|
|
Post by codystarbuck on Apr 19, 2023 10:51:45 GMT -5
That is the thing, these days. All these characters have master level plot-fu, where they get their butts kicked, until suddenly it doesn't do anything and they win. I liked it better when you had defined parameters and the hero ran up against their limits and had to cleverly find a way to pull out the win or somehow reach beyond.
It's also why I generally dislike magic characters, as their magic is usually undefined. Far too often Dr Strange wins because that is the way the plot was written, rather than him learning some secret, which he can exploit to win. I preferred Ursula Le Guin's Earthsea model (also used by Glen Cook, in his Black Company books), where true names are the source of power in a sorcerer or monster, allowing one to gain power over them. Then, you have something for the hero to work toward. The one case I can cite where they built stories around a defined weakness was Zatanna, where she has to speak her spells, backwards; but, that mostly was a device to set up bondage scenes, so we can have damsel-in-distress drama.
It's rather like the Japanese tv hero series, Ultraman, where there is a time limit to the hero's power, yet nothing works until his alarm starts blinking, with a 60 second warning and suddenly he (and she, in at least one series) remembers the whole energy beam thing that always cuts the monster in half, or disintegrates them; or, in one series, freezes them in place so they can squeegee them away, with their forearm!
|
|
|
|
Post by impulse on Apr 19, 2023 11:03:31 GMT -5
One of the most egregious shark-jumping power creep moments that really irked me relatively recently (well 21st century) was in one of the Civl War lead ups.
Wolverine had endured power creep on his healing factor for decades to where it was already getting silly, but in this story he is blown up and incinerated down to the Adamantium skeleton but somehow not only regenerated from that but within a short ish window I think. Maybe a few days in story?
Just ridiculous. Completely implausible even for superhero pseudo science, destroys suspension of disbelief, but also destroys any sense of threat or danger. What, did he is brain somehow not melt and regrow his entire body?
|
|
|
|
Post by sunofdarkchild on Apr 19, 2023 11:10:44 GMT -5
Looking back, I really understand why Chris Claremont nerfed Magik so bad when she joined the New Mutants in the 80s by making her powerless on Earth for no discernable reason. She memorized hundreds of ancient spell-books, was apprentice to 2 extremely powerful sorcerers, created one of the most powerful magical artifacts in the multiverse, and conquered an entire dimension. But out of nowhere she can't cast any spells on Earth - except for all the times she does because Claremont could never be consistent about. If she could use spells on Earth in any consistent manner, there wouldn't have been anything for anyone else in the cast to do since not only were they all far less powerful than she was, but were also much less experienced than someone who had already defeated the likes of Belasco and was ruling her own dimension.
At least there is an easy explanation for the nerfing and the inconsistencies in it being Illyana pretending that her powers didn't work because she was too scared to use them due to the danger of her turning into the Darkchild and causing the world to be destroyed, so she had a good reason to always hold back.
Nowadays her powers do work just fine on Earth, but she still primarily just swings her sword rather than cast any of the spells she knowns because that's just her style, and she likely still prefers to hold back and not use her true power.
|
|
|
|
Post by Slam_Bradley on Apr 19, 2023 11:15:12 GMT -5
The thing is, that "power creep" is endemic to any serial fiction. It happens pretty much anywhere a character appears over a period of time. You can even see it in fairly small samples and time periods in movie franchises. John McClane started out as a slightly better than average guy with some police training in Die Hard. By the later films he's basically a superhero. When you have superheroes that have been around between 50 and 90 years, they've been there and done that multiple times. So there is going to be power creep just to try to have something different. It happens every single time.
|
|
|
|
Post by Ricky Jackson on Apr 19, 2023 11:28:01 GMT -5
Brother Power the Geek was wonderful and shouldn't have been cancelled
|
|
|
|
Post by impulse on Apr 19, 2023 12:00:37 GMT -5
The thing is, that "power creep" is endemic to any serial fiction. It happens pretty much anywhere a character appears over a period of time. You can even see it in fairly small samples and time periods in movie franchises. John McClane started out as a slightly better than average guy with some police training in Die Hard. By the later films he's basically a superhero. When you have superheroes that have been around between 50 and 90 years, they've been there and done that multiple times. So there is going to be power creep just to try to have something different. It happens every single time. No argument here, and the McClane example is one I agree with. |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 19, 2023 12:03:44 GMT -5
Yes, I watched the fifth Die Hard on Disney+ last year. He’s a quasi-superhero now.
I like The Fast and The Furious film series, but while the first film’s plot does seem like something that could happen in the real world, I think we’re at the stage where it’s in superhero territory.
|
|
|
|
Post by impulse on Apr 19, 2023 13:10:34 GMT -5
I enjoy the first three Die Hard movies without qualification aside from one caveat - when John and Zeus fall from that wire line some 30+ feet onto concrete and get up fine? That broke suspension of disbelief, but I otherwise enjoyed the movie enough to let that one pass.
The 4th movie was ridiculous. McClane destroyed a helicopter with a motorcycle, and it was PG-13. It takes more than just violence and profanity to make a movie good, but what use does anyone have for a Die Hard movie without the catch phrase?
I didn't even bother with the fifth.
|
|
|
|
Post by codystarbuck on Apr 19, 2023 14:28:53 GMT -5
The second film destroyed any suspension of disbelief, for me. When the bad guys have control of the airport's communications and landing systems, the airport is helpless to get through to the planes, until the one guy brings up the air phones. However, Andrews Air Force Base is just up the road and they could have easily alerted them and had them contact the aircraft on their frequencies and redirect them for alternate landings. Not to mention, they could just take up an aircraft and use its radios to get in contact with the other aircraft. The whole control bit just wouldn't work. Then, there is McClane ejecting from a C-130 cargo plane. Cargo planes aren't equipped with ejector seats. Also, the plane is on the ground, so he would never have a chance to reach a high enough altitude for the chute to deploy and basically would have broken so many bones that he would be incapacitated, if not killed outright, just from blunt force trauma.
I was willing to accept that the air ducts in the Nakatomi building were big enough to accommodate a man (though have you ever looked at the ventilation system in a high rise?), I was willing to buy that he could still limp around after walking over the broken glass and I was willing to buy the last shot with the pistol. I smirked at the escape from the rooftop pad.
Still, the premise of these films centers around everyone but John McCalne being a moron. Which kind of gives you a picture of the average intellectual capacity in Hollywood.
|
|
|
|
Post by Slam_Bradley on Apr 19, 2023 14:35:44 GMT -5
The second film destroyed any suspension of disbelief, for me. When the bad guys have control of the airport's communications and landing systems, the airport is helpless to get through to the planes, until the one guy brings up the air phones. However, Andrews Air Force Base is just up the road and they could have easily alerted them and had them contact the aircraft on their frequencies and redirect them for alternate landings. Not to mention, they could just take up an aircraft and use its radios to get in contact with the other aircraft. The whole control bit just wouldn't work. Then, there is McClane ejecting from a C-130 cargo plane. Cargo planes aren't equipped with ejector seats. Also, the plane is on the ground, so he would never have a chance to reach a high enough altitude for the chute to deploy and basically would have broken so many bones that he would be incapacitated, if not killed outright, just from blunt force trauma. I was willing to accept that the air ducts in the Nakatomi building were big enough to accommodate a man (though have you ever looked at the ventilation system in a high rise?), I was willing to buy that he could still limp around after walking over the broken glass and I was willing to buy the last shot with the pistol. I smirked at the escape from the rooftop pad. Still, the premise of these films centers around everyone but John McCalne being a moron. Which kind of gives you a picture of the average intellectual capacity in Hollywood. I'd link to George Carlin talking about stupidity and the average person, but it's not safe for the site. Needless to say I just default to everyone being a moron and I'm seldom disappointed. |
|
|
|
Post by kirby101 on Apr 19, 2023 14:44:29 GMT -5
I thought the plot of DH #4 was clever and Oliphant made a good villain. But yeah, taking out a helicopter and a Harrier Jet was a bit much.
DH 5 was got into Fast and Furious territory.
|
|
|
|
Post by sunofdarkchild on Apr 19, 2023 15:00:19 GMT -5
I like the first 4 Die Hard movies, though 1 is obviously the best by far. Die Hard 5 was just stupid though.
|
|
|
|
Post by zaku on Apr 19, 2023 16:29:22 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by tarkintino on Apr 19, 2023 16:44:15 GMT -5
Wolverine had endured power creep on his healing factor for decades to where it was already getting silly, but in this story he is blown up and incinerated down to the Adamantium skeleton but somehow not only regenerated from that but within a short ish window I think. Maybe a few days in story? Wolverine has always been a ridiculous character who faced attacks that would destroy any living being, but he's "so awesome!!" thus it prevented any sort of story that placed him in any real danger--certainly none the readers would swallow. |
|
|
|
Post by impulse on Apr 19, 2023 16:46:03 GMT -5
Opinions on the Razzies in particular aside, I think there is room to recognize the difference between ribbing versus mocking someone for an illness or disability, even if unknowingly.
|
|
