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Post by Icctrombone on Aug 28, 2023 18:08:18 GMT -5
It was cruel. They were pinning up his artwork and making jokes. I heard Ralph Macchio was one of the culprits.
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Post by kirby101 on Aug 28, 2023 19:03:13 GMT -5
It was cruel. They were pinning up his artwork and making jokes. I heard Ralph Macchio was one of the culprits. There were those at Marvel who worked to undermine him. Sticking letters in the books that criticized him. But his work has stood the test of time.
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,042
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Post by Confessor on Aug 28, 2023 19:42:45 GMT -5
It was cruel. They were pinning up his artwork and making jokes. I heard Ralph Macchio was one of the culprits. There were those at Marvel who worked to undermine him. Sticking letters in the books that criticized him. But his work has stood the test of time.
I had no idea about this. That is cruel. He was a giant of the industry on whose shoulders so many others were standing (and I say that as someone who's not always the biggest fan of Kirby's art and later scripting).
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Post by Prince Hal on Aug 28, 2023 20:41:39 GMT -5
It was cruel. They were pinning up his artwork and making jokes. I heard Ralph Macchio was one of the culprits. "When Titans Clash"
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Post by codystarbuck on Aug 28, 2023 22:34:31 GMT -5
It bothered Jack, according to Mark Evanier, and he groused about them filling the letters pages with negative comments, even though they received much positive mail. Jack's main concern, though, was feeding his family and churning out work to meet his quotas, for his page rate. However, it was the main reason he left for animation, in 1978.
You also have to keep in mind that Kirby edited his own books, as part of his deal, which threatened the positions of other editors and editorial assistants. Plus, he got one of the highest page rates, based on his track record. Lot of fuel for professional jealousy, especially from young punks who owed their entire career to working on characters created and developed by either Kirby or Ditko.
Jack got the last laugh. he got paid better for work in animation, got health benefits for his family, had the adoration of fans, at conventions, and got retroactive royalties from DC, while Marvel tried to force him into signing a blanket release to protect the editors and staffers who swiped a large volume of his original art from the company. In the end, Marvel caved on that, too. He also guilted them into a stipend, which continued with Roz, until her death, which Mark Evanier said she made a goal to live as long as possible to soak every dime out of them she could, for as long as she could, for their treatment of Jack. Kirby may have let such things go; but Roz didn't. She was a lioness when it came to protecting Jack and his name. There was a reason she inspired the personality of Big Barda (though Lainie Kazan was the physical part).
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Post by codystarbuck on Aug 28, 2023 22:35:08 GMT -5
It was cruel. They were pinning up his artwork and making jokes. I heard Ralph Macchio was one of the culprits. Mr Miyagi is ashamed!
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Post by kirby101 on Aug 29, 2023 8:04:31 GMT -5
Thanks for that post cody.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Sept 1, 2023 6:07:01 GMT -5
In Mister Miracle #1, Thaddeus Brown informs Scott Free that his only son, Ted, died in Korea.
Later in the series, Ted shows up alive and well after a few years abroad and an unsuccessful career as a promoter. Oberon wrote him about Thaddeus's passing, but the letter took its time getting to him. No mention is made of Ted supposedly being dead himself.
In a later issue we are told that Ted was once "left for dead" in Korea, but it was clearly known that he had ultimately survived since Oberon wrote him that letter.
Was this discrepancy explained in the letters page or elsewhere?
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Post by MWGallaher on Sept 1, 2023 7:28:40 GMT -5
In Mister Miracle #1, Thaddeus Brown informs Scott that his only son, Ted, died in Korea. Later in the series, Ted shows up alive and well after a few years abroad and an unsuccessful career as a promoter. Oberon wrote him about Thaddeus's passing, but the letter took its time getting to him. No mention is made of Ted supposedly being dead himself. In a later issue we are told that Ted was once "left for dead" in Korea, but it was clearly known that he had ultimately survived since Oberon wrote him. Was this discrepancy explained in the letters page or elsewhere? It was. Here's the first letter from the lettercol in issue 13: From issue 10, we learn Oberon had difficulty tracing Ted: And issue 13 shows that Ted was officially declared dead by the army: Piecing it together, when Thaddeus Brown died, his son was officially listed among the deceased. Ted must have resurfaced after his father's death, and Oberon learned about the failed promotion efforts that the "returned from the dead" Ted Brown was undertaking overseas. Oberon tried to contact Ted to inform him of his father's demise, and Ted finally got the message and returned home.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Sept 1, 2023 8:25:06 GMT -5
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Post by foxley on Sept 1, 2023 9:48:08 GMT -5
Von Killowitz? That's a subtle name!
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Post by badwolf on Sept 1, 2023 10:26:25 GMT -5
I want to hear more about this playsuit.
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Post by zaku on Sept 2, 2023 12:51:47 GMT -5
Maybe not many remember it, also because it's a blink-and-lose moment, but Wonder Woman of Earth-1 was also killed in Crisis 1) First of all, exactly (from a narrative point of view) why? Yes I know that shortly after she would have had a reboot, but she would not have been the only one. Not all of the characters that would later be relaunched were killed off. So why her? 2) Were readers at the time as surprised as with Supergirl, or was it common knowledge that there would be a new series dedicated to the amazon? 3) As you know, after Crisis there wasn't immediately a reboot, so, for example, there were references to Supergirl's death like in this story (one of the worst I've ever read) Likewise, were there any references to Wonder Woman's death in any of the stories?
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Post by MWGallaher on Sept 2, 2023 15:44:15 GMT -5
Maybe not many remember it, also because it's a blink-and-lose moment, but Wonder Woman of Earth-1 was also killed in Crisis 1) First of all, exactly (from a narrative point of view) why? Yes I know that shortly after she would have had a reboot, but she would not have been the only one. Not all of the characters that would later be relaunched were killed off. So why her? 2) Were readers at the time as surprised as with Supergirl, or was it common knowledge that there would be a new series dedicated to the amazon? 3) As you know, after Crisis there wasn't immediately a reboot, so, for example, there were references to Supergirl's death like in this story (one of the worst I've ever read) Likewise, were there any references to Wonder Woman's death in any of the stories? As I recall, it was common knowledge that WW's series was rebooting, and that this wasn't a removal of the character from the DCU, just a means of starting from scratch. So it didn't have the impact of Supergirl's demise, which was going to erase her from the continuity. I bought almost everything DC was publishing then, and I don't recall any reference to her demise.
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Post by zaku on Sept 2, 2023 16:04:11 GMT -5
Maybe not many remember it, also because it's a blink-and-lose moment, but Wonder Woman of Earth-1 was also killed in Crisis 1) First of all, exactly (from a narrative point of view) why? Yes I know that shortly after she would have had a reboot, but she would not have been the only one. Not all of the characters that would later be relaunched were killed off. So why her? 2) Were readers at the time as surprised as with Supergirl, or was it common knowledge that there would be a new series dedicated to the amazon? 3) As you know, after Crisis there wasn't immediately a reboot, so, for example, there were references to Supergirl's death like in this story (one of the worst I've ever read) Likewise, were there any references to Wonder Woman's death in any of the stories? As I recall, it was common knowledge that WW's series was rebooting, and that this wasn't a removal of the character from the DCU, just a means of starting from scratch. So it didn't have the impact of Supergirl's demise, which was going to erase her from the continuity. I bought almost everything DC was publishing then, and I don't recall any reference to her demise. Thank you!
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