|
Post by wildfire2099 on Nov 24, 2015 17:21:02 GMT -5
That's a good questions, actually. They're already trying to forget Superior Iron Man, but that was shorter and far less well written. Doc Ock as Spidey, while polarizing, certainly had alot of fans. I think it will actually be better liked with distance..it's not like they're very likely to refer to it much in the future, so in 10 years people will likely regard it more as a much elseworlds experience.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2015 8:46:45 GMT -5
Superior IM was a catastrophically bad book, based on a lazy premise of just replicating the success of another recent series
|
|
|
Post by Pharozonk on Nov 25, 2015 12:47:09 GMT -5
I genuinely can't remember the last time DC published anything that was in the least bit appealing to me* - I've dipped into them sporadically over the years, but if their business plan isn't actually to build their line and each series around things I'll hate, it's a damn close match. (* it might be as far back as the pre-reboot Legion. No, not that reboot, the one before that. No, you're not going back far enough, that one only wrecked continuity it didn't completely invalidate everything I'd ever read, I mean the reboot before that one. You may well see the problem I have with DC...) I'm in a similar boat. There's nothing at DC these days that resemble the universe and characters that I got invested in when I first got into comics around 2006. Maybe the problem is me and the fact that I can't let that continuity go, but this new stuff is just not for me.
|
|
|
Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on Nov 25, 2015 17:17:11 GMT -5
this new stuff is just not for me. Isn't it the case all across the big two for most of us? The more we love comic the broader our spectrum gets, after a certain age and exposure to other types of comics, it becomes increasingly difficult to invest yourself in comics aimed at the current same target we were when we discovered those comics. The same could probably have been said for our parents. I guess the trick is to invest yourself less in corporate owned characters, as those have a programmed DNA to try to appeal to the current as-of-publication 8-15 years old. But I understand you as well in this sense : for me, reading a batman comic book is a bit like taking a holiday in my youth, then it makes sense you'd want them to stay familiar. But mainstream big two comics never were meant to be like that, even Archie is evolving!
|
|
|
Post by dupersuper on Nov 25, 2015 20:34:43 GMT -5
I genuinely can't remember the last time DC published anything that was in the least bit appealing to me* - I've dipped into them sporadically over the years, but if their business plan isn't actually to build their line and each series around things I'll hate, it's a damn close match. (* it might be as far back as the pre-reboot Legion. No, not that reboot, the one before that. No, you're not going back far enough, that one only wrecked continuity it didn't completely invalidate everything I'd ever read, I mean the reboot before that one. You may well see the problem I have with DC...) I'm in a similar boat. There's nothing at DC these days that resemble the universe and characters that I got invested in when I first got into comics around 2006. Maybe the problem is me and the fact that I can't let that continuity go, but this new stuff is just not for me. I hear ya'. I got hooked on weekly comics by the advent of the triangle era in the Superman comics circa 1989/90, tracked down all the Superman back-issues back to Crisis and Man of Steel (and plenty earlier, but that's irrelevant here), and been following them ever since. Flashpoint was a big blow to me.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2015 12:45:37 GMT -5
this new stuff is just not for me. Isn't it the case all across the big two for most of us? Nope. I like elements from classic and current eras. I am a walker between both worlds. I understand many classic readers aren't interested in new books, but there are also lots of current readers who have little or no interest in anything before 1990. As much as I liked 70s DC and Marvel comics, there's also a lot I have no interest in too, but that doesn't make me any less of a reader or collector.
|
|
|
Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on Nov 26, 2015 13:09:31 GMT -5
Isn't it the case all across the big two for most of us? Nope. I like elements from classic and current eras. I am a walker between both worlds. I understand many classic readers aren't interested in new books, but there are also lots of current readers who have little or no interest in anything before 1990. As much as I liked 70s DC and Marvel comics, there's also a lot I have no interest in too, but that doesn't make me any less of a reader or collector. Me as well. But in the rest of my post, I was merely tackling the fact that with age and growing understanding of the medium, it's easy if not logical to loose interest in mainstream superheroes, remain attached to the ones we grew up with, and be more open minded to the more "indie"/leftfield stuff put out by the big two. The few remaining superhero comics from hte big two purchase are either trying to be innovating in their storytelling, or pure self professed nostalgia of certain specific areas I loved and grew up with (the "bwahaha" in my case). The current regular marvel of DC superhero stuff has no appeal to me (Bendis, Johns, Fraction, etc), and I suspect it's mostly because I'm not the target, and I'm fine with that (seriously, the marketing guys would be thick morons if they thought/hoped a single white male of 35+ of age was their future market...) In that regard, I think the current direction of DC is far from as misguided as some supose it is. Their main problem is the media sweep Marvel manages to maintain around global culture.
|
|
|
Post by wildfire2099 on Nov 27, 2015 11:55:12 GMT -5
So I was under the impression that some of the new titles where going to be not in the main DCU... but apparently they are.. the Lois and Clark one is about that Superman hiding out in the current DCU after Convergence (and retconning the big fight with Darseid that started the new 52 as having he be the one that saved the day). Titans Hunt also seems like it's 'current' (though I'm not 100% sure on that.. seems like it might be a current flashback, actually). I'm sad... since shoehorn this stuff in can't possibly end well.
|
|
|
Post by dupersuper on Nov 27, 2015 20:05:51 GMT -5
So I was under the impression that some of the new titles where going to be not in the main DCU... but apparently they are.. the Lois and Clark one is about that Superman hiding out in the current DCU after Convergence (and retconning the big fight with Darseid that started the new 52 as having he be the one that saved the day). Um...no it didn't. Pre-Flashpoint Supes watched the end of the fight from a distance, but didn't have to step in.
|
|
|
Post by wildfire2099 on Nov 27, 2015 21:43:12 GMT -5
I thought he zoomed in and knocked Darkseid through the portal? When he said he didn't have to step in, I thought he meant show himself and get into the fight?
I guess it could be that he was watching the whole time (though that seems weird). Still, my point is he's not on some pre-Flashpoint Convergence world, but on the regular DCU... I'm not a big fan of all this multiple copies of characters running around.
|
|
|
Post by batlaw on Nov 28, 2015 0:47:16 GMT -5
My thoughts on DCs current direction is that if or when they change their current direction they might get some of my attention, interest and money again.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2015 12:28:46 GMT -5
Superman: Lois and Clark Wonder Woman 77 Titans Hunt
I used to read about 10 to 14 books on a Monthly Basis a mere 12-18 months ago and now I'm reading these three now and having heard that both Batman 66 and Sensation Comics are gone in December 2015. It is a sad thing for me to say this; I was a DC Comics Guy for more than 40 years and now I'm shifting my attention to Dynamite Comics and Marvel Comics for the duration of my comic book reading from January 2016 and after. It's sad to say this!
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2015 14:32:57 GMT -5
If DC offered a subscriber service like Marvel Unlimited, I would very likely subscribe, sample more and find books I like enough to keep reading. They are not producing anything currently however, that I am willing to shell out for specifically at cover prices, and very little I would even want to own in trade long term for multiple rereads. I do check out some stuff via the library, but nothing I have seen/read has inspired me to go out and get/keep up with the current material.
It's not that I think the stuff is bad per se (some of it is, some is just competent, and some is good) but none of it is good enough to make it worth the cost of getting it in terms of entertainment value for me. Then again Marvel only has 1 book I am committed to getting at its cost (and that I got via a print sub for 45% off cover for the 12 issues), the difference is, Marvel has a way for people to sample their line in a cost effective line via Unlimited, and a cost effective way to support books (print subs at 45% off cover) to give the audience an in to sample and follow at a better value if they choose to do so. DC charges more than cover for print subs on the few books they offer it for as well, so they are doing a very poor job of bringing people in to sample their stuff and making it available in a cost effective manner.
Despite the spin that the new52 was meant as an outreach for new readers and a jumping on point, they continue to produce material and implement business practices intending to maximize profit/revenue from the existing market audience in the traditional content delivery system, i.e. the direct market via lcs, rather than reaching out to new markets. When they then produce content that alienates that core market, it works at cross-purposes with their business model.
Digital delivery at print prices for new material is a bar to gaining new audience.
Lack of content sub service (which is the entertainment business model becoming the norm in the wider entertainment market-think everything form Netflix and Hulu to HBO to ESPN Insider) is a bar to gaining new audience.
Lack of incentive to get print subscription thus getting a reader to buy in long term is a bar to gaining new audience.
Their business model is becoming a dinosaur and it is affecting content because they are becoming more and more desperate to find short term sales spikes to meet revenue needs. Sales on their line of books is top heavy (the top 4-5 selling titles make up a disproportionately high percentage of their total sales and their mid-tier books sell at numbers closer to their bottom sellers than their top sellers). Non-traditional books and lower sellers don't have a shelf life long enough to build audience. The top sellers need to have content designed to deliver those sales spikes-Bruce and Joker are dead, sales spike, intro Bat-Chappie-sales spike, if/when Bruce comes back sales spike, September event sales spike, endless Trinity War/Forever Evil/Darkseid War bland event stories-sales spikes with diminishing returns, etc. etc. Then they rely on things like Dark Knight III to salvage their quarterly sales numbers when everything else isn't working.
The direction of content is dictated by the needs of the business model, the business model is based on a hardcore long term audience of people buying out of loyalty at niche boutique outlets (i.e. the lcs). Their attempts to expand into a digital market are hampered by their desire/need not to undercut or undersell their traditional boutique outlets and erode their viability because those boutique sellers are the core of their sales force. So they spin in a vicious circle. DCs content direction will not change/improve, until they figure out a way to change/overhaul their business model to succeed in the 21st century, not the 20th, and until they do, the content will remain a prisoner of the unsatisfied business needs of their dinosaur model.
Marvel is finding ways to change their business model (Unlimited, sub services, etc.) and is dominating market share. Image is finding ways to change their business model (low priced intro trades to build long term readers, book market presence, retailer incentive packages to stock books on a returnable basis if retailer commit to bringing in a certain amount of product, establishing a direct print subscription service where not existed before-still slightly overpriced but making books available to build readership) and their market share is growing. Because both are thriving, they can make some content decisions (Image moreso than Marvel) that is not dictated by the needs of the bottom line. DC is not evolving their business model, is shedding market share, and is locked into a content model that isn't working for a lot of people. Until they figure out the business issues, the content is going to suffer. When business goes down, product gets more conservative (i.e. rely on established brands-the batbooks-and push the old standbys) and what little experimental or new product is developed is given a very short leash to become a big seller quickly or die on the vine.
DC needs a rethink and overhaul from the ground up not just in editorial vision and content creation, they need a corporate reinvention to figure out how to nut just survive by the skin of their teeth in the new market, but how to thrive and succeed to free the content from the trap it is in. However the difficulty is that the more business shrinks, the more focused on the short term a business needs to be to hang on. DC is in that cycle now. They need to break free of that cycle, or at least to loosen its hold a bit. DC You, Convergence, etc. seem experimental, but they were meant to provide short term sale spikes, not the beginnings of a long term publishing plans, and when those short term spikes didn't materialize they were scrapped and revealed to be what they were, and now it's "back to basics" except it's not really, especially if that doesn't deliver the short term sales spikes they need. Until they can escape the trap of chasing a market that doesn't really exist anymore, i.e. actually find a direction, what you are seeing is what you will get.
-M
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2015 16:21:55 GMT -5
If DC offered a subscriber service like Marvel Unlimited, I would very likely subscribe, sample more and find books I like enough to keep reading. They are not producing anything currently however, that I am willing to shell out for specifically at cover prices, and very little I would even want to own in trade long term for multiple rereads. I do check out some stuff via the library, but nothing I have seen/read has inspired me to go out and get/keep up with the current material. -M Son of the Gun, you are right on the nose, mrp!
|
|
|
Post by thwhtguardian on Nov 28, 2015 18:56:17 GMT -5
I thought he zoomed in and knocked Darkseid through the portal? When he said he didn't have to step in, I thought he meant show himself and get into the fight? I guess it could be that he was watching the whole time (though that seems weird). Still, my point is he's not on some pre-Flashpoint Convergence world, but on the regular DCU... I'm not a big fan of all this multiple copies of characters running around. I don't know, it seemed pretty clear that he was a silent observer, I think he even said as much.
|
|