|
|
Post by Slam_Bradley on Nov 16, 2015 11:45:26 GMT -5
Every other part of Watchmen could be awful and it would still get a 10 for issue number 5, which is, in my opinion, the most brilliant use of the standard comic format ever.
Luckily the only down part of the book is the ending. Space squid doesn't work for me either. But that aside it's still the number 2 or number 3 comic in my pantheon.
|
|
|
|
Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on Nov 16, 2015 12:05:55 GMT -5
The film was really strange for me, as it mostly looked good, but embarassingly lacked on what is called "between the panels" : it felt like a best off of scenes from the comic, a collecton of poorly jointed well crafted scenes. Oh, and the worst part obviously Ozymandias as you know from his first scene he is the bad guy, when the reveal in hte comic is much more subtle.
Oh, and honestly, I like the space squid ending.
I rate it a ten, and yet I find From Hell, Lost Girls, Promethea superior. I also put Big Numbers and a few short stories on a close level level.
He's simply the best storyteller in comics.
|
|
|
|
Post by Slam_Bradley on Nov 16, 2015 12:18:40 GMT -5
I'll also add that "Curse of the Black Freighter" is absolutely brilliant. And while one is free not to like it...if one doesn't...I find their judgement in comics to be suspect.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2015 12:29:53 GMT -5
I gave it a 10...also loved the film, never understood any of the negative reviews.
|
|
Crimebuster
CCF Podcast Guru
Making comics!
Posts: 3,959 
|
Post by Crimebuster on Nov 16, 2015 12:45:20 GMT -5
Even though I agree with some of the criticisms, I still gave it a 10. I too think movie ending was a better idea.
|
|
|
|
Post by Ozymandias on Nov 16, 2015 17:03:11 GMT -5
Mainly, two problems have been proposed: - The ending.
- The art (to a much lesser extent)
The ending. Other than citing Bunk, when he said that "the bigger the lie, the more they believe", blaming Dr. Manhattan was an invitation to further investigations. The plan had already been discovered once, because of the need to frame him, in order to get him out of the picture. Making Dr. Manhattan the one responsible for the massacre, opens that can of worms again. He was America's main military asset, and too much people would scrutinize the situation surrounding him. An alien invasion helps take the spotlight somewhere else, and nobody is going to find anything there, because anyone who would know about it, was dead. Only chance, allowed the Comedian to discover that part of the plan, while it was underway, but once all the loose ends were tied, that part of the plan was airtight. Rorschach's journal, only existed because of his suspicions regarding Dr. Manhattan, which illustrates how shaky that part of the plan was, but it couldn't be avoided. The movie ending, on the other hand, can and should be avoided. Furthermore, uniting every country on earth, against a common enemy, doesn't work so well, when that enemy was an american to begin with, the blaming game would ensue sooner or later. The art. For a long time, I also thought Watchmen would benefit from a different artist, but when I saw Jae Lee, taking a shot at the visit Blake paid Edgar Jacobi, I reconsidered. |
|
|
|
Post by Hoosier X on Nov 16, 2015 18:00:56 GMT -5
So ... did anybody else read the Watchmen prequels?
I liked the Silk Spectre series a lot, mostly for the Amanda Connor art.
The Minutemen series started out strong but the last few issues were disappointing.
The Dr. Manhattan series started very strong with a good concept but man o man did I not care by the time it was over.
The Comedian series had one issue that I loved, but the rest was a waste of time.
Everything else ran the gamut from uninteresting to misguided to terrible.
I keep The Silk Spectre in the box of comics I like to keep separate so I can find them easily because I read them once a year or so. (I've been thinking of moving that one issue of The Comedian into that box.)
|
|
|
|
Post by Warmonger on Nov 16, 2015 19:09:06 GMT -5
I'll give it an 8. Ground-breaking, ambitious, great world-building... but I loathed all the pirate crap, the "psychic squid" ending was utterly stupid, and I've never been particularly tempted to read it again. I'm also not a fan Dave Gibbons artwork generally. Curse of the Black Freighter was possibly my favorite part. Actually, I think I liked the supplemental material behind it even more -- the idea that, if Superheroes hadn't ended up dominating the comic book industry, something else could have. Moore really sold me on the idea that it could have been the Pirate genre. I really got into Curse of the Black Freighter and awaited the next installment even more intensely than I awaited the playing out of the main plot line, almost as if I was that kid at the newsstand. Yep A comic within a comic. Thought it was incredibly well done. I actually wish Moore would've done some sort of 'Curse of the Black Freighter' spinoff. Would love for ANYONE even remotely talented to tackle the pirate genre. Surprised anyone really hasn't. |
|
|
|
Post by Reptisaurus! on Nov 16, 2015 19:10:35 GMT -5
Yeah, all the superheroes stupiditying around took away from the awesome pirate action. But maybe they figured we could only handle so much awesome pirate story, so they needed to idiot the rest of the book up a notch with some grown adults in their jammy jams?
10 if considered against only factory system produced American mainstream comics, 8.5 against everything funny-books.
Amazing world building - it wasn't realistic per-se, but probably as strong verisimilitude-wise as any fantasy comic, some really cool formal tricks, and Hey! I like Steve Ditko too, so I'm not bothered by 500 pages of Ditko fan gushing.
But, honestly, it was a little too LOOK AT ME LOOK AT HOW CLEVER I AM LOOK AT THE CLEVER THING I DID! You can't really read it without being aware of the formal play, which makes it a little inferior in my brain to, say, Maus which is doing some pretty amazing stuff control-of-the-medium-wise but is far more subtle about it, so you can actually read the story without examining the story if you want to.
And, honestly, it doesn't stack up that well to some of Moore's other works. Thematically, V for Vendetta's thematic dissection of the relationship between politics and freedom and identity worked quite a bit better for me than Watchmen's theme of "Teh Superheroes are the Stupidzors! Nyah! Nyah! Nyah!" Some of the individual chapters got pretty deep, but I didn't see any particularly interesting thematic exploration and development throughout the whole work, which knocks it down a peg for me.
On the other hand, I really like the giant squid.
|
|
|
|
Post by Action Ace on Nov 16, 2015 19:15:02 GMT -5
On technical merit, it is the single best comic book story I've ever read. 11/10
I'm pro squid for the ending.
|
|
|
|
Post by Action Ace on Nov 16, 2015 19:21:37 GMT -5
I'll give it an 8. Ground-breaking, ambitious, great world-building... but I loathed all the pirate crap, the "psychic squid" ending was utterly stupid, and I've never been particularly tempted to read it again. I'm also not a fan Dave Gibbons artwork generally. Curse of the Black Freighter was possibly my favorite part. Actually, I think I liked the supplemental material behind it even more -- the idea that, if Superheroes hadn't ended up dominating the comic book industry, something else could have. Moore really sold me on the idea that it could have been the Pirate genre. I really got into Curse of the Black Freighter and awaited the next installment even more intensely than I awaited the playing out of the main plot line, almost as if I was that kid at the newsstand. I'm so thankful it didn't work out that way on our world. As brilliant as it is, I skip the Curse of the Black Freighter parts when rereading Watchmen these days. I just have no interest in the pirate genre at all. |
|
|
|
Post by Warmonger on Nov 16, 2015 20:51:33 GMT -5
Even if you're just going by modern comic standards...
A 'Curse of the Black Freighter" series done by, let's say, Garth Ennis and Sean Murphy?
Yeah, that's something I'd subscribe to.
That's something I could already picture...and it's awesome.
|
|
|
|
Post by pinkfloydsound17 on Nov 16, 2015 21:30:36 GMT -5
For me, I would also not change a thing.
Watchmen was the first "advanced" comic I read. Prior to this, I just collected Marvel and it was all mainly Spider-Man. The movie came out and I really enjoyed it so naturally, I had to read it. The story was fantastic, I am a big fan of the art too. As an English teacher, I find it as advanced as you can get for a comic book. It tackles big ideas and uses a lot of unique elements throughout telling the story. This is why I love the pirate side story. I also love the backstory on the heroes of yesterday very much and found it really added to the overall story. The ending is perhaps not as great but I think it still works out great. I am glad I read it after the movie because I developed an even greater appreciation for the story. Had it been the other way, I may still have enjoyed the story but maybe not the movie as much.
|
|
|
|
Post by batlaw on Nov 16, 2015 22:02:19 GMT -5
8.
I give it high marks. There's no way not to really. There's no denying how masterfully crafted it is or how inteligent, imaginative and original it was. It's beautiful in concept design and execution. That said, I enjoyed the movie more than the book. I didnt read the book till the movie was underway and a hearing it's praises for decades I bought it. I enjoyed it for what it was (the talent and intelligence involved was obvious) but it didn't sweep me away. I abandoned reading the pirate side story early and didn't care for the ending. I imagine if I had read it when originally released, I'd have been more impressed and think of it more fondly. As is I think I'm infatuated more with the idea and or just bits and pieces of watchmen than "Watchmen" proper.
I enjoyed some of the before watchman books but didn't find any to be incredible or necessary.
|
|
|
|
Post by wildfire2099 on Nov 16, 2015 22:35:10 GMT -5
Maybe it's because so many people imitated it later (many of which I read first), but I have never all that impressed. I've always like V for Vendetta more.
|
|
