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Post by codystarbuck on Sept 2, 2023 18:02:03 GMT -5
Technically, Wonder Woman was reduced back to the clay, from whence she was formed, by Hippolyta, before a divine spark brought her to life. The divine spark still kind of existed, but the form was gone. More or less, that spark then inhabits the new clay form fashioned in the new universe, in WW #1. Essentially, she was taken back to her beginning, to be re-started, rather than outright killed, like Supergirl. The Earth-2 Wonder Woman was given a place among the gods of Olympus, along with Steve Trevor. That had a lot to do with people kind of riding with it, especially since she was going to be reborn. It also helped that people knew George Perez was going to be drawing it, as I think that carried more weight them him writing it, as well.
You can have a philosophical debate whether being reduced back to clay constituted death or not; but, she was at least "reincarnated;" whereas, Supergirl and Barry Allen were most definitely dead.
Until he got better and she got a replacement.
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Post by zaku on Sept 3, 2023 4:44:46 GMT -5
I bought almost everything DC was publishing then, and I don't recall any reference to her demise. It seems it was referenced here (I didn't actually read it). In the framing sequence, Hippolyta is grieving for the death of Diana in Crisis. Then at the end of the mini all the universe is reset to the new continuity. Technically, Wonder Woman was reduced back to the clay, from whence she was formed, by Hippolyta, before a divine spark brought her to life. The divine spark still kind of existed, but the form was gone. More or less, that spark then inhabits the new clay form fashioned in the new universe, in WW #1. Essentially, she was taken back to her beginning, to be re-started, rather than outright killed, like Supergirl. The Earth-2 Wonder Woman was given a place among the gods of Olympus, along with Steve Trevor. That had a lot to do with people kind of riding with it, especially since she was going to be reborn. It also helped that people knew George Perez was going to be drawing it, as I think that carried more weight them him writing it, as well. You can have a philosophical debate whether being reduced back to clay constituted death or not; but, she was at least "reincarnated;" whereas, Supergirl and Barry Allen were most definitely dead. Until he got better and she got a replacement. Uhhh I love technical As we know, the DC Universe wasn't immediately rebooted after Crisis. For a while, it existed as a "merged earth" based mostly on Earth-1 (hence there were references to Supergirl's death even after Crisis ended). For example Clark Kent still worked as an anchorman, Lex Luthor was the prototype of the mad scientist but no one remembered the Earth-2 Superman So on this "merged earth" Wonder Woman of Earth-1 was effectively dead (at least for a while).
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Post by scurvydave on Sept 8, 2023 6:15:42 GMT -5
Hi,
This is my first post and probably to nobody’s surprise it’s a request to help me track down a comic from my childhood.
I’m a massive comic nerd and have been for as long as I can remember. I bought a comic from a newsagent in Stevenage in the UK in about 1975/1976. At the time I was reading Marvel UK and Marvel and DC imports - all bought from newsagents and I would have been 8 or 9 years old. This comic wasn’t Marvel or DC as I remember thinking at the time that it was a bit more ‘grown up’. I think it might have been a horror comic, possibly a poster magazine. It was certainly magazine size rather than US comic size. I don’t think it was Eerie or Creepy or Hammer because it was in colour.
I got it because two of the characters in the story reminded me of my favourite toys of the time - Cyborg and Muton action figures. The story ended with a fight between these two characters. One of them was red and one of them was white. The red one was possibly of organic nature/design so some sort of creature but I think the white one might have been a robot. Possibly. I think there was also an older man and a younger woman in the story and it may have been set in a lab or dungeon of some sort. It was definitely in colour. That’s it. That’s what I remember and it’s been driving me crazy trying to track it down.
Ps. I spend hours reading through the topics here and have found the forum to be one of the friendliest and level-headed forums I’ve ever lurked in.
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Post by Icctrombone on Sept 8, 2023 6:24:05 GMT -5
Hi, This is my first post and probably to nobody’s surprise it’s a request to help me track down a comic from my childhood. I’m a massive comic nerd and have been for as long as I can remember. I bought a comic from a newsagent in Stevenage in the UK in about 1975/1976. At the time I was reading Marvel UK and Marvel and DC imports - all bought from newsagents and I would have been 8 or 9 years old. This comic wasn’t Marvel or DC as I remember thinking at the time that it was a bit more ‘grown up’. I think it might have been a horror comic, possibly a poster magazine. It was certainly magazine size rather than US comic size. I don’t think it was Eerie or Creepy or Hammer because it was in colour. I got it because two of the characters in the story reminded me of my favourite toys of the time - Cyborg and Muton action figures. The story ended with a fight between these two characters. One of them was red and one of them was white. The red one was possibly of organic nature/design so some sort of creature but I think the white one might have been a robot. Possibly. I think there was also an older man and a younger woman in the story and it may have been set in a lab or dungeon of some sort. It was definitely in colour. That’s it. That’s what I remember and it’s been driving me crazy trying to track it down. Ps. I spend hours reading through the topics here and have found the forum to be one of the friendliest and level-headed forums I’ve ever lurked in. Welcome to the forum. I have no clue about what you're looking for because I stayed away from those scary books as a youth, but I'm sure the members here will find the answer. Keep posting over here, we are a friendly group.
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Post by MWGallaher on Sept 8, 2023 6:53:35 GMT -5
Hi, This is my first post and probably to nobody’s surprise it’s a request to help me track down a comic from my childhood. I’m a massive comic nerd and have been for as long as I can remember. I bought a comic from a newsagent in Stevenage in the UK in about 1975/1976. At the time I was reading Marvel UK and Marvel and DC imports - all bought from newsagents and I would have been 8 or 9 years old. This comic wasn’t Marvel or DC as I remember thinking at the time that it was a bit more ‘grown up’. I think it might have been a horror comic, possibly a poster magazine. It was certainly magazine size rather than US comic size. I don’t think it was Eerie or Creepy or Hammer because it was in colour. I got it because two of the characters in the story reminded me of my favourite toys of the time - Cyborg and Muton action figures. The story ended with a fight between these two characters. One of them was red and one of them was white. The red one was possibly of organic nature/design so some sort of creature but I think the white one might have been a robot. Possibly. I think there was also an older man and a younger woman in the story and it may have been set in a lab or dungeon of some sort. It was definitely in colour. That’s it. That’s what I remember and it’s been driving me crazy trying to track it down. Ps. I spend hours reading through the topics here and have found the forum to be one of the friendliest and level-headed forums I’ve ever lurked in. Welcome, scurvydave , and thanks for the kind words. We do pride ourselves on friendliness and level-headedness here! I didn't spot any definitive matches in a quick look over some likely candidates, but old memories can, of course, get details wrong and conflate separate stories. And not knowing just how close a match the characters were to Cyborg and Muton makes it a bit of a challenge, but I did spot one magazine I figured might be worth a look: COMIX INTERNATIONAL was a full-color magazine from the publisher of EERIE and CREEPY, and this issue came out in 1976. It's got a white robot-looking character in one story: ...and a red-clad science fiction character encountering an old man and a girl in a dungeon in a different story:
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,042
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Post by Confessor on Sept 8, 2023 12:34:32 GMT -5
I’m a massive comic nerd and have been for as long as I can remember. I bought a comic from a newsagent in Stevenage in the UK in about 1975/1976. I'm from the UK and live just the other side of Hemel Hempstead, so not far from Stevenage at all! Welcome to the forum! At the time I was reading Marvel UK and Marvel and DC imports - all bought from newsagents and I would have been 8 or 9 years old. This comic wasn’t Marvel or DC as I remember thinking at the time that it was a bit more ‘grown up’. I think it might have been a horror comic, possibly a poster magazine. It was certainly magazine size rather than US comic size. I don’t think it was Eerie or Creepy or Hammer because it was in colour. I have no idea what the comic you're after is off the top of my head, but any colour comics -- for kids adult or kids -- would've been something of a rarity in the UK in the mid-70s, as I'm sure you recall. Most British comics were in black & white, possibly with centre pages in colour a la 2000 AD, or with duo-colour red and black like in the Beano or Dandy. That alone should make it relatively easy to identify, I guess. I wonder if it might've been a copy of an American import mag like Heavy Metal. Never heard of the Cyborg and Muton action figures, but looking on Google I think they kinda look like the Micronauts. Though the Micronauts were only published in the UK as a back-up strip in Marvel UK's Star Wars Weekly from 1979 onwards and in black & white, so it wouldn't be that.
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Post by scurvydave on Sept 8, 2023 14:22:08 GMT -5
Thanks for the warm welcome everyone - I’ll definitely be sticking around.
I think I may have over emphasised the Cyborg/Muton connection - the characters in the comic only vaguely resembled the toys really.
Thanks for the Comix international suggestion M.W. but that isn’t it I’m afraid. I’m pretty sure it wasn’t an anthology and like I mentioned I have a feeling it was actually one of those poster mags that were popular in the UK at the time.
Confessor - as you say this type of comic would have been a very rare purchase at that time in the UK which is why I’m surprised I’m having so much trouble tracking it down. Btw - I’m very aware of the Micronauts from Star Wars weekly. In fact it was your Star Wars thread that led me to this very forum in the first place when I was doing a reread a couple of years ago. (Also, I nearly moved to HH a few years ago but ended up in Essex instead.)
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Post by spoon on Sept 8, 2023 14:31:42 GMT -5
Maybe not many remember it, also because it's a blink-and-lose moment, but Wonder Woman of Earth-1 was also killed in Crisis 1) First of all, exactly (from a narrative point of view) why? Yes I know that shortly after she would have had a reboot, but she would not have been the only one. Not all of the characters that would later be relaunched were killed off. So why her? 2) Were readers at the time as surprised as with Supergirl, or was it common knowledge that there would be a new series dedicated to the amazon? 3) As you know, after Crisis there wasn't immediately a reboot, so, for example, there were references to Supergirl's death like in this story (one of the worst I've ever read) Likewise, were there any references to Wonder Woman's death in any of the stories? As I recall, it was common knowledge that WW's series was rebooting, and that this wasn't a removal of the character from the DCU, just a means of starting from scratch. So it didn't have the impact of Supergirl's demise, which was going to erase her from the continuity. I bought almost everything DC was publishing then, and I don't recall any reference to her demise. Here's a strange bit about the deceptiveness of memory. I started reading comics as a 6-year-old when Crisis was being published. But my memory compresses that immediate post-Crisis time period, so I tend to think of almost all the various reboots/soft reboots/re-numberings like the Perez Wonder Woman, Man of Steel, New Adventures of Batman, etc. as happening quickly on the heels of Crisis, when so many took 6 months, a year, or more to roll out. Plus, I look at the Newstand at Mike's Amazing World of Comics from the immediate post-Crisis period and there's so little I remember reading new off the shelf. I was buying some Green Lantern Corps. My twin brother was buying Blue Beetle. There were sporadic issues of other titles, like a New Teen Titans with Cheshire that my older brother bought. That was around the time we moved, so many we actually weren't buying many comics for several months because we didn't have an LCS and I just glossed over it in my mind. (Contrary to some folks, my earliest comics were actually from a comics shop, although I'm sure I picked up some comics from supermarket/corner store spinner racks once in a while.) I know this isn't what you're getting at, but it looks like Wonder Woman appeared in DC Challenge after she was turned to clay. I think that mini was considered out of continuity rather than something set before COIE #12. Since I was reading an Archive reprinting Charlton Captain Atom stories, I was looking up appearances of the original version of Captain Atom. It was interesting to see that Captain Atom made an appearance in DC Comics Presents that apparently takes place on the merged Earth after Crisis but before his own reboot, even though it came out the month before COIE #12. That would make it a post-Crisis but pre-Man of Steel reboot Superman story.
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Post by MWGallaher on Sept 8, 2023 16:52:06 GMT -5
Thanks for the warm welcome everyone - I’ll definitely be sticking around. I think I may have over emphasised the Cyborg/Muton connection - the characters in the comic only vaguely resembled the toys really. Thanks for the Comix international suggestion M.W. but that isn’t it I’m afraid. I’m pretty sure it wasn’t an anthology and like I mentioned I have a feeling it was actually one of those poster mags that were popular in the UK at the time. OK, I knew it was a longshot! With the implied comparison to Eerie and Creepy, I figured one of the full-color Warren magazines might have been it. I don't know anything about the British poster magazines; the samples I found online didn't have enough comics content to make me think they would accommodate all the elements you remember from the story, and don't have the more adult feel you recalled, which a Warren magazine would indeed have had.
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Post by zaku on Sept 9, 2023 12:27:07 GMT -5
As I recall, it was common knowledge that WW's series was rebooting, and that this wasn't a removal of the character from the DCU, just a means of starting from scratch. So it didn't have the impact of Supergirl's demise, which was going to erase her from the continuity. I bought almost everything DC was publishing then, and I don't recall any reference to her demise. Here's a strange bit about the deceptiveness of memory. I started reading comics as a 6-year-old when Crisis was being published. But my memory compresses that immediate post-Crisis time period, so I tend to think of almost all the various reboots/soft reboots/re-numberings like the Perez Wonder Woman, Man of Steel, New Adventures of Batman, etc. as happening quickly on the heels of Crisis, when so many took 6 months, a year, or more to roll out. Plus, I look at the Newstand at Mike's Amazing World of Comics from the immediate post-Crisis period and there's so little I remember reading new off the shelf. I was buying some Green Lantern Corps. My twin brother was buying Blue Beetle. There were sporadic issues of other titles, like a New Teen Titans with Cheshire that my older brother bought. That was around the time we moved, so many we actually weren't buying many comics for several months because we didn't have an LCS and I just glossed over it in my mind. (Contrary to some folks, my earliest comics were actually from a comics shop, although I'm sure I picked up some comics from supermarket/corner store spinner racks once in a while.) I know this isn't what you're getting at, but it looks like Wonder Woman appeared in DC Challenge after she was turned to clay. I think that mini was considered out of continuity rather than something set before COIE #12. Since I was reading an Archive reprinting Charlton Captain Atom stories, I was looking up appearances of the original version of Captain Atom. It was interesting to see that Captain Atom made an appearance in DC Comics Presents that apparently takes place on the merged Earth after Crisis but before his own reboot, even though it came out the month before COIE #12. That would make it a post-Crisis but pre-Man of Steel reboot Superman story. Just for fun, I looked at the release dates of the first post-crisis appearances of Trinity characters (according to Mikey) So, the last issue of Crisis was on sale December 19, 1985 Superman (Man of steel) - July 10, 1986 Wonder Woman (Wonder Woman v2 #1) - November 6, 1986 Batman (well, is debated but according to Mikey Batman #401 and Detective #568) August 7, 1986 and August 21, 1986 Wow! Almost a year after the end of Crisis for Wonder Woman. They must have been strange and/or exciting months for DC readers. Anyone who lived during that time want to share what it felt like?
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Post by wildfire2099 on Sept 9, 2023 17:43:07 GMT -5
Thanks for the warm welcome everyone - I’ll definitely be sticking around. I think I may have over emphasised the Cyborg/Muton connection - the characters in the comic only vaguely resembled the toys really. Thanks for the Comix international suggestion M.W. but that isn’t it I’m afraid. I’m pretty sure it wasn’t an anthology and like I mentioned I have a feeling it was actually one of those poster mags that were popular in the UK at the time. Confessor - as you say this type of comic would have been a very rare purchase at that time in the UK which is why I’m surprised I’m having so much trouble tracking it down. Btw - I’m very aware of the Micronauts from Star Wars weekly. In fact it was your Star Wars thread that led me to this very forum in the first place when I was doing a reread a couple of years ago. (Also, I nearly moved to HH a few years ago but ended up in Essex instead.) old british comics are definitely not my wheelhouse, but I gave it a shot anyway. I suspect you'll say you're familar with this and it's not it... but how about Captain Scarlet? Seems like the story you described would fit.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 9, 2023 18:58:51 GMT -5
Wow! Almost a year after the end of Crisis for Wonder Woman. They must have been strange and/or exciting months for DC readers. Anyone who lived during that time want to share what it felt like? The months preceding the "official relaunchs" weren't really that strange to me, you could still kind of accept various storylines on a month to month basis even though you knew there had been this other big story event that had implications not fully realized yet. We weren't so coded for "continuity compliance" back then if you will (at least I wasn't). In terms of the "reintroductions" themselves, it was actually a really exciting time initially. Sometimes when I talk about my general dislike for how the post-Crisis DC world evolved, I need to remember to qualify that it wasn't an immediate thing. Byrne and Perez were of course very much at the top of their respective games and coming off massively successful runs on their respective books, so the Superman and Wonder Woman titles really got my attention. The Man of Steel reboot mini already featured one of my favorite characters of all time with Superman, and besides the Byrne creative factor, I kind of liked the premise of a less powerful Kal. Not so much because I subscribed to the notion that his prior power levels led to inherently boring stories, but rather it seemed like a nod to the Golden Age earliest iteration which I had a good deal of affinity for. It was a fun read at the time, even the dual covers for the first issue seemed special (it was of course much more of a rarity back then). Wonder Woman was on the other end of the spectrum for me. While I enjoyed her as a supporting character for the Super Friends (first exposure as a tot) and then the JLA proper, I never had any interest in reading her actual title. Her relaunch was especially exciting for me, not only the gorgeous Perez art, but how it tapped more into the mythological aspects of her background. However, those particular Batman issues were not terribly exciting for me to be honest, I thought Magpie on that one cover was not very compelling. You have to remember, we had that same year just come off the Dark Knight Returns and the bar was crazy high in terms of Batman storytelling. But fast forward a few short months to Batman #404 and the start of Year One, and oh my, THAT was rather exciting (the Mazzucchelli art alone was so epic). Ultimately I felt the excitement fizzle with a lot of what followed for DC, so much so that I ultimately developed a “Crisis was bad!” perspective that was a combination of a general lack of continued enthusiasm and a growing awareness of and nostalgia for what had been lost from the prior era. But again I do remember my collecting/reading enjoyment that year (along with knowing a lot of other fellow comic book fans at the local comic book shops and school who shared in the excitement of everything going on).
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Post by zaku on Sept 10, 2023 3:01:20 GMT -5
Wow! Almost a year after the end of Crisis for Wonder Woman. They must have been strange and/or exciting months for DC readers. Anyone who lived during that time want to share what it felt like? The months preceding the "official relaunchs" weren't really that strange to me, you could still kind of accept various storylines on a month to month basis even though you knew there had been this other big story event that had implications not fully realized yet. We weren't so coded for "continuity compliance" back then if you will (at least I wasn't). In terms of the "reintroductions" themselves, it was actually a really exciting time initially. Sometimes when I talk about my general dislike for how the post-Crisis DC world evolved, I need to remember to qualify that it wasn't an immediate thing. Byrne and Perez were of course very much at the top of their respective games and coming off massively successful runs on their respective books, so the Superman and Wonder Woman titles really got my attention. The Man of Steel reboot mini already featured one of my favorite characters of all time with Superman, and besides the Byrne creative factor, I kind of liked the premise of a less powerful Kal. Not so much because I subscribed to the notion that his prior power levels led to inherently boring stories, but rather it seemed like a nod to the Golden Age earliest iteration which I had a good deal of affinity for. It was a fun read at the time, even the dual covers for the first issue seemed special (it was of course much more of a rarity back then). Wonder Woman was on the other end of the spectrum for me. While I enjoyed her as a supporting character for the Super Friends (first exposure as a tot) and then the JLA proper, I never had any interest in reading her actual title. Her relaunch was especially exciting for me, not only the gorgeous Perez art, but how it tapped more into the mythological aspects of her background. However, those particular Batman issues were not terribly exciting for me to be honest, I thought Magpie on that one cover was not very compelling. You have to remember, we had that same year just come off the Dark Knight Returns and the bar was crazy high in terms of Batman storytelling. But fast forward a few short months to Batman #404 and the start of Year One, and oh my, THAT was rather exciting (the Mazzucchelli art alone was so epic). Ultimately I felt the excitement fizzle with a lot of what followed for DC, so much so that I ultimately developed a “Crisis was bad!” perspective that was a combination of a general lack of continued enthusiasm and a growing awareness of and nostalgia for what had been lost from the prior era. But again I do remember my collecting/reading enjoyment that year (along with knowing a lot of other fellow comic book fans at the local comic book shops and school who shared in the excitement of everything going on). Thank you, this was very interesting! However, understanding when post-Crisis Batman truly begins is a matter of debate. Our shaxper, for example, has it starting with Batman #426 :-)
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Post by zaku on Sept 10, 2023 3:03:45 GMT -5
However, I think there were DC comics where it seemed like Crisis hadn't even happened (aside from the obligatory Cross-Overs). I'm thinking for example Green Lantern or The Atom.
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Post by foxley on Sept 10, 2023 3:20:14 GMT -5
Thank you, this was very interesting! However, understanding when post-Crisis Batman truly begins is a matter of debate. Our shaxper , for example, has it starting with Batman #426 :-) It is a subject of much debate amongst Batman fans, because Batman did not get a comprehensive overhaul like Superman or Wonder Woman.
It is generally accepted that Batman #400 is the last unambiguously pre-Crisis story, due to the appearance of characters like Julia Remarque. However, exactly where after that, the stories are definitely post-Crisis is harder to say. Some say #401, some say #404 (the first issue of the "Year One" arc; the closest thing to reboot Batman got), some #408 (the first appearance of the new Jason Todd; the street punk rather than the circus brat). Batman's appearance in The Man of Steel #3 is definitely post-Crisis, so maybe anything post-Nov 1986 is post-Crisis.
Personally I think #426--the first issue of "A Death in the Family"--is far too late to be starting point of post-Crisis Batman.
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