mojo's world, fate unknown, 4) Nimrod, the super-sentinel from the future, was developing a human personality and seemed on the way to overwrite his original programing 5) Kitty and Peter had unresolved issues, 6) Psylocke was a mole from Mojo's world, unaware that her eyes were transmitting all she saw to another dimension, 7) Prof. X, grievously injured, had been taken to outer space, 8) Rogue was Mystique's foster daughter but Nightcrawler may have been her actual son, 9) Since we're talking about Chris Claremont, I'm sure I'm forgetting twelve other sub-plots.
All of that was wiped from the board when half the team was taken out and replaced by second stringers. A ballsy move by Claremont, who may have wanted to avoid the easy road of giving us more and more adventure with safe and popular characters. But I don't think the gamble paid off. First, the X-Men cut all ties with their rich and varied supporting cast, becoming a generic super-team living in isolation and "going out on missions". Second, Dazzler, Psylocke and Alex Summers simply weren't that interesting. Making them more hardcore didn't help any, and it even made them more homogeneous and boring. Longshot, who was added almost as an afterthought, was never a good fit; his Moorcock-esque, surreal miniseries was a lot of fun but had little to do with the X-Men's universe. Oh, and what irked me even more: not only was the X-men's rich history no longer used, it was downright denied. To wit: the mission statement, as mentionned in one of the front page blurbs, was "to fight an evil band of mutants known as the Marauders". What? What ever happened defending a humanity that fears and loathes them? Then when Colossus finally overcame his paralysis and got ready to get back into action, we saw him draw an image of his old comrades... Havok, Psylocke, Longshot, Dazzler, Storm, Rogue and Wolverine. Say what? Pete, old boy, the first four should be taken out of that picture and replaced by the X-Men you actually knew!
Then there's the matter of the general plot itself... What's this thing about being "legends" that can be seen by people but not by technological devices? How does that even work? How many contradictions does it bring to a story? If a camera can't see the X-men, will an automatic door open for them? If they break a bone, can they get an x-ray?
Plus, their initial motivation in going underground was to protect their loved ones... How can they protect their loved ones by abandoning them and moving to a desert town in the Australian outback? (We saw how well that worked, too, when those stupid unkillable cyborgs trashed Muir Island).
I was so relieved when this interlude concluded (however silly the Siege Perilous plot turned out to be) and the mag reconnected with its roots. I can't say that it ever regained its freshness, however.
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Post by the4thpip on Jan 28, 2015 13:04:35 GMT -5
I'll grant that the concept of Genosha, a country where mutants were exploited as an economic asset, made sense in a SF context and made for a nice parallel with the South African apartheid. Where the mag floundered in my opinion is in its general direction, or lack thereof. The X-Men, at the time, were still the team where character development and slowly-incubating plots kept readers coming back month after month; but after the mutant massacre, most plot lines were simply dropped for a simpler (some would say simplistic) approach to super-heroics. Before the mutant massacre, here are some of the themes that were incubating: 1) Nightcrawler was having theological problems following his meeting the Beyonder, and his relation with Amanda was on the rocks, 2) Wolverine's healing factor wasn't working as it should have been, hinting that it may have been overtaxed and that the man couldn't take as much punishment anymore, 3) Rachel had been stabbed by Wolverine and carried to Mojo's world, fate unknown, 4) Nimrod, the super-sentinel from the future, was developing a human personality and seemed on the way to overwrite his original programing 5) Kitty and Peter had unresolved issues, 6) Psylocke was a mole from Mojo's world, unaware that her eyes were transmitting all she saw to another dimension, 7) Prof. X, grievously injured, had been taken to outer space, 8) Rogue was Mystique's foster daughter but Nightcrawler may have been her actual son, 9) Since we're talking about Chris Claremont, I'm sure I'm forgetting twelve other sub-plots. (snip) One i can think of was Dazzler having visions of death and her aura becoming brighter, but plans to kill her off where scrapped and the effects were never mentioned again.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2015 15:19:18 GMT -5
Thor is pretty fun, and I like that Spider-Man (who I've never cared for) did the "she can't just be Thor" thing.
I'm glad I gave Gotham by Midnight a second chance, because I"m really enjoying it more and more each month. The art has clicked for me and they're doing a great job of mixing backstories in with the current events.
Rasputin is chugging along. I do like that the increase in dialogue, as the first few issues felt really slight.
Had really low expectations for Conan/Red Sonja (not a Simone fan), but I actually enjoyed it. The art wasn't the most fitting, but not bad.
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Post by Dizzy D on Jan 28, 2015 16:20:05 GMT -5
I'll grant that the concept of Genosha, a country where mutants were exploited as an economic asset, made sense in a SF context and made for a nice parallel with the South African apartheid. Where the mag floundered in my opinion is in its general direction, or lack thereof. The X-Men, at the time, were still the team where character development and slowly-incubating plots kept readers coming back month after month; but after the mutant massacre, most plot lines were simply dropped for a simpler (some would say simplistic) approach to super-heroics. Before the mutant massacre, here are some of the themes that were incubating: 1) Nightcrawler was having theological problems following his meeting the Beyonder, and his relation with Amanda was on the rocks, 2) Wolverine's healing factor wasn't working as it should have been, hinting that it may have been overtaxed and that the man couldn't take as much punishment anymore, 3) Rachel had been stabbed by Wolverine and carried to Mojo's world, fate unknown, 4) Nimrod, the super-sentinel from the future, was developing a human personality and seemed on the way to overwrite his original programing 5) Kitty and Peter had unresolved issues, 6) Psylocke was a mole from Mojo's world, unaware that her eyes were transmitting all she saw to another dimension, 7) Prof. X, grievously injured, had been taken to outer space, 8) Rogue was Mystique's foster daughter but Nightcrawler may have been her actual son, 9) Since we're talking about Chris Claremont, I'm sure I'm forgetting twelve other sub-plots. All of that was wiped from the board when half the team was taken out and replaced by second stringers. A ballsy move by Claremont, who may have wanted to avoid the easy road of giving us more and more adventure with safe and popular characters. But I don't think the gamble paid off. First, the X-Men cut all ties with their rich and varied supporting cast, becoming a generic super-team living in isolation and "going out on missions". Second, Dazzler, Psylocke and Alex Summers simply weren't that interesting. Making them more hardcore didn't help any, and it even made them more homogeneous and boring. Longshot, who was added almost as an afterthought, was never a good fit; his Moorcock-esque, surreal miniseries was a lot of fun but had little to do with the X-Men's universe. Oh, and what irked me even more: not only was the X-men's rich history no longer used, it was downright denied. To wit: the mission statement, as mentionned in one of the front page blurbs, was "to fight an evil band of mutants known as the Marauders". What? What ever happened defending a humanity that fears and loathes them? Then when Colossus finally overcame his paralysis and got ready to get back into action, we saw him draw an image of his old comrades... Havok, Psylocke, Longshot, Dazzler, Storm, Rogue and Wolverine. Say what? Pete, old boy, the first four should be taken out of that picture and replaced by the X-Men you actually knew! Then there's the matter of the general plot itself... What's this thing about being "legends" that can be seen by people but not by technological devices? How does that even work? How many contradictions does it bring to a story? If a camera can't see the X-men, will an automatic door open for them? If they break a bone, can they get an x-ray? Plus, their initial motivation in going underground was to protect their loved ones... How can they protect their loved ones by abandoning them and moving to a desert town in the Australian outback? (We saw how well that worked, too, when those stupid unkillable cyborgs trashed Muir Island). I was so relieved when this interlude concluded (however silly the Siege Perilous plot turned out to be) and the mag reconnected with its roots. I can't say that it ever regained its freshness, however. There were things I liked about the Australian Outback era (Psylocke's development, before they turned her into a ninja), but overall I agree with you. Longshot (as he was in the original mini-series) is one of my favourite characters, but Claremont had no clue what to do with him (same goes for PAD, BTW. Luckily I did get a pretty decent Longshot series recently). Longshot and Meggan are pretty similar characters in some ways and they both were both dumbed out once they became part of the X-series. And I had big problems with the whole Plan Omega: the idea was that the X-Men use their apparent death to hit at opponents who aren't ready for them, but apart from the first strike against the Reavers, they never do. At the same time, pretending to be death causes a lot of pain and hurt for their friends and family (a lot of Infero happened because of this. Really, the plan was that important that they couldn't give Illyana, Brian, Kitty, Kurt or Scott a phone call?)
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Post by Rob Allen on Jan 28, 2015 20:07:00 GMT -5
Here's a story that appeared in today's newspaper. The writer is a longtime comics fan.
Heavy Metal comic line to move to Portland
By Steve Duin The Oregonian/OregonLive
Heavy Metal, the iconic science-fiction and fantasy magazine, will base its new comic-book line in Portland, co-owner Jeff Krelitz says, and hopes to be publishing eight original series by the end of 2015. “I think it’s being closer to the talent,” Krelitz says. “If you wanted to be a painter in the early 20th century, you went to Paris. “Portland is the mecca for comics. I’m looking to build something here because this is a true artists’ community.” Heavy Metal debuted — with the tagline, “The adult illustrated fantasy magazine” — in 1977 and has long made waves with provocative cover art and comics that betray no fear of sex, violence or robots. “Heavy Metal was my first exposure to all the cartoonists of Europe, to Moebius, (Jacques) Tardi, and (Alejandro) Jodorowsky,” says Steve Lieber, a cartoonist at Portland’s Periscope Studio. “The possibilities in variation and artistic voice hadn’t occurred to me until I saw what those artists could do.” Krelitz, a film producer, and David Boxenbaum, the co-founder of A&M/Octone Records, bought the magazine last year from Kevin Eastman, who continues as publisher. As Variety noted last January, Krelitz and Boxenbaum plan to develop films, television series, and music, print and digital projects under the Heavy Metal brand. “We’re looking at(comics) properties in the same way we look at television and film,” says Krelitz, who attended Wizard World Portland last weekend. “We have amuch better economic model than anyone will offer in the marketplace. We have a merchandizing company that’s one of the biggest in the world. Not only are we not going to fleece you to get your self-published book, we’re going to help your brand building.” Heavy Metal launched its monthly comics line with “Hoax Hunters,” a former Image title written by Michael Moreci and Steve Seeley. “We’re creating our own Heavy Metal universe,” Krelitz says, promising that the announcement of forthcoming titles would have “a shock-wave effect.” “What I’m offering to creators is that if you have an original idea that’s cool and hip and edgy, we want to build that as a brand,” he said. “Beyond the comics. Marvel and DC are relying on time-tested characters. We’re less concerned about superheroes. That’s not who we are. We’re about innovative sci-fi. “We’re the Kurt Vonnegut of comics.” The power of the brand has been quite durable over the years. “Heavy Metal has always been the cool way to check out the French artists that no one else was translating and bringing to America,” says Andy Johnson at Cosmic Monkey, a retail shop on Northeast Sandy. “It gave Moebius and Richard Corben an audience. Milo Manara? Heavy Metal is where I first saw Milo Manara, and my life has been a wreck ever since.” “That was a deciding moment in your life, when you bought your first Heavy Metal,” Krelitz says. “The world was a bigger place. It was like seeing your first R-rated movie. You weren’t a kid anymore. There was no turning back.” Krelitz and Boxenbaum want the comics’ line to arrive with similar impact. “This year alone, eight original series,” Krelitz says. “Next year, we’ll add another 12. Upwards of 50 over the next five years. We’re positioning to be a premier publisher.”
• sduin@oregonian.com 503-221-8597; @steveduin
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2015 20:38:07 GMT -5
(Psylocke's development, before they turned her into a ninja) You had me with this. You could have only said this, and I would be thrilled that someone else actually agrees with me. I haven't read a TON of Betsy since they turned in her into a ninja, but what little I have read makes me practically cry for Betsy Braddock that once was.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2015 2:45:06 GMT -5
That's pretty much the strapline for "we didn't know what to do with this character" - "um... hey! let's make X a ninja!"
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2015 7:39:47 GMT -5
That's pretty much the strapline for "we didn't know what to do with this character" - "um... hey! let's make X a ninja!" Poor Betsy. She has grossly been done wrong by Marvel. But aren't they changing her now for the better? I wouldn't know, I don't read enough x-related things anymore.
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Post by the4thpip on Jan 29, 2015 7:45:54 GMT -5
That's pretty much the strapline for "we didn't know what to do with this character" - "um... hey! let's make X a ninja!" Poor Betsy. She has grossly been done wrong by Marvel. But aren't they changing her now for the better? I wouldn't know, I don't read enough x-related things anymore. Betsy is currently on the all-female cast X-Men, and shares the team with 2 other telepaths (Rachel and Monet), so she does not get a lot of moments.
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