|
|
Post by brutalis on Jun 13, 2021 14:48:50 GMT -5
Without looking it up, my 1st LOSH exposure was the Tornado Twins issue picked up during summer vacation up in Payson with my grandparents. Then I found the Cockrum issue with the intro of then Erg-1 soon to become Wildfire. Jump ahead and my next was the Grell Grimbore issue. I began to try picking up any LOSH from there. Was able grab a few Grell's towards the end of his run and much of the transitional time with James Sherman and others. Once they spun off into their own series I had all of the Joe Staton, Jimmy James runs and then once Levitz/Giffen came on board I was buying every issue all the way through the 2 Baxter series and until the 5YL finished.
During those years I was actively seeking out ANY LOSH I might afford. Mostly found in discount/markdowns with tears and stains as even early 80's collector pricing was pushing up the cost for Cockrum and Grell issues. I did score a good priced used Treasury edition of Lightning Lad an Saturn Girl's wedding and any digests or reprints of silver age Legion I could find.
It was a grand futuristic "adventure" (pun intended) with colorfully clad (or unclad during the Grell era) and unique powers I was enraptured with discovering. Perfect teen fun for those of who were actually teen or early 20 somethings. Now I have all the Showcase editions and have been picked up the 3 hardback trades collecting those early LOSH leading up to Giffen. Still a favorite for me right alongside Avengers, FF and the all new X-Men.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2021 15:31:04 GMT -5
Welcome, @supercat ! I grew up with the 70's Legion (I started collecting with Earthwar in 1978) and the Levitz Legion is definitely my first love, and I have to say that the Baxter series was pretty awesome. And two Legion titles per month - and both Levitz titles, no less - it was a great time to be a Legion fan! Thanks for that welcome, and Earthwar was the beginning for me as well!  Totally agree, it was very much a great time for Legion fans...the Legion really had it's day in the 80's in terms of sales and overall popularity. One of the things I really loved about the Baxter series was the art. The great late Steve Lightle and Greg LaRocque were great pencillers, and I do think Larry Mahlstedt as an inker should get a lot more credit (honestly I think the classic era should be called Levitz/Giffen/Mahlstedt). Plus remember those Ken Steacy covers later on? He was like the 80's Alex Ross! Without looking it up, my 1st LOSH exposure was the Tornado Twins issue picked up during summer vacation up in Payson with my grandparents. Then I found the Cockrum issue with the intro of then Erg-1 soon to become Wildfire. Jump ahead and my next was the Grell Grimbore issue. I began to try picking up any LOSH from there. Was able grab a few Grell's towards the end of his run and much of the transitional time with James Sherman and others. Once they spun off into their own series I had all of the Joe Staton, Jimmy James runs and then once Levitz/Giffen came on board I was buying every issue all the way through the 2 Baxter series and until the 5YL finished. During those years I was actively seeking out ANY LOSH I might afford. Mostly found in discount/markdowns with tears and stains as even early 80's collector pricing was pushing up the cost for Cockrum and Grell issues. I did score a good priced used Treasury edition of Lightning Lad an Saturn Girl's wedding and any digests or reprints of silver age Legion I could find. It was a grand futuristic "adventure" (pun intended) with colorfully clad (or unclad during the Grell era) and unique powers I was enraptured with discovering. Perfect teen fun for those of who were actually teen or early 20 somethings. Now I have all the Showcase editions and have been picked up the 3 hardback trades collecting those early LOSH leading up to Giffen. Still a favorite for me right alongside Avengers, FF and the all new X-Men. Very similar experience seeking out any Legion I could back in the day, and great description of the appeal of the Legion! I remember reading that ERG-1 issue and then Grimbor both in the digest below actually...such good memories!  |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2021 20:35:14 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by tonebone on Jun 15, 2021 8:53:52 GMT -5
I wasn't around when Shooter was active, but I'm sure those issues back then were thrilling. Some big stuff happened ! but they're more curiosities now IMO. The title really started to come into its own when Superboy left, and kicked into high gear with the Great Darkness Saga and later with the Baxter series. Right now, I'm kind of loving the campiness and big imagination of the whole thing. I'd imagine that goes away by the time of the Giffen Era. I expect to love both runs for entirely different reasons. I've been buying the hardcovers covering the 70's material.. (they pick up where the Archives leave off). "Campiness and big imagination" are great descriptions for this era. That doesn't really "go away" with the Giffen/Levitz era, but a new layer of New Teen Titans-style drama and long-form storytelling is overlaid, adding some depth. To be fair, Legion has always had pathos and long-form story elements, but with the Levitz era, they really came into their own. As Giffen took over more of the writing chores, the series became darker and the art more "Giffinish", and I bailed out. I love unfiltered Giffen on Ambush Bug, but little else. The Hardcovers I mention above start with "The Legion of Super-Heroes, Vol. 1, and Vol. 2", and the third volume is oddly named "Before the Darkness, Vol. 1" - I guess they are trying to get readers to hang on during a not-as-stellar period between the first two volumes, and the promise of "The Great Darkness Saga" era. |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2021 14:00:52 GMT -5
Right now, I'm kind of loving the campiness and big imagination of the whole thing. I'd imagine that goes away by the time of the Giffen Era. I expect to love both runs for entirely different reasons. I've been buying the hardcovers covering the 70's material.. (they pick up where the Archives leave off). "Campiness and big imagination" are great descriptions for this era. That doesn't really "go away" with the Giffen/Levitz era, but a new layer of New Teen Titans-style drama and long-form storytelling is overlaid, adding some depth. To be fair, Legion has always had pathos and long-form story elements, but with the Levitz era, they really came into their own. As Giffen took over more of the writing chores, the series became darker and the art more "Giffinish", and I bailed out. I love unfiltered Giffen on Ambush Bug, but little else. The Hardcovers I mention above start with "The Legion of Super-Heroes, Vol. 1, and Vol. 2", and the third volume is oddly named "Before the Darkness, Vol. 1" - I guess they are trying to get readers to hang on during a not-as-stellar period between the first two volumes, and the promise of "The Great Darkness Saga" era. That's a great description of how the series progressed. The Great Darkness Saga is obviously the well-known classic from the Levitz/Giffen era, but that Shrinking Violet storyline still gives me shivers. The Giffen art style change was pretty abrupt, and he went from one of my favorite artists to "thank goodness Lightle's on board" pretty quickly. I still find the 70's era art the most visually interesting though, with Cockrum, Grell, Sherman, and Staton and the character designs from that period. The contrast of say Giffen's Shadow Lass case in point. Also fully agree on your take on the changes as Giffen took over more of the writing. And likewise I did enjoy unfiltered Giffen on Ambush Bug, as well as that Legion of Substitute-Heroes special he did (that is still one of the funniest things I think I have ever read, that shot with Stone Boy stuck head first in the ground is priceless). I hope they also pick back up with the Baxter series reprints, we got the first two volumes but I would like to see more of that series in collected form. |
|
|
|
Post by dbutler69 on Jun 18, 2021 14:54:40 GMT -5
Right now, I'm kind of loving the campiness and big imagination of the whole thing. I'd imagine that goes away by the time of the Giffen Era. I expect to love both runs for entirely different reasons. I've been buying the hardcovers covering the 70's material.. (they pick up where the Archives leave off). "Campiness and big imagination" are great descriptions for this era. That doesn't really "go away" with the Giffen/Levitz era, but a new layer of New Teen Titans-style drama and long-form storytelling is overlaid, adding some depth. To be fair, Legion has always had pathos and long-form story elements, but with the Levitz era, they really came into their own. As Giffen took over more of the writing chores, the series became darker and the art more "Giffinish", and I bailed out. I love unfiltered Giffen on Ambush Bug, but little else. The Hardcovers I mention above start with "The Legion of Super-Heroes, Vol. 1, and Vol. 2", and the third volume is oddly named "Before the Darkness, Vol. 1" - I guess they are trying to get readers to hang on during a not-as-stellar period between the first two volumes, and the promise of "The Great Darkness Saga" era. You picked a good time to bail out. I didn't like it when things became more "Giffinish" and dark, either. Something else Levitz did during his second Legion run in the 80's was add a level of characterization that had never been seen before in the Legion. He also did a great job of having sub-plots going, and also added some viable supporting characters. |
|
|
|
Post by dbutler69 on Jun 18, 2021 14:58:34 GMT -5
I've been buying the hardcovers covering the 70's material.. (they pick up where the Archives leave off). "Campiness and big imagination" are great descriptions for this era. That doesn't really "go away" with the Giffen/Levitz era, but a new layer of New Teen Titans-style drama and long-form storytelling is overlaid, adding some depth. To be fair, Legion has always had pathos and long-form story elements, but with the Levitz era, they really came into their own. As Giffen took over more of the writing chores, the series became darker and the art more "Giffinish", and I bailed out. I love unfiltered Giffen on Ambush Bug, but little else. The Hardcovers I mention above start with "The Legion of Super-Heroes, Vol. 1, and Vol. 2", and the third volume is oddly named "Before the Darkness, Vol. 1" - I guess they are trying to get readers to hang on during a not-as-stellar period between the first two volumes, and the promise of "The Great Darkness Saga" era. That's a great description of how the series progressed. The Great Darkness Saga is obviously the well-known classic from the Levitz/Giffen era, but that Shrinking Violet storyline still gives me shivers. The Giffen art style change was pretty abrupt, and he went from one of my favorite artists to "thank goodness Lightle's on board" pretty quickly. I still find the 70's era art the most visually interesting though, with Cockrum, Grell, Sherman, and Staton and the character designs from that period. The contrast of say Giffen's Shadow Lass case in point. Also fully agree on your take on the changes as Giffen took over more of the writing. And likewise I did enjoy unfiltered Giffen on Ambush Bug, as well as that Legion of Substitute-Heroes special he did (that is still one of the funniest things I think I have ever read, that shot with Stone Boy stuck head first in the ground is priceless). I hope they also pick back up with the Baxter series reprints, we got the first two volumes but I would like to see more of that series in collected form. I agree with all of this. Dave Cockrum is my favorite all-time Legion artist. However, the Legion has had a lot of great artists over the years. Mike Grell was awesome, Sherman was also really good. I loved LaRocque and Lightle in the Baxter series, especially LaRocque. Luckily, I bought the whole Baxter series on the newsstand and still have them all but yeah, they should really collect the whole series. I think the Baxter series is the longest run of extended excellence in Legion history, though it took a downturn when Giffen returned with #50. |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2021 15:19:31 GMT -5
As I'm closing in on full runs of the main 70's and 80's Legion titles and related miniseries, I've been also trying to incorporate key appearances. I think I've got all the Brave and the Bold and DC Comics Presents ones, and some other ones (e.g. New Adventures of Superboy #50). But just found two I had completely missed: World's Finest #284 - A fairly pedestrian tale (Superman goes to the future to enlist the Legion to help him and Batman fight Composite Superman), but fun seeing the "old group" one more time in a story I had never read before. And a great Giffen/Mahlstedt cover.  The next one is still en route to me, but Shadow Lass co-starring in Secret Origins (vol. 2) #8:  Also starting a run on the 70's Karate Kid series. I only had the first issue as a kid, I've ordered a few of these plus the Kamandi issue that crosses over with the end of the series. I'm usually not a "completist" with a character/team, but for some reason I can never get enough Legion. |
|
|
|
Post by profh0011 on Jun 27, 2021 16:40:58 GMT -5
World's Finest #284
DAMN! I've never seen this.
|
|
|
|
Post by tarkintino on Jun 27, 2021 18:43:17 GMT -5
In the spirit of "Twisted ToyFare Theatre", I pulled out some of my Legion/Superman Family toys today:    Nice! DC Direct's Superboy/Supergirl (and pets) box set, along with the individually sold Mon-El and Braniac-5--some of the figures are either 20 or nearing two decades old, yet they are still great figure representations of the Silver Age era of the characters. |
|
|
|
Post by dbutler69 on Jun 28, 2021 5:24:36 GMT -5
As I'm closing in on full runs of the main 70's and 80's Legion titles and related miniseries, I've been also trying to incorporate key appearances. I think I've got all the Brave and the Bold and DC Comics Presents ones, and some other ones (e.g. New Adventures of Superboy #50). But just found two I had completely missed: World's Finest #284 - A fairly pedestrian tale (Superman goes to the future to enlist the Legion to help him and Batman fight Composite Superman), but fun seeing the "old group" one more time in a story I had never read before. And a great Giffen/Mahlstedt cover. The next one is still en route to me, but Shadow Lass co-starring in Secret Origins (vol. 2) #8: Also starting a run on the 70's Karate Kid series. I only had the first issue as a kid, I've ordered a few of these plus the Kamandi issue that crosses over with the end of the series. I'm usually not a "completist" with a character/team, but for some reason I can never get enough Legion. Good job! I think I've got every Legion 70's and 80's appearance. If you're going for all of their 70's and 80's appearances, don't forget JLA #147-148 (a JLA/JSA/Legion team-up!), DC Super-Stars #17, All-Collectors Edition C-55 (the treasury size comic with the wedding of Lightning Lad # Saturn Girl), DC Special Series #21 (a Christmas with the superheroes comic, with a new story with Colossal Boy - where we find out he's Jewish), Superman Family #207 (warning - the Legion don't do much in this story, though it's a pretty good Supergirl story), the Secrets of the Legion of Super-Heroes limited series, Best of DC Blue Ribbon Digest #24 (digest size comic with a new story where Colossal Boy's mother gets turned to glass, which IIRC, acts as a framing sequence to reprint another Legion story), New Adventures of Superboy #50, Booster Gold #8-9, Legion of Substiture Heroes Special, the Legionnaires 3 miniseries and the Cosmic Boy miniseries, Superman (1987 series) #8, Action Comics #591, and Wanderers #3. By the way, which Brave & Bold issues are you talking about? Do you mean #198? I have that, but I want to make sure I haven't missed any others. |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2021 7:39:54 GMT -5
Good job! I think I've got every Legion 70's and 80's appearance. If you're going for all of their 70's and 80's appearances, don't forget JLA #147-148 (a JLA/JSA/Legion team-up!), DC Super-Stars #17, All-Collectors Edition C-55 (the treasury size comic with the wedding of Lightning Lad # Saturn Girl), DC Special Series #21 (a Christmas with the superheroes comic, with a new story with Colossal Boy - where we find out he's Jewish), Superman Family #207 (warning - the Legion don't do much in this story, though it's a pretty good Supergirl story), the Secrets of the Legion of Super-Heroes limited series, Best of DC Blue Ribbon Digest #24 (digest size comic with a new story where Colossal Boy's mother gets turned to glass, which IIRC, acts as a framing sequence to reprint another Legion story), New Adventures of Superboy #50, Booster Gold #8-9, Legion of Substiture Heroes Special, the Legionnaires 3 miniseries and the Cosmic Boy miniseries, Superman (1987 series) #8, Action Comics #591, and Wanderers #3. By the way, which Brave & Bold issues are you talking about? Do you mean #198? I have that, but I want to make sure I haven't missed any others. I was hoping someone might have such a list, thank you sir! This is really helpful, and feeling good now that I can check off most of these that I already have, or the few I still need but were on the list to track down (DC Super-Stars #17 in particular I'm trying to get at a decent price, but it's worth it to me for the key Huntress appearance as well). However, I did not have Wanderers #3 on my radar, so again my appreciation! For Brave and the Bold, #198 is the Karate Kid appearance, but #179 has the whole team so I was counting both. Also, recently on my radar, DC Special #28. I think that's an original story as well. In your earlier post on the Baxter series where you said it took the downturn when Giffen came back at #50, those are the issues I'm really dragging my heels with. I have #60-63 already, but I need #51-59 and I'm just not excited about them. Again, I'm not normally a completist, but I know I need to bite the bullet at some point and just get it done. But they will be the absolute last in priority. |
|
|
|
Post by dbutler69 on Jun 28, 2021 12:09:39 GMT -5
Good job! I think I've got every Legion 70's and 80's appearance. If you're going for all of their 70's and 80's appearances, don't forget JLA #147-148 (a JLA/JSA/Legion team-up!), DC Super-Stars #17, All-Collectors Edition C-55 (the treasury size comic with the wedding of Lightning Lad # Saturn Girl), DC Special Series #21 (a Christmas with the superheroes comic, with a new story with Colossal Boy - where we find out he's Jewish), Superman Family #207 (warning - the Legion don't do much in this story, though it's a pretty good Supergirl story), the Secrets of the Legion of Super-Heroes limited series, Best of DC Blue Ribbon Digest #24 (digest size comic with a new story where Colossal Boy's mother gets turned to glass, which IIRC, acts as a framing sequence to reprint another Legion story), New Adventures of Superboy #50, Booster Gold #8-9, Legion of Substiture Heroes Special, the Legionnaires 3 miniseries and the Cosmic Boy miniseries, Superman (1987 series) #8, Action Comics #591, and Wanderers #3. By the way, which Brave & Bold issues are you talking about? Do you mean #198? I have that, but I want to make sure I haven't missed any others. I was hoping someone might have such a list, thank you sir! This is really helpful, and feeling good now that I can check off most of these that I already have, or the few I still need but were on the list to track down (DC Super-Stars #17 in particular I'm trying to get at a decent price, but it's worth it to me for the key Huntress appearance as well). However, I did not have Wanderers #3 on my radar, so again my appreciation! For Brave and the Bold, #198 is the Karate Kid appearance, but #179 has the whole team so I was counting both. Also, recently on my radar, DC Special #28. I think that's an original story as well. In your earlier post on the Baxter series where you said it took the downturn when Giffen came back at #50, those are the issues I'm really dragging my heels with. I have #60-63 already, but I need #51-59 and I'm just not excited about them. Again, I'm not normally a completist, but I know I need to bite the bullet at some point and just get it done. But they will be the absolute last in priority. If you're not familiar with the Wanderers, it's set at the same time as the Legion. It's basically a Legion spinoff, but I suppose it might be a bit confusing to just read that one issue without knowing much about them. Still worth it to have another Legion appearance, though.  DC Special Series #21 (not #28) does indeed have an original story. I think all of the stories in it are original, though only one is a Legion story. |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2021 10:12:26 GMT -5
DC Special Series #21 (not #28) does indeed have an original story. I think all of the stories in it are original, though only one is a Legion story. I'm actually thinking of DC Special (different series from DC Special Series), here's a link about it: legionofsuperbloggers.blogspot.com/2015/07/dc-special-28.htmlIt was reprinted in Legion Archive 13 which I have and I just re-read it this morning (I must have forgotten it existed). Sort of a basic short story, but actually kind of neat because it has a rare Chemical King appearance and he "does stuff" to boot! I was always intrigued by him as a kid, even though I couldn't really figure out how he was that different from Element Lad. I felt like he never really got a shot as a regular character before they killed him off. Levitz on script, Arvell Jones on pencils, and the Bob Layton inks give it a nice facelift as usual. |
|
|
|
Post by profh0011 on Jun 30, 2021 14:08:52 GMT -5
you said it took the downturn when Giffen came back at #50 I wouldn't say so.
I recall Paul Levitz saying he was feeling burned out and had been thinking of leaving the book earlier than he did, but Keith Giffen's return helped recharge his energy & enthusiasm.
Also, despite reports of almost non-stop "technical" problems putting together #50, I saw it as a real high point in that entire part of the run. It was the climax of about a 6-part story, shockingly far better than all the previous chapters put together (probably due to Giffen's story input & art).
What followed, strangely, was an odd mix, as the stories continued for at least a year being very good, but Giffen almost immediately began "mutating" his art style (AGAIN!). The most noticable quirk (best way I can put it), is he began making all the character look "square" and "blocky", with un-natural fat, square faces. Mike Decarlo (if memory serves) on inks gave it a striking look that reminded me of Jack Kirby and CHIC STONE. Except, with fat faces. (WTF?)
At some point, Al Gordon replaced DeCarlo, and the art took a slow but noticable NOSEDIVE. Also, the stories became increasingly downbeat.
And then "Magic Wars" arrived, and "IT HIT THE FAN". Giffen cut back to layouts, DeCarlo returned to do pencils and inks. It just didn't look right, the entire story MADE NO SENSE, and ended on a catastrophic downbeat note.
And then Karen Berger left as editor, and Paul Levitz left and accepted a promotion to Publisher.
And then things REALLY went COMPLETELY TO HELL. AND STAYED THERE.
I know... I know... a LOT of people beg to differ. I don't care. I lived thru that entire era, and I have no idea how I ever kept buying the book as it maneuvered thru one horrible disaster after another after another. Sometimes, these days, I have no idea why I haven't just taken ALL those issues out into the back yard and SET THEM ON FIRE, to exorcise them from my life (and my comics collection) once and for all.
|
|
