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Post by rich on Sept 26, 2024 11:41:33 GMT -5
] Not too important, I know, but superheroes certainly are having long, long lives… If Batman is perennially 31 then that would suggest he was born in 1908 😅 Suspension of disbelief isn't terribly hard in comics, though!
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Post by codystarbuck on Sept 26, 2024 12:42:45 GMT -5
Short term decisions for immediate results have long been a danger within business. It is greatly so these days, with corporations who answer to Wall Street, who expect desirable results at the quarterly level and couldn't care about 5 or ten years from now. They will change out their portfolio multiple times in those 5 years. So, businesses chase short term results. Within comics, with the industry so narrowly focused on the Direct Market and collectors, that means stunts and gimmicks. You'd think they would have learned their lessons in the 90s; but, look at who is in charge now. They experienced the 90s as fans, not publishers. Hindsight is only 20/20 if you open your eyes.
These are corporations, who are more concerned about quarterly reports and appealing to Wall Street. They are also part of big conglomerates who bought them to have content to exploit, without having to license it and split any profits. They use the comics as IP, for more profitable platforms. They don't care if they sell well, so long as they don't drag everything else dawn. They set goals for the division and those within the division then scramble to meet them. As long as they can point to a success in the quarter, they survive, even if the whole line is shrinking, slowly. That will be someone else's problem.
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Post by driver1980 on Sept 26, 2024 13:30:30 GMT -5
Short term decisions for immediate results have long been a danger within business. That’s no way to talk about WCW!
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Post by tartanphantom on Sept 26, 2024 13:53:40 GMT -5
Short term decisions for immediate results have long been a danger within business. That’s no way to talk about WCW!
You mentioned a canalboat magazine??
That sounds about as exclusively British as "Jellied Eel Recipes Weekly", "Tea & Scone Fortnightly Digest", or "Eton & Oxford O-Level Studies Journal"
Just kidding with ya. Specialty magazines are always the most expensive due to the limitations of their niche. That's pretty much the same around the world.
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Post by driver1980 on Sept 26, 2024 14:00:43 GMT -5
That’s no way to talk about WCW!
You mentioned a canalboat magazine??
That sounds about as exclusively British as "Jellied Eel Recipes Weekly", "Tea & Scone Fortnightly Digest", or "Eton & Oxford O-Level Studies Journal"
Just kidding with ya. Specialty magazines are always the most expensive due to the limitations of their niche. That's pretty much the same around the world.
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Post by rich on Sept 26, 2024 14:02:49 GMT -5
I wonder how long it'll be until Marvel and DC end up releasing trades with a couple of dozen variant covers? 😅
Or, more realistically, how long until they release albums/graphic novels without bothering to have a floppy pamphlet release first?
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Post by codystarbuck on Sept 26, 2024 14:23:43 GMT -5
I wonder how long it'll be until Marvel and DC end up releasing trades with a couple of dozen variant covers? 😅 Or, more realistically, how long until they release albums/graphic novels without bothering to have a floppy pamphlet release first? Book publishers have tried variants, though on an extremely limited basis. They did that with the Phantom menace novelization, from Terry Brooks, with 4 variants, reflecting one of the characters (Obi Wan, Amidala, Darth Maul and Anakin); but, the Darth Maul version was outselling the others and Del Rey tapped out and printed more Darth Maul dust jackets and sent them to bookstores, to replace the other character ones. Lord of the Rings had all kinds of editions out, with classic covers and movie tie-in covers. By far, in my opinion, the best was the image of the Ringwraiths that they had for the omnibus edition. Comics aren't alone in that...soda distillers, magazine publishers (especially TV Guide and Entertainment Weekly) and others. It's still a short-term gimmick and is best used very sparingly, for a special project. Like most things, it falls apart when someone gets greedy and tries it again and again, until you are numbed to the stunt. As for the latter question; once it is no longer economically viable. Or if they get a real visionary, willing to take chances. Good luck with the latter scenario, in a corporate environment.
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Post by rich on Sept 26, 2024 14:32:16 GMT -5
. It's still a short-term gimmick and is best used very sparingly, for a special project. Like most things, it falls apart when someone gets greedy and tries it again and again, until you are numbed to the stunt. It doesn't seem to be a short term gimmick in comics any more. It seems more normal to have 5-10 variants on any random comic than none at all... Are comics fans numb-proof? 😅
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Post by Yasotay on Sept 26, 2024 14:55:45 GMT -5
Again I would argue that the manga stories allow characters to develop, grow, change, and reach resolutions. The concept brought to periodical comics, was part of what made Marvel seem innovative in the 60s, Peter Parker aged as the stories were told etc. high school to college to grad school, etc. and DC would eventually follow suit, but then comics became trapped by the Stan Lee maxim that fans don't want change, only the illusion of change, and reactions to storylines that did effect change (characters dying to be replaced by legacy characters, new status quo's etc.) bore that out as any periodical comic fans resisted and rejected those kind of changes to the status quo, so you began to have things get recycled with everything put back into place at the end of every story. Comics were no longer dynamic and evolving and characters could no longer change and grow form the conflicts they overcame. But this took place long before comics became corporate and more IP farms. That was something the corporate entities inherited, not brought to comics. That was a by-product of the generation of comic fans becoming comic creators and the rise to primacy of the sacred cow of continuity, not a function of corporate comics. Now corporations recognized that you don't mess with your successful IP by changing it (just ask Coca Cola what happens when you do it badly), so once they were involved that resistance to change become entrenched in an institutional way, but it's not that comics go too corporate to change, it's that they stopped changing to please the longterm fanbase who wanted things to be like they were when they first discovered comics-the problem is that that was a sliding scale and different for different segments of the fan base so by trying to please everyone, they pleased no one and lost the very thing that was drawing people to the story-cool dynamic characters who grew and evolved through their stories. But stories need beginnings, middles and ENDS. The resolution is what makes or breaks the story. Because the fan base wouldn't accept change or ends, super-hero storytelling became stagnant. Manga, YA graphic novels, and breakout non-big 2 books like Walking Dead or Saga succeed because they tell a dynamic story that has an actual ending as a destination. Even books like Watchmen and Sandman, that have achieved evergreen status in the comic market-have that as a feature, and it is one of the reasons for their enduring appeal and continued sales success. Even Marvel and DC stories told in other mediums, especially the MCU, feature that dynamic. It's a big reason why those stories resonate with audiences and why when they come to periodical comics they don't stick around-not because they can't find which #4 someone was talking about, but because the stories do not have endings or satisfying resolutions that impact the characters in terms of growth and development. It's what good stories need to do to satisfy the audience. It's what periodical comics from Marvel and DC usually fail to do. So even if by some miracle, someone finds a comic shop and actually buys a periodical comic-they're not getting a satisfying storytelling experience, even if they read a whole arc. That's not a corporate problem, that's a we have to tell one never ending story and keep the characters the way the fanbase discovered them because our audience won't accept anything else problem. And the bigger problem is that isn't going to attract new customers to replace those customers who age out or die off. Which is exactly where Marvel and DC are right now. A format and a storytelling ethos that are geared to generations past and do not appeal to current audiences, and you are never going to get those different segments to attracted to the same type of products or stories. That's the divide that is limiting the growth or comics right now. -M This is one of the best explanations I've seen of the morass modern, mainstream superhero comics find themselves in. The unfortunate thing is, I don't think Marvel or DC ever understood that having a deep and ongoing sense of continuity isn't necessarily incompatible with permanent character growth and change, which in itself is not incompatible with great commercial success. The Game of Thrones/Song of Ice and Fire saga is proof you can have a universe with a very strong continuity along with real, lasting change, all while still being commercially popular. Of course, this was all under tight creative control by someone with a singular vision (George R.R. Martin in the case of the books, the two show runners in the case of the TV show).
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2024 17:20:37 GMT -5
Whatever happened to Giganta the Gorilla Girl? Is she still around?
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Post by Icctrombone on Sept 26, 2024 17:34:59 GMT -5
I’ve seen the release of omnibus’ with different covers.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2024 17:46:04 GMT -5
I’ve seen the release of omnibus’ with different covers.
X-23 Omnibus, as an example, has a regular cover and a variant one for the Direct Market comic shops.
Over in England, some of their Hardcovers also have webstore exclusives with variant covers.
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Post by codystarbuck on Sept 26, 2024 20:18:10 GMT -5
Whatever happened to Giganta the Gorilla Girl? Is she still around?
She was turned into the 50ft Woman, by Challenge of the Superfriends and DC has since followed suit.
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Post by berkley on Sept 27, 2024 2:17:04 GMT -5
This is the first time I heard of Giganta the Gorilla Girl but one thing I find interesting about that first page is that even though Giganta is clearly meant to be the giant her name implies by comparison with the man she<s holding over her shoulder, Wonder Woman looks to be about the same size, unless she's much farther away than appears obvious without any background visual clues. How are their relative sizes portrayed in the rest of the comic?
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Post by Cei-U! on Sept 27, 2024 3:22:46 GMT -5
This is the first time I heard of Giganta the Gorilla Girl but one thing I find interesting about that first page is that even though Giganta is clearly meant to be the giant her name implies by comparison with the man she<s holding over her shoulder, Wonder Woman looks to be about the same size, unless she's much farther away than appears obvious without any background visual clues. How are their relative sizes portrayed in the rest of the comic? First introduced in the Golden Age, Giganta was originally a female gorilla artificially evolved into a human being by a scientist. She retained both her superhuman strength and her animal savagery but was neither a giant physically nor could she grow to a larger size. As cody notes, she didn't acquire that power until the Challenge of the Super Friends cartoon. That's why she and Wonder Woman are approximately the same size in the Silver Age art posted above. The name "Giganta" was her pre-transformation name and not something she adopted after the fact.
Cei-U! I summon the slinky simian!
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