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Post by wildfire2099 on Jul 14, 2015 12:48:33 GMT -5
So, pakehafulla over in that 'what have you read' thread gave me an idea.
What stories/comics just completely escape you, despite being sought after/acclaimed/revered by everyone else?
To jump to mind for me, one classic, and one modern.
Classic: The Celestial Madonna story. I HATE Mantis with a great passion, and Swordsman and Moondragon didn't do much for me either... the plot was OK, I guess, but with the spotlight on characters I just cringed to see it just pushes it into the 'Ugh' category for me.
Modern: Anything by Jonathan Hickman: I posted this before, but I'll never forgive Hickman for ruining the Avengers, and now apparently the whole darn Marvel universe. He clearly had a LSH story (or perhaps a JLA story) in mind that he poked and twisted until it sorta fit into Marvel... then it exploded. Even his FF, while OK, went totally off the rails at the end. I'll give him credit for Valeria Richards (who I really like) but that's it. I tried East of West, and found it nonsensical, decompressed garbage. I think at this point the only way I'd read a book with his name on it would be if it was Iron Man, and even then I might skip it.
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Post by terence1965 on Jul 14, 2015 13:10:23 GMT -5
Busiek's Kang story. I've always found Busiek to be a middling writer, but his Kang story was a real low note for me. It was interminable, and in the midst of it he dragged up the sorry carcass of the Ms Marvel 'rape' storyline from over 20 years ago for what seemed to be no real reason.
Anything, and I mean anything, written by Bendis.
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Post by DE Sinclair on Jul 14, 2015 13:53:46 GMT -5
So, pakehafulla over in that 'what have you read' thread gave me an idea. What stories/comics just completely escape you, despite being sought after/acclaimed/revered by everyone else? To jump to mind for me, one classic, and one modern. Classic: The Celestial Madonna story. I HATE Mantis with a great passion, and Swordsman and Moondragon didn't do much for me either... the plot was OK, I guess, but with the spotlight on characters I just cringed to see it just pushes it into the 'Ugh' category for me. Modern: Anything by Jonathan Hickman: I posted this before, but I'll never forgive Hickman for ruining the Avengers, and now apparently the whole darn Marvel universe. He clearly had a LSH story (or perhaps a JLA story) in mind that he poked and twisted until it sorta fit into Marvel... then it exploded. Even his FF, while OK, went totally off the rails at the end. I'll give him credit for Valeria Richards (who I really like) but that's it. I tried East of West, and found it nonsensical, decompressed garbage. I think at this point the only way I'd read a book with his name on it would be if it was Iron Man, and even then I might skip it. As to the Celestial Madonna story, if you don't like the characters, there's not much anyone can say to redeem them for you. For what it's worth, they were all portrayed to be unlikable to a great extent. Mantis was stuck up, egotistical, and tried to jump from man to man for her own advantage. Swordsman was a love struck idiot and a former villain who failed at being a hero more often than he succeeded. Moondragon was incredibly egotistical with delusions of godhood. But these were characterizations in heroes that you didn't see often, if at all, at the time. And who would have guessed that Mantis with her trashy actions and supposed background would end up as any sort of Madonna? Plus Kang's continuing attacks finally answered the question, "If he's a time traveler why does he wait so long before attacking again? Why doesn't he spend some time in the future, then come back to right after he left the last time?"
The whole story also tied together the ancient war between the Kree & the Skrulls, the Blue Area of the Moon, the Priests of Pama, the original Human Torch, Kang/Rama-Tut/Immortus, the unexplained malfunctions that had been plaguing the Vision, as well as explained the mysterious thing that the Ant-Man had discovered in his examination of the Vision back in the Kree-Skrull War. A whole lot going on.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Jul 14, 2015 15:00:10 GMT -5
So, pakehafulla over in that 'what have you read' thread gave me an idea. What stories/comics just completely escape you, despite being sought after/acclaimed/revered by everyone else? To jump to mind for me, one classic, and one modern. Classic: The Celestial Madonna story. I HATE Mantis with a great passion, and Swordsman and Moondragon didn't do much for me either... the plot was OK, I guess, but with the spotlight on characters I just cringed to see it just pushes it into the 'Ugh' category for me. Modern: Anything by Jonathan Hickman: I posted this before, but I'll never forgive Hickman for ruining the Avengers, and now apparently the whole darn Marvel universe. He clearly had a LSH story (or perhaps a JLA story) in mind that he poked and twisted until it sorta fit into Marvel... then it exploded. Even his FF, while OK, went totally off the rails at the end. I'll give him credit for Valeria Richards (who I really like) but that's it. I tried East of West, and found it nonsensical, decompressed garbage. I think at this point the only way I'd read a book with his name on it would be if it was Iron Man, and even then I might skip it. Hickman is full of BIG ideas that never seem to pay off. I find that I usually like his work on a book at the beginning and just gradually get really bored with it as time goes on. |
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Post by gothos on Jul 14, 2015 15:37:52 GMT -5
I gave Allred's regular MADMAN comic a try for the first 5-6 issues, thinking that the nice art would lead to a story. I gave up and can't even remember anything I read in it. Even a single mediocre issue of Baron's BADGER oozes with more innovative lunacy than anything I've seen from Allred-- with the possible exception of the BROTHER POWER issue Allred did.
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Post by Randle-El on Jul 14, 2015 15:54:05 GMT -5
Grant Morrison
The Dark Knight Returns
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Crimebuster
CCF Podcast Guru
Making comics!
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Post by Crimebuster on Jul 14, 2015 16:12:29 GMT -5
Busiek's Kang story. I've always found Busiek to be a middling writer, but his Kang story was a real low note for me. It was interminable, and in the midst of it he dragged up the sorry carcass of the Ms Marvel 'rape' storyline from over 20 years ago for what seemed to be no real reason. One of the best Avengers stories of all time in my opinion. The Ms. Marvel stuff wasn't for no reason, though addressing it certainly was iffy. But it directly led to Scarlet Centurion betraying Kang due to his feelings for her, which led to Kang essentially giving up on the whole conquest plan. It was the key to the storyline. Anything, and I mean anything, written by Bendis. Now you're making sense again!  |
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Post by Hoosier X on Jul 14, 2015 16:18:12 GMT -5
The Long Halloween
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Post by fanboystranger on Jul 14, 2015 16:36:08 GMT -5
The Walking Dead. I can see the craft there and I've always liked Charlie Adlard's art, but everytime I try to break into the series, I'm struck with the idea that I've read it before in better forms. Actually, most of Kirkman's work is like that for me.
The work of Dan Clowes. Again, I can see the genius in it, but it just doesn't work for me. For a while, I thought it was because I started with Like a Velvet Glove Cast in Iron, which is not an easy book thematically or in a storytelling sense, but even after trying David Boring, Ghost World, and Ice Haven, I still don't get it. I'm glad that work exists and I'm glad that people revere it so much, but it's just not something I really appreciate, I guess.
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Post by fanboystranger on Jul 14, 2015 16:42:37 GMT -5
Modern: Anything by Jonathan Hickman: I posted this before, but I'll never forgive Hickman for ruining the Avengers, and now apparently the whole darn Marvel universe. He clearly had a LSH story (or perhaps a JLA story) in mind that he poked and twisted until it sorta fit into Marvel... then it exploded. Even his FF, while OK, went totally off the rails at the end. I'll give him credit for Valeria Richards (who I really like) but that's it. I tried East of West, and found it nonsensical, decompressed garbage. I think at this point the only way I'd read a book with his name on it would be if it was Iron Man, and even then I might skip it. I really liked Hickman's stuff when he did Nightly News, Pax Romana, and Transhuman, which I felt all had a true original vision, particularly in a design sense. I started to notice the cracks when he started writing more for Marvel. I think my biggest problem with Hickman's work is that so much of it is just riffing on '80s independent comics and Euro comics that I've already read, most of which are far better than the work he produces. My eyes bug out of my head when I see someone call him one of the most original writers in comics. |
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Post by Icctrombone on Jul 14, 2015 16:47:03 GMT -5
Busiek's Kang story. I've always found Busiek to be a middling writer, but his Kang story was a real low note for me. It was interminable, and in the midst of it he dragged up the sorry carcass of the Ms Marvel 'rape' storyline from over 20 years ago for what seemed to be no real reason. One of the best Avengers stories of all time in my opinion. The Ms. Marvel stuff wasn't for no reason, though addressing it certainly was iffy. But it directly led to Scarlet Centurion betraying Kang due to his feelings for her, which led to Kang essentially giving up on the whole conquest plan. It was the key to the storyline. I thought that storyline was crappy but on my second read, I thought it wasn't bad. One of the Best Avengers Stories? Not so fast there , Scott... |
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Post by Icctrombone on Jul 14, 2015 16:50:06 GMT -5
EC Comics. I have read some stuff and I though, Meh.
Conan. That series lasted quite a few years and was a factor in keeping Marvel alive back in the 70's but I just never saw what was special about it. Seems like the same story over and over again.
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Post by terence1965 on Jul 14, 2015 17:08:09 GMT -5
Busiek's Kang story. I've always found Busiek to be a middling writer, but his Kang story was a real low note for me. It was interminable, and in the midst of it he dragged up the sorry carcass of the Ms Marvel 'rape' storyline from over 20 years ago for what seemed to be no real reason. One of the best Avengers stories of all time in my opinion. The Ms. Marvel stuff wasn't for no reason, though addressing it certainly was iffy. But it directly led to Scarlet Centurion betraying Kang due to his feelings for her, which led to Kang essentially giving up on the whole conquest plan. It was the key to the storyline. Anything, and I mean anything, written by Bendis. Now you're making sense again! Now, I'll admit that I may well have missed that nuance to the culmination of the Kang storyline - probably because I'd pretty much given up on it before the end - but if it was really built around the Scarlet Centurion's weird icky feelings for Ms. Marvel then I am pretty much predisposed to despise it even more. In fact, it was my understanding that Carol had pretty much dealt with all the s**t from the infamous Avengers #200, but Busiek felt fit to harp on it during his run (damaging the character further with her drink problem and subsequent court martial). Nah, Busiek pretty much falls into the camp of....I just don't get it.  (and the X-Men would have been spared decades of grief if he'd never suggested the Phoenix retcon, so that's another black mark against him  |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2015 17:24:24 GMT -5
Alan Moore's work. I don't hate it, but it doesn't stand out as special to me either. I don't have any desire to go out of my way and track more of his work down.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2015 17:25:30 GMT -5
EC Comics. I have read some stuff and I though, Meh. Conan. That series lasted quite a few years and was a factor in keeping Marvel alive back in the 70's but I just never saw what was special about it. Seems like the same story over and over again. I like Conan, but it is a lot of the same story over and over. Literally. I've read the same exact adaptations in SSOC as I have in the Dark Horse series. |
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(and the X-Men would have been spared decades of grief if he'd never suggested the Phoenix retcon, so that's another black mark against him 