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Post by Icctrombone on Jul 23, 2015 22:59:12 GMT -5
I guess it was never intended as an upgrade to the real Superman, Just a storyline wrapped around a mystery of who of the 3 people was the real Superman.
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Post by fanboystranger on Jul 23, 2015 23:32:44 GMT -5
Here's one thing I've never understood ever since first hearing about it on the internet a while back: what's the point of Cyborg Superman? He's already Superman, adding machine parts isn't going to make him any more powerful or scary or whatever he's supposed to be compared to the original. That's never made any sense to me. He was a cyborg first, then discovered the Kryptonian birthing matrix that created the Eradicator.
Hey, I didn't say it was a good explanation...
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Post by dupersuper on Jul 24, 2015 2:42:12 GMT -5
Here's one thing I've never understood ever since first hearing about it on the internet a while back: what's the point of Cyborg Superman? He's already Superman, adding machine parts isn't going to make him any more powerful or scary or whatever he's supposed to be compared to the original. That's never made any sense to me. Well, it was originally near-indestructible Kryptonian metal, and he can transfer his consciousness to other machinery, so that's handy...plus his arms turn into laser cannons... |
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Post by dupersuper on Jul 24, 2015 2:43:00 GMT -5
I guess it was never intended as an upgrade to the real Superman, Just a storyline wrapped around a mystery of who of the 3 people was the real Superman. 4 (Cyborg Superman, Eradicator, Steel and Superboy). |
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Post by dupersuper on Jul 24, 2015 2:44:39 GMT -5
Here's one thing I've never understood ever since first hearing about it on the internet a while back: what's the point of Cyborg Superman? He's already Superman, adding machine parts isn't going to make him any more powerful or scary or whatever he's supposed to be compared to the original. That's never made any sense to me. He was a cyborg first, then discovered the Kryptonian birthing matrix that created the Eradicator.
Hey, I didn't say it was a good explanation...
Actually, he was a disembodied consciousness first, then found the birthing matrix created thousands of years after the Eradicator. |
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Post by fanboystranger on Jul 24, 2015 6:50:30 GMT -5
He was a cyborg first, then discovered the Kryptonian birthing matrix that created the Eradicator.
Hey, I didn't say it was a good explanation...
Actually, he was a disembodied consciousness first, then found the birthing matrix created thousands of years after the Eradicator. I knew it was something like that. In any event, he needs to project his conciousness into something machine-based as that's what his original power was. |
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Post by DE Sinclair on Jul 24, 2015 8:12:27 GMT -5
Here's one thing I've never understood ever since first hearing about it on the internet a while back: what's the point of Cyborg Superman? He's already Superman, adding machine parts isn't going to make him any more powerful or scary or whatever he's supposed to be compared to the original. That's never made any sense to me. It was during the "Reign of the Supermen" after the death of Superman. He was one of the four supposed possible reincarnation of Superman. His shtick was that he was the original Superman fixed and brought back to life with cyborg parts, which made him one of only two that were somewhat believable that they could've been the original (along with the Eradicator version). As to why for creative reasons, half-man/half-machine has always been a staple of sci-fi & comics and made a suitably creepy visual. They were trying for a variety of tried & true sci-fi tropes with the 4 replacements (brought back as emotionless alien, cyborg, clone, & soul moving to a new body).
EDIT: I see others already commented before me, so sorry if I duplicated too much.
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Post by Nowhere Man on Jul 24, 2015 11:34:28 GMT -5
I don't get Kelley Jones' art on Batman. His Batman is hands down my least favorite interpretation of the character. His Sandman work was great, as I'm sure any horror story would be given his style, but his Batman work just repels me.
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Jul 24, 2015 11:40:13 GMT -5
When I started with comics, Jones was on Batman. At the time I started with it, and LOTDK. I found myself really liking LOTDK better, not just the art though. Jones has never really been to my liking at all. Especially with the Batman/Dracula stories. There are other horror/macabre artists I would have thought more to my liking to do it. Still, my major complaint with Kelly would be the same as Kirby or McFarlane ... it's their human faces that really turn me off to their work. Jones draws excellent Aliens in Hive, but his humans are almost just as scary. He has a good handle on the mood of horror/macabre scenery, but I just can't warm up to that one thing. I think the only person who at one time I made the same complaint, that I have warmed up to is Mike Mignola.
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Post by batlaw on Jul 24, 2015 11:51:43 GMT -5
When I started with comics, Jones was on Batman. At the time I started with it, and LOTDK. I found myself really liking LOTDK better, not just the art though. Jones has never really been to my liking at all. Especially with the Batman/Dracula stories. There are other horror/macabre artists I would have thought more to my liking to do it. Still, my major complaint with Kelly would be the same as Kirby or McFarlane ... it's their human faces that really turn me off to their work. Jones draws excellent Aliens in Hive, but his humans are almost just as scary. He has a good handle on the mood of horror/macabre scenery, but I just can't warm up to that one thing. I think the only person who at one time I made the same complaint, that I have warmed up to is Mike Mignola. I liked his stuff well enough out of the gate. It was different and interesting and worked well for the projects he first premiered in like Red Rain. But he quickly became overused and his style didnt compliment the mainstream monthlies imo. |
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Post by fanboystranger on Jul 24, 2015 18:37:35 GMT -5
I used to dislike Kelley Jones' art, but I turned around on it when he illustrated Steve Seagle's The Crusades. His distortions kinda annoyed me for years, but they just clicked for me on The Crusades. For example, when he was drawing the loud-mouthed shockjock Antoine Marx during his show, he would emphasize his mouth, often drawing it several sizes too big for the rest of body, focusing the down his throat, or drawing attention to it in any manner he could. When Marx was just being a regular guy, he drew more attention to his eyes, focusing on a sadness and kinda loser-ness he had. Or The Knight, who was never quite depicted the same way twice because everything about him was hearsay and conjecture. It was an interesting use of Jones' technique that I didn't really see in most of his other work until I really studied what he was doing in The Crusades.
Really good series, too. Starts out a bit too slow, as was the style of the Vertigo books around that time, but really picks up around the end of its first year. Unfortunately, that slow start meant that we wouldn't get a full second year.
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Post by berkley on Jul 25, 2015 2:45:35 GMT -5
When I first saw Kelly Jones's Batman I immediately thought that he'd made an error in judgement: Bernie Wrightson had already taken the Neal Adams Batman and exaggerated it just a shade to fit in with his personal drawing style and with the horror milieu of the Wein/Wrightson Swamp Thing. It looked to me as if Jones had taken the Wrightson Batman and decided to exaggerate it even more, under the mistaken belief that, for example, if when Wrightson lengthened the ears of Batman's mask just a tad the effect was so cool, stretching them out like antennae would be even more cool.
Nope. doesn't work like that.
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Post by DubipR on Jul 25, 2015 6:39:44 GMT -5
Jim Lee is a guy I've never understood the love for. He's OK, but very pedestrian... he makes me about as excited as guys like Ron Frenz and Al Milgrom (who I like alot more than Scott and a few others)... they don't make me buy a book, but I feel confident I won't DISLIKE it. I loathe Jim Lee with a passion. The best work Jim Lee EVER did was Punisher War Journal #1 and 2 and he was tracing over Carl Potts' layouts. The man's work hasn't changed in over 25 years. Still static, flat and hackneyed on every page. Scott Williams is a horrible inker to flatten out the pages even more...any more flat they'll be concave. And the best part is Jim Lee knows this and thanked me for my honesty. I will give him his due in the role he's played in the history of comics, but as an artist he's effing terrible. |
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Jul 25, 2015 8:16:05 GMT -5
When I first saw Kelly Jones's Batman I immediately thought that he'd made an error in judgement: Bernie Wrightson had already taken the Neal Adams Batman and exaggerated it just a shade to fit in with his personal drawing style and with the horror milieu of the Wein/Wrightson Swamp Thing. It looked to me as if Jones had taken the Wrightson Batman and decided to exaggerate it even more, under the mistaken belief that, for example, if when Wrightson lengthened the ears of Batman's mask just a tad the effect was so cool, stretching them out like antennae would be even more cool. Nope. doesn't work like that. And to me Wrightson despite being suited to horror/macabre comes out on top than any other because he can fit the non-horror into his style. He can draw a grotesque creature from hell and it's chasing a beautiful woman. At least with just pencils and inks medium I don't think there's anyone that accomplished. Since I first saw Wrightson's work he's always the standard by which I look at others. Though that's not very fair. :-) |
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Post by earl on Aug 9, 2015 18:35:03 GMT -5
Love it or hate it, I do appreciate that Kelley Jones does have his own style. It perhaps isn't to everyone's tastes but it's definitely not middle of the road for mainstream comics artwork. His earlier stuff is more in the Zeck/Golden (aka nu-Neal Adams) style. Obviously Jones and Doug Moench seemed to be a fairly simpatico comic team, they did quite a few good comics together.
While obviously Bernie Wrightson's style is in there, I think Jones is fairly on his own ground. I kind of think it could have been how far out Sienkiewicz was getting that led Jones to start breaking down style rules. I'd figure Mignola's style also might have creeped into Jones work some too. Jones uses a ton of black in some of his Batman pages.
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