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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2023 12:53:18 GMT -5
What about Juggernaut VS The Destroyer?
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Post by impulse on Apr 16, 2023 13:23:13 GMT -5
All this talk of Perez, Byrne, Adams, Cockrum, Miller, and no love for THE UNQUESTIONED LIVING LEGEND Rob Liefeld??? And you expect this to be a serious discussion on comic artistry greatness?  ? I'd kick your arguments in the face if I could draw feet properly to do so! |
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Post by MDG on Apr 16, 2023 14:22:42 GMT -5
I had a whole thing to say about this, but one thing to remember is that Byrne made his impact as a working pretty much in the system, and had pretty long runs on books.
Adams and Steranko made a point of positioning themselves as "outsiders" who intended to shake things up. But compared to Byrne, Adams and Steranko "dabbled" in comics for a few years and couldn't make a go of it.
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Post by Graphic Autist on Apr 17, 2023 10:53:54 GMT -5
I was all about Byrne in the 80s and very early 90s. If he became artist/writer on a title, I would buy it. Too bad I always hear horrible things about him.
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Post by kirby101 on Apr 17, 2023 11:12:14 GMT -5
I had a whole thing to say about this, but one thing to remember is that Byrne made his impact as a working pretty much in the system, and had pretty long runs on books. Adams and Steranko made a point of positioning themselves as "outsiders" who intended to shake things up. But compared to Byrne, Adams and Steranko "dabbled" in comics for a few years and couldn't make a go of it. Of course they could have continued to do work for hire and churning out monthlies for other companies. But they were talented and driven enough to branch out into other endeavors and become highly successful.
Adams had his own studio that did comics, advertising, commercials, storyboards... and Steranko ran a magazine, as well as doing art for books and other outlets. |
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Post by Icctrombone on Apr 17, 2023 11:51:02 GMT -5
I had a whole thing to say about this, but one thing to remember is that Byrne made his impact as a working pretty much in the system, and had pretty long runs on books. Adams and Steranko made a point of positioning themselves as "outsiders" who intended to shake things up. But compared to Byrne, Adams and Steranko "dabbled" in comics for a few years and couldn't make a go of it. Of course they could have continued to do work for hire and churning out monthlies for other companies. But they were talented and driven enough to branch out into other endeavors and become highly successful.
Adams had his own studio that did comics, advertising, commercials, storyboards... and Steranko ran a magazine, as well as doing art for books and other outlets. I saw the comment as “they couldn’t continue doing low paying comics and do their well paying jobs simultaneously. “ |
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Post by badwolf on Apr 17, 2023 12:58:19 GMT -5
Agreed. Another point about the strength of an artist is that Adams and Steranko had inkers on certain projects, but they did not need them to create great work. Byrne's work needed Austin, as it was bizarre without a stabilizing hand like Austin. I've always judged artists' true gifts based on their unassisted work, and in that category, Bryne was not some top-tier, classic illustrator. I don't agree at all. While Austin was great, Byrne's art never looked better than it did in the first half of his FF run. |
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Post by Cei-U! on Apr 17, 2023 13:12:47 GMT -5
Agreed. Another point about the strength of an artist is that Adams and Steranko had inkers on certain projects, but they did not need them to create great work. Byrne's work needed Austin, as it was bizarre without a stabilizing hand like Austin. I've always judged artists' true gifts based on their unassisted work, and in that category, Bryne was not some top-tier, classic illustrator. I don't agree at all. While Austin was great, Byrne's art never looked better than it did in the first half of his FF run. I must respectfully disagree. Byrne was not his own best inker. His FF never looked better than when Jerry Ordway came onboard. Ordway complemented all of Byrne's strengths while compensating for his weaknesses, weaknesses which Byrne's own inks only emphasized. Austin, Rubinstein, Sinnott, Hubt, and Kesel were all better over Byrne than Byrne (all in my opinion, of course).
Cei-U! I summon one BFA's POV!
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Post by badwolf on Apr 17, 2023 13:20:02 GMT -5
I don't agree at all. While Austin was great, Byrne's art never looked better than it did in the first half of his FF run. I must respectfully disagree. Byrne was not his own best inker. His FF never looked better than when Jerry Ordway came onboard. Ordway complemented all of Byrne's strengths while compensating for his weaknesses, weaknesses which Byrne's own inks only emphasized. Austin, Rubinstein, Sinnott, Hubt, and Kesel were all better over Byrne than Byrne (all in my opinion, of course).
Cei-U! I summon one BFA's POV!
I'll agree that Austin & Rubinstein were great (along with Tom Palmer, my three favorite inkers on anyone), but I still think his own inks were best. Ordway? Decent but a bit "light." Kesel was good. Sinnott? At the bottom. |
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Apr 17, 2023 13:49:03 GMT -5
I don't agree at all. While Austin was great, Byrne's art never looked better than it did in the first half of his FF run. I must respectfully disagree. Byrne was not his own best inker. His FF never looked better than when Jerry Ordway came onboard. Ordway complemented all of Byrne's strengths while compensating for his weaknesses, weaknesses which Byrne's own inks only emphasized. Austin, Rubinstein, Sinnott, Hubt, and Kesel were all better over Byrne than Byrne (all in my opinion, of course).
Cei-U! I summon one BFA's POV!
I would go so far as to say that Byrne was very close to being his own worst inker. |
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Post by Cei-U! on Apr 17, 2023 14:30:42 GMT -5
I must respectfully disagree. Byrne was not his own best inker. His FF never looked better than when Jerry Ordway came onboard. Ordway complemented all of Byrne's strengths while compensating for his weaknesses, weaknesses which Byrne's own inks only emphasized. Austin, Rubinstein, Sinnott, Hubt, and Kesel were all better over Byrne than Byrne (all in my opinion, of course).
Cei-U! I summon one BFA's POV!
I would go so far as to say that Byrne was very close to being his own worst inker. "Very close" only because he was once inked by Vinnie Colletta.
Cei-U! I summon the bottom of the barrel... or is that inkpot?
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Apr 17, 2023 14:38:46 GMT -5
I would go so far as to say that Byrne was very close to being his own worst inker. "Very close" only because he was once inked by Vinnie Colletta.
Cei-U! I summon the bottom of the barrel... or is that inkpot?
Always leave yourself an escape clause. |
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Post by berkley on Apr 17, 2023 18:40:45 GMT -5
I don't agree at all. While Austin was great, Byrne's art never looked better than it did in the first half of his FF run. I must respectfully disagree. Byrne was not his own best inker. His FF never looked better than when Jerry Ordway came onboard. Ordway complemented all of Byrne's strengths while compensating for his weaknesses, weaknesses which Byrne's own inks only emphasized. Austin, Rubinstein, Sinnott, Hubt, and Kesel were all better over Byrne than Byrne (all in my opinion, of course).
Cei-U! I summon one BFA's POV!
I especially liked Austin's inks over Byrne's pencils on the X-Men and Chiaramonte's on Iron Fist. And Dan Adkins on IF as well, now I think of it. |
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Post by Icctrombone on Apr 17, 2023 18:46:41 GMT -5
I would go so far as to say that Byrne was very close to being his own worst inker. "Very close" only because he was once inked by Vinnie Colletta.
Cei-U! I summon the bottom of the barrel... or is that inkpot?
The pain, the pain* * said in the Dr. Smith voice * |
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Post by Icctrombone on Apr 17, 2023 18:48:00 GMT -5
I thought that Karl Kesel did a great job on his pencils for the Legends series.
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