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Post by Dizzy D on Jan 6, 2016 4:16:15 GMT -5
Problem with DC right now is that I just don't trust them anymore (reaching back to the final issue of Stormwatch Team Achilles and Jim Shooter's run on the 3boot Legion and that final issue, but there are far more incidents over the years) and therefore are less willing to give them a chance when they do try something decent (which forms a vicious circle, I know; every time they do something interesting I'm hesitant to buy into it because I think it won't last, so it doesn't get the support it deserves and therefore gets cancelled so they can do another Batbook.) Meanwhile Image is putting out more books I'm interested in than I can buy, so I'm even less likely to check out DC's current line-up and only check titles based on word of mouth on this and other forums. I *am* interested in their new attempts to revive Vertigo though. Really? I feel just the opposite. While DC's more out there stuff doesn't often last, they usually let the writers come to a (Sometimes rushed) end. I feel like Image books just disappear for months or years without explanation, or something with a really sad, annoying explanation. Peter Panzerfaust, for instance... or Five Ghosts. I'm almost at a point where I want the series to end before I read it. Expectations for independent comics are just different (probably because I'm used to European comics who have even less of a schedule) so I'm not bothered by them having an uneven schedule.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2016 4:32:23 GMT -5
I think this might be relevant if tangential response to Wildfire's complaint about the frequency of indy book releases...its by Neil Gaiman reacting to fan complaints about George MArtin's first missed deadline for Winter Wolves in 2009...a blog response to a particularly irate and vociferous fan...
-M
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jan 6, 2016 10:17:14 GMT -5
That's fine to say, and to a small extent, I agree. OTOH, when you write a series, there's an implied agreement that the series will continue to an ending of some sort. If there's a reason (like back in the day when Kurt Busiek had health issues) that's one thing.
When the writer just can't be bothered to write because they're having too much fun being a 'celebrity' (Patrick Rothfuss), or engaged in other projects (Martin), it grates on one sometimes... especially if there's an attitude. If they came out and said 'writing the next book if #5 on my list, after these things, and this is when that'll happen'. It would be fine. The whole 'it's done when it's done, stop bugging me'. to FANS that have created the guys livelihood I don't like.
Peter Panzerfaust is a prime example... Wiebe said on his blog 'I make more money on Rat Queens, so f-you'... (maybe not exactly, but pretty close)... that's not OK, IMO... when you have 2 parts of a 25 part story hanging. Post the ending on your blog if you don't want to publish it.. something.
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Post by Dizzy D on Jan 6, 2016 11:24:36 GMT -5
I completely disagree on that reading of what he said. In the interview I read, he said "As for Panzerfaust, Tyler hasn't been able to work on it because he hadn't made money on it in, at the very minimum, six issues. It's hard to commit full time to something when you can't make any money."
IOW it wasn't selling enough that the artist could make a living off it, which is something quite different than a f-you to the reader.
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Post by thwhtguardian on Jan 6, 2016 14:35:38 GMT -5
That's fine to say, and to a small extent, I agree. OTOH, when you write a series, there's an implied agreement that the series will continue to an ending of some sort. If there's a reason (like back in the day when Kurt Busiek had health issues) that's one thing. When the writer just can't be bothered to write because they're having too much fun being a 'celebrity' (Patrick Rothfuss), or engaged in other projects (Martin), it grates on one sometimes... especially if there's an attitude. If they came out and said 'writing the next book if #5 on my list, after these things, and this is when that'll happen'. It would be fine. The whole 'it's done when it's done, stop bugging me'. to FANS that have created the guys livelihood I don't like. Peter Panzerfaust is a prime example... Wiebe said on his blog 'I make more money on Rat Queens, so f-you'... (maybe not exactly, but pretty close)... that's not OK, IMO... when you have 2 parts of a 25 part story hanging. Post the ending on your blog if you don't want to publish it.. something. I see no agreement with this, as Gaiman said that money was only for the product physically in your hand not what you want after you consume that product. There is no obligation to give you what you want, the creator only creates what they feel like and if you like it you can pay for it and if not you can find your pleasure elsewhere.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2016 15:41:19 GMT -5
That's fine to say, and to a small extent, I agree. OTOH, when you write a series, there's an implied agreement that the series will continue to an ending of some sort. If there's a reason (like back in the day when Kurt Busiek had health issues) that's one thing. When the writer just can't be bothered to write because they're having too much fun being a 'celebrity' (Patrick Rothfuss), or engaged in other projects (Martin), it grates on one sometimes... especially if there's an attitude. If they came out and said 'writing the next book if #5 on my list, after these things, and this is when that'll happen'. It would be fine. The whole 'it's done when it's done, stop bugging me'. to FANS that have created the guys livelihood I don't like. Peter Panzerfaust is a prime example... Wiebe said on his blog 'I make more money on Rat Queens, so f-you'... (maybe not exactly, but pretty close)... that's not OK, IMO... when you have 2 parts of a 25 part story hanging. Post the ending on your blog if you don't want to publish it.. something. The perception of the implied agreement is where the problem lies. It is NOT there. If the buyer thinks it is, then therein lies the problem. You got what you paid for. There is no strings attached to that purchase. If you don't want to purchase it because it is part of an unfinished whole, then that is your choice, but your buying it doesn't create any obligation or directive to the creator to do more of it. Now if it is successful he or she probably will, but that is their choice and unless they are under contract to the publisher/studio/what-have-you, they are under absolutely no obligation to create more. If you have an expectation that they do, that is your expectation, not part of the completed transaction for the product you bought and have in hand. -M
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jan 6, 2016 20:28:54 GMT -5
We can just agree to disagree then, I guess. When you announce a comic book series is going to be x issues long, and the story is structured such that it's one long plot, you should finish it. Just like if you say you're writing a trilogy, you should write a trilogy.(Unless it's so bad that no one cares, I guess) As someone who makes a living on entertainment, you have to treat your fans right. I've bought plenty of novels that have a crappy ending, a non-ending, or a cliff hanger.. they piss me off, and that's my right. I suppose you're correct in that you paid for what you get, but that's not how you build a fan base or a career as a writer.
@ Dizzy - I get what you're saying, maybe I took it worse that it was because I was so annoyed. I think the fact that they just moved on to another series without discussing it for a really long time was really a lousy thing to do in general. If they can't make money on it, just give people some closure and move on... do string them along with 'maybe someday...'
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Post by Dizzy D on Jan 7, 2016 3:26:22 GMT -5
Tyler has said that he does want to finish Peter Panzerfaust, just that he needs to do some work right now so that he has money to eat. They didn't make *any* money on the last six issues and even had to put money in to get the last two published. The way Image works is that for the creator owned stuff writers and artists are not paid up front like with Vertigo (and I believe Dark Horse also does this? Can anybody confirm), but get you get complete ownership and a large cut of the profits. They have far less overhead so you need to sell less to make a profit, but if the title is not making any profit the creators get nothing. Hell, I don't even blame corporate comics for cancelling titles if they are running at a loss and they usually have other titles to compensate.
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Post by Action Ace on Feb 2, 2016 22:43:08 GMT -5
DECEMBER 2015 DC COMICS SALES(monthly sales analysis from The Beat) Note especially the comments about variant covers. And I'll ask the question too--why not just print the covers?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2016 23:00:39 GMT -5
DC SALES DECEMBER 2015(monthly sales analysis from The Beat) Note especially the comments about variant covers. And I'll ask the question too--why not just print the covers? The link no longer there!
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Post by Action Ace on Feb 3, 2016 0:54:05 GMT -5
DC SALES DECEMBER 2015(monthly sales analysis from The Beat) Note especially the comments about variant covers. And I'll ask the question too--why not just print the covers? The link no longer there! it was there, but I had an extra letter on the end
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Post by Dizzy D on Feb 3, 2016 5:34:40 GMT -5
DECEMBER 2015 DC COMICS SALES(monthly sales analysis from The Beat) Note especially the comments about variant covers. And I'll ask the question too--why not just print the covers? I love the variant covers comments. I haven't checked sales figures for a long time, I assume those Scooby Doo and like titles are also selling in a different market? Because those sales are very low, but have been for years now, so something must keep those titles going.
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Post by dupersuper on Feb 3, 2016 20:33:11 GMT -5
DECEMBER 2015 DC COMICS SALES(monthly sales analysis from The Beat) Note especially the comments about variant covers. And I'll ask the question too--why not just print the covers? I love the variant covers comments. I haven't checked sales figures for a long time, I assume those Scooby Doo and like titles are also selling in a different market? Because those sales are very low, but have been for years now, so something must keep those titles going. They may be considered a loss leader to hook kids...
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Post by Action Ace on Feb 17, 2016 20:12:04 GMT -5
The Beat looks at January 2016No Justice League and Dark Knight III (and twenty fewer titles shipping overall) results in DC's sales dropping one million units from Dec-Jan.
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