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Post by Icctrombone on Oct 15, 2015 10:26:44 GMT -5
That's pretty weak, DuPont. You're asserting that the writer is a hypocrite and every single one of your examples of alleged hypocrisy refers to the art.
And there was a lot more to Simone's critiques than the objectification of women. I would guess that Simone was frequently frustrated by the art.
And where are these panels from? It looks like a lot of promotional stuff and covers, with very few images from the stories. If you're trying to indict the writer, I think your critique would be more persuasive if you focused your evidence on material that the writer worked on.
I apologize for resurrecting this old comment but this sequence was a dream/imagination by the Penguin. This necessitated the over the top depictions of the womens body parts. |
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Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on Oct 15, 2015 19:29:11 GMT -5
Alan Moore's Lost Girls... I mean, who really does that with a horse? I love Moores stuff, but I'm afraid to buy Lost Girls... The story is divided in 24 chapters, each one using a different narrative technique, each technique original within comics. This simply is one of the best comic book ever produced, stunning work. |
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Post by Icctrombone on Oct 15, 2015 20:16:47 GMT -5
I love Moores stuff, but I'm afraid to buy Lost Girls... The story is divided in 24 chapters, each one using a different narrative technique, each technique original within comics. This simply is one of the best comic book ever produced, stunning work. I think you left out the XXX content. |
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Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on Oct 16, 2015 4:26:55 GMT -5
Yes, but it's irrelevant to my argument, isn't it?
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Post by tingramretro on Oct 16, 2015 7:40:17 GMT -5
I love Moores stuff, but I'm afraid to buy Lost Girls... The story is divided in 24 chapters, each one using a different narrative technique, each technique original within comics. This simply is one of the best comic book ever produced, stunning work. I agree. Powerful stuff, too. |
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Post by tingramretro on Oct 16, 2015 7:45:03 GMT -5
Meh. To care about a sacrifice, you have to care about the character. There are plenty out there that were moving... that just wasn't one of them for me. Agree with this. Swordsman wasn't a compelling character. The whole Celestial saga fell flat for me, maybe because the art was average to poor. Totally disagree. Even now, this remains my favourite Avengers storyline ever, and it was a big part of why I started reading Marvel in the first place. The Swordsman is a character who has always been quite special to me, he was the first comic character I ever really felt for as a kid because he was just so much a victim of life, and his death was incredibly moving for me. The fact that his dying words were a declaration that he "just didn't count" never fails to bring a lump to my throat. |
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ziza9
Junior Member
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Post by ziza9 on Oct 17, 2015 1:32:31 GMT -5
The Kree Skrull War. I didn't read it when it originally came out. When I did get to it I just kept wanting more of the actual war. Aside from the Neal Adams Ant Man pages and amazing art, nothing about the story felt very epic to me. Maybe the problem was reading it as a collected edition. I don't really feel it works well like that. Anyway, mainly, I think from the title and hype I expected more all out battles and a tighter story focused on that singular conflict. Also while I loved and still re-read Roy's All Star Squadron, this was a chore to get through in one sitting. Again, maybe due to the collected format.
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Post by Icctrombone on Oct 17, 2015 6:02:13 GMT -5
The Kree Skrull War. I didn't read it when it originally came out. When I did get to it I just kept wanting more of the actual war. Aside from the Neal Adams Ant Man pages and amazing art, nothing about the story felt very epic to me. Maybe the problem was reading it as a collected edition. I don't really feel it works well like that. Anyway, mainly, I think from the title and hype I expected more all out battles and a tighter story focused on that singular conflict. Also while I loved and still re-read Roy's All Star Squadron, this was a chore to get through in one sitting. Again, maybe due to the collected format. You bring up an interesting point about reading it in collected form. Back in the day, reading a story and waiting a month built anticipation and suspense. I still think the Kree Skull War is great because it was the first of it's kind of story. I read somewhere that Neal Adams wanted for this storyline to be an 18 issue "War" , but it lasted 9 issues and it can read like it happened fast. Roy's AS Squadron was REALLY wordy, and I could see it being a chore. I was captivated by all the Golden age Heroes that I was introduced to. I thought it was great for the first 30 issues or so , but then the Crisis came along and really poor artists began to draw the book. It killed it for me. |
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Post by Ozymandias on Oct 17, 2015 7:25:05 GMT -5
Back in the day, reading a story and waiting a month built anticipation and suspense. I still think the Kree Skull War is great because it was the first of it's kind of story. I read somewhere that Neal Adams wanted for this storyline to be an 18 issue "War" , but it lasted 9 issues and it can read like it happened fast. I'm reading this right now (up to #94), at a rate of 1-2 comics per day. It can't compare to waiting a full month between issues, but it's not exactly TPB reading pace, either. In any case, it reads like this wasn't planned, from the ground up, as a multiple part saga. The first three issues are pretty much self-contained, and #92 looks like an afterthought. That said, it was at that point, that the story really got interesting. The page were Rick ponders about the nature of contemporary heroes, is the first in-panel reflection about the genre I can recall, and an indication that the Bronze Age had already started. |
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Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on Oct 17, 2015 7:45:58 GMT -5
I just don't get it : Barry Windsor Smith on Conan. People seem to marvel at it, I just find it painstakingly ugly... The anatomuy is mostly terrible, the facial expresions clumsy and all this terrible hatching... No way is this good.  Ugly!!!  This is okay in a TMNT comic, but Conan??? And what is going on with his armpits?!  On surface this looks ok, but nothing spectacular, but seriously, that right arm on the third panel, stings the eyes!  "I'll cram down as many details I can to distract from the fact my anatomy/perspective makes no sense anywhere and I can't draw a bush with leaves for the life of me or a treeline for the mater"  Now this is almost ok, except for the broken neck of the lady and again the gly random hatching.  Seriously? This is beautiful??? Sorry if this seem a ad confrontational, but this has always bothered me. I don't enjoy Buscema's Conan that much either, but at least it's competant and craftfull. And for the matter, those pictures I took as an axemple where just amongst the first few ones to come up with a "barry windsor smith Conan" google. So was this just unlucky? |
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Post by Ozymandias on Oct 17, 2015 9:14:12 GMT -5
The only example that I would agree, looks bad, is the 3rd one, from CTB #23. BWS officially penciled that one, but I doubt he did more than the layouts.
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Post by JKCarrier on Oct 17, 2015 10:35:44 GMT -5
The Kree Skrull War. I didn't read it when it originally came out. When I did get to it I just kept wanting more of the actual war. Aside from the Neal Adams Ant Man pages and amazing art, nothing about the story felt very epic to me. Maybe the problem was reading it as a collected edition. I don't really feel it works well like that. Anyway, mainly, I think from the title and hype I expected more all out battles and a tighter story focused on that singular conflict. I like most of the Kree-Skrull War okay, but the ending was a real anti-climax. Granted, there's probably no plausible way for the Avengers to triumph over two giant space armadas, but having Rick Jones spontaneously develop cosmic powers to fix everything was a real let-down. |
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Oct 17, 2015 11:04:58 GMT -5
I think the only thing I've read with Barry's art was Weapon X in Marvel Comics Presents. I'm not a big sword & sorcery fan so there's been no pull to read Conan for me. I liked his work well in Weapon X and there were some covers that were amazing. Which is where I think his strong suit is, much like Linser. But Weapon X maybe the pinnacle of his work, I don't know. But it's still never really drove me to seek out his work. Nor turn my nose up at it if I see him doing pencils on something I'd be interested in the story with.
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Oct 17, 2015 11:08:05 GMT -5
The Kree Skrull War. I didn't read it when it originally came out. When I did get to it I just kept wanting more of the actual war. Aside from the Neal Adams Ant Man pages and amazing art, nothing about the story felt very epic to me. Maybe the problem was reading it as a collected edition. I don't really feel it works well like that. Anyway, mainly, I think from the title and hype I expected more all out battles and a tighter story focused on that singular conflict. I like most of the Kree-Skrull War okay, but the ending was a real anti-climax. Granted, there's probably no plausible way for the Avengers to triumph over two giant space armadas, but having Rick Jones spontaneously develop cosmic powers to fix everything was a real let-down. Rick Jones is a let down in general. :-) I recently read the Capt Marvels I own and the Cosmic Cube affair, and despite my favorite comic writer of all time doing a lot of that storyline I forgot because of Rick how much I enjoyed the original Mar-vell issues. ( Gene Colan helps sway that too.) |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2015 13:04:10 GMT -5
I think the only thing I've read with Barry's art was Weapon X in Marvel Comics Presents. I'm not a big sword & sorcery fan so there's been no pull to read Conan for me. I liked his work well in Weapon X and there were some covers that were amazing. Which is where I think his strong suit is, much like Linser. But Weapon X maybe the pinnacle of his work, I don't know. But it's still never really drove me to seek out his work. Nor turn my nose up at it if I see him doing pencils on something I'd be interested in the story with. I really enjoyed the art he did in Uncanny X-Men #205...I always enjoyed the way he drew Wolverine. I think the original cover is better than the one that was published. Here is the original cover.  |
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