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Post by spoon on May 25, 2015 20:07:59 GMT -5
I think the first 24 issues of his WCA run are really underrated, mainly because of the awful Al Milgrom art. It was kinda tolerable because of the Joe Sinnott inking, which gave Milgrom's art a classic feel. The only good issue artwise of the ones I've read is the one inked by Kyle Baker. Yes, I'd agree with the thesis. Now granted, a lot of Engelhart's 70s comics (and 70s Marvel in general) are comics that I've only read once. I was born in 1979, so I'm playing catch-up reading that stuff. But in many series, whether it's Captain America, Avengers, Hulk, or Doctor Strange, Englehart is a marked improvement over whomever he follows. Some of those don't sound appealing in theory (like the level of focus on Mantis in Avengers), but when I actually read them, I enjoy them. The ironic part is that the Englehart/Rogers run of Detective is what Englehart seems to brag about the most, but I don't see what's so earth-shattering about it. The Englehart/Staton run on Green Lantern/GLC is one of my all-time favorite comic runs.
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Post by tolworthy on May 26, 2015 3:41:10 GMT -5
I am VERY fond of Steve Englehart's '70s work. His '80s work can go sit on a pole and rotate. I swear, it's like he had a stroke and never told anyone or something.I think a stroke is a good analogy, in that one side of him stopped working. Another metaphor is that in the 1980s he had to write with one hand tied behind his back. Englehart's best 1970s comics felt real and exciting because they changed with the real world. His Captain America referred to then-current events and people, his Dr Strange kept evolving and changing, and even his Hulk stories conspicuously referred to the current date. But in the 1980s it was understood that you don't refer to current events or dates too closely. He confirmed that to me via email. In my opinion Marvel policy tied his stories in a strait jacket. They could no longer be as free, relevant, changing, or as fun. In my opinion.
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Post by paulie on May 29, 2015 9:33:15 GMT -5
I am VERY fond of Steve Englehart's '70s work. His '80s work can go sit on a pole and rotate. I swear, it's like he had a stroke and never told anyone or something.I think a stroke is a good analogy, in that one side of him stopped working. Another metaphor is that in the 1980s he had to write with one hand tied behind his back. Englehart's best 1970s comics felt real and exciting because they changed with the real world. His Captain America referred to then-current events and people, his Dr Strange kept evolving and changing, and even his Hulk stories conspicuously referred to the current date. But in the 1980s it was understood that you don't refer to current events or dates too closely. He confirmed that to me via email. In my opinion Marvel policy tied his stories in a strait jacket. They could no longer be as free, relevant, changing, or as fun. In my opinion. What do you think of his FF run? He had both arms tied behind his back, a sack thrown over his head, and then he was dunked underwater for that one. But I still like it better than Byrne's good, but over-hyped run.
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Post by tolworthy on May 31, 2015 2:32:41 GMT -5
What do you think of his FF run? He had both arms tied behind his back, a sack thrown over his head, and then he was dunked underwater for that one. But I still like it better than Byrne's good, but over-hyped run. I loved it. To be fair, that is partly because I see the FF as a single continuous story. I care about these characters as friends. Byrne tried to reboot them and it felt like somebody had turned my friends into zombies. But Englehart's run just felt so right. The stainless one only had twelve issues that were not mired in editorial interference, and those were superb in my opinion. As standalone issues they were wonderful: they include one of my favourite annuals (20), an issue where the Thing finally beats the Hulk (320), an issue where all cosmic truth is explained (319), and more. But even better to me was that he moved the story forwards. When Jack Kirby left the book Reed and Sue were trying to set up a separate home, Johnny was maturing fast, and Crystal saved the day every issue. We then had twenty years when nothing really moved forwards, then Englehart came and carried on where Kirby left off. I'm not pretending that Englehart was as good as Kirby, but I had been waiting for this for so long!!! I think he made some mistakes of course - especially in not having a plan for what Reed and Sue would do when they left. That oversight turned out to be fatal. Fans and editors panicked, progress was banned, and the rest is history. But I suppose it would have been very hard to get right. Kirby gave us a model for how to get it right in his classic run: he had three sub-teams with there concurrent storylines. I wish Englehart had done that with the Ben team and then crossing back and forth to the Reed-Sue-Franklin team. But maybe only Kirby could have pulled that off. Still, we were going somewhere at last. Lately I've even come to appreciate the "John Harkness" phase as well. Oh boy was that ever prophetic! A superb run, in my opinion. I prefer it to Byrne's run for several reasons, and I did enjoy Byrne's run. Of course, I also prefer Moench's run to Byrne's, and that is a controversial view.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on May 31, 2015 13:59:26 GMT -5
Here's the fan-voted Greatest Steve Englehart stories ever... goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2010/05/04/the-greatest-steve-englehart-stories-ever-told/A good overview - I'm not so into the top two - His Batman didn't do much for me after Night of the Staker and the artistic roulette and pages and pages and pages of exposition knocked Celestial Madonna down a couple pegs... AND it was missing his creator owned Coyote series that he did for Epic, which I loved... But overall a really solid overview.
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Post by coke & comics on May 31, 2015 16:07:42 GMT -5
Here's the fan-voted Greatest Steve Englehart stories ever... goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2010/05/04/the-greatest-steve-englehart-stories-ever-told/A good overview - I'm not so into the top two - His Batman didn't do much for me after Night of the Staker and the artistic roulette and pages and pages and pages of exposition knocked Celestial Madonna down a couple pegs... AND it was missing his creator owned Coyote series that he did for Epic, which I loved... But overall a really solid overview. Odd that Brian chose not to include any issue numbers.
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