Who's going to pick it up? Cartoon Network and its affiliates, Nickelodeon and there's don't do animated series unless there is a toy line behind it (or other merchandise) and aims towards a very young demographic. Valiant has neither.

Disney has it's own line of heroes to market between Marvel and Star Wars and other properties so would have no interest in a Valiant product.

Fox has animation but most is comedy and the only comic property the licensed (Axe Cop) was more parody than serious adventure, so it doesn't fit the profile of what Fox does in their animation shows.

Original syndication is mostly dead and still requires a toy line behind it in most cases (Ponies, Joe, Transformers), or a recognizable property to hang its hat on.

Valiant doesn't have the foundation to break into the animation market on their own right now, and lacks an ally in a network that is doing animation that would find Valiant's IP a fit to what they are doing.

The closest they might find to a fit is Adult Swim and that is not going to build their profile to a bigger audience-and what comic related stuff they do (like Black Dynamite which also got a mini from IDW) is again more in the parody/comedy mode than straight adventure. Most of the straight adventure type stuff in Swim is anime based or styled, which is not really a good fit for Valiant either as it doesn't match the style of their printed material and would cause confusion in the brand, not build it.

Valiant needs to take a look at where the market is and what they have to do to build within that market and build their brand, but all they seem to be doing is a if we build it they will come hope for the best approach, which is skipping all the steps needed to make it work. I'd be happy if they succeeded, but no one trying to make it happen seems to be looking at the reality of the situation and working to make it work the way it needs to be done. They're trying to build a penthouse on a building that barely has a foundation and they don't seem to understand you need to build from the ground up step by step not throw stuff in the sky and hope it will stay up there somehow.

-M

That's not the way the entertainment world works though. Animation is either half hour comedy or toy tie in unless it is aimed at toddler age or less. That's it. No one is doing animation otherwise except Adult Swim and that is either parody or anime. Those are your markets unless you are going to build a new market as well as a new brand and that requires a lot of money for infrastructure for soemthing there is no visible demand for.

Valiant has absolutely zero brand recognition outside the hardcore comic shop audience.

They are not the biggest non-big 2 super-hero imprint. In January 2016 they didn't even have enough market share to get listed separately in the publisher market share listing of Diamond sales,they got lumped together in the "Other non-top 10 companies" category which, by the way, #10 moved less than 1.15% of the total dollars in the market and .92% of units (that was Dynamite by the way) so Valiant is less than that. Let that sink in, less than 1% of all the comics sold in the market place was a Valiant book. For every one hundred comics sold, less than 1 is a Valiant book. So Valiant isn't even a blip on the market share radar, and outside the direct market (which they are not even a blip on), they are less than that.

No one in entertainment is going to invest in Valiant unless they think it will be profitable. What does Valiant have to sell them? A shared universe that nobody knows? Characters nobody knows? It would be cheaper to do their own psi characters than try to develop Harbinger and easier to do your own armored hero than X-O. The fact that no one knows the characters so they are cheap is not a selling point. It's a reason to ignore the brand and either develop your own IP for other media or to put money into a brand that has a slim chance at recognition. The best selling titles of Valiant barely sell 10K copies when they launch and under 10K when they get past the third issue and retailers order to sales level. Trying to sell an IP that 10K people might now as something to invest in for bigger media isn't going to fly.

Valiant needs to grow their brand organically in small steps if they want to be able to make a big splash. If they try to go big too soon, it's their money they will have to invest because they are the only ones who believe in the brand, and if they gamble and lose, they are done and the money is gone in the wind.

They licensed their properties out to Amazon Worlds fan fiction, it's a small step basically giving away the IP to try to build a slightly more visible brand. It hasn't taken off. It hasn't funneled interest into the comics or the characters. They made their books available on every digital comic platform, not just Comixology but on those that specialize in digital distribution for self-published books that Diamond and Comixology generally ignore trying to get their product out in front of more eyes, and it hasn't translated into more demand yet.

They don't have a track record of success or sustained growth despite their efforts that would give someone the confidence to invest in their endeavor to breach the wider market.

If they are going to succeed, they (and their fans) need to do a reality check and understand where they are starting from.And they have to understand what the market is they are trying to break into and what sells and doesn't sell in that market. As you pointed out, Marvel and DC had years of success before they transitioned that success into the media juggernauts they are today. Valiant doesn't have the ammunition or the resources to do that out of the gate, they are far too small and unknown to make that leap yet and what they are selling isn't what is in demand by those producing or buying media in that bigger market. They need to find ways to grow organically, to have a bigger footprint, to solidify their foundation before they start shooting for the stars. They have a very small, but rabid fanbase, but they are not capable of doing the things Marvel and DC (with Disney and Time Warner behind them) are at this point. This is neither a good nor a bad thing, it is what it is. What they need to do is find a way to channel that rabid support into grassroots growth. But that takes, time, patience, a lot of resources, smart decisions on how to use those resources, and outside he box thinking instead of trying to do what the big boys are doing without the necessary components to do so.

I like their stuff and I hope they succeed, but their biggest enemy and obstacle to success is unrealistic expectations and poor decisions based on those fallacies that result.

-M

I was reading Valiant for the last two years or so. Back then, the New 52 wasn't doing it for me and I wad kinda disenchanted with the majority of Marvel's output. Valiant looked like something new and fresh to check out.

Which it was, I enjoyed most of what I read. But there seemed to be some form of disconnect between the books. They would try certain approaches to characters and books but they wouldn't carry that over into other books if those approaches didn't pan out. For example, Greg Pak was developing some interesting ideas in the first Eternal Warrior title but later volumes and appearances made little mention or usage of these ideas. Then there was the whole Shadowman disconnect.

I will give them credit though, for having and maintaining stable creative teams on most of their books, and for giving them latitude in developing their stories. Vendetti on X-O, Dysart on Harbinger, Van Lente on Archer & Armstrong. Then Dysart and Van Lente continuing their plots in Imperium and Ivar Timewalker.

Their crossovers were handled well. Harbinger Wars was good, Armor Hunters was ambitious but had some pitfalls in the tie-ins of some titles (I'm looking at you Unity).

The addition of Kindt and Lemire helped some. But sometimes I wonder if Valiant is material that I would find worthy of being re-read, as I do with more classic stories and titles.

But what really stung was Valiant's recent marketing ploy with the miniseries Book of Death. Alongside the mini, they would release a limited series called Legends of the Geomancer, that was ONLY available through retail store fronts. No digital copies were ever released and Valiant maintains that it will not be collected in trade. Retailers had to order # copies of issues of BOD to qualify for a couple copies of the LoTG mini.

Now, I bought digital only for all my Valiant purchases. I am not a collector, I could care less about variant covers, I only want to read a quality story. Yet in order to read LoTG, I would need to somehow persuade my LCS to order enough copies of BOD so I can get a copy. It's forcing me into a collector hunt, which is something I would want to do on my own terms, not theirs.

It's still frustrating. That, coupled with recent budget concerns, is why I've stopped reading most Valiant titles at the moment. As others have said, I enjoyed the stories but can I be invested enough to follow it regularly? 

Thought I might bump the thread for the sake of discussion of Valiant's new event, 4001 A.D., which began today

News to me.

Are they going to surprise us by revealing they've obtained the rights to Magnus?

Otherwise, how the hell does Valiant pull off a 4001 A.D. event? Rai can't carry it alone, can he?

Well they do own the rights to Tekla and the Steel Nation, if they choose to go that route.

I haven't bought any Valiant books in over 8 months, mainly due to rising medical bills.

But things have rebounded and my interest in the line has rekindled to a degree. Although now I hear that X-O is being cancelled or at least shelved for the time being (and perhaps Imperium as well).

I like their publishing model of different 'seasons' for different titles or for characters but I think they should at least have some core titles that remain stable throughout these season swaps.

Thankfully Comixology just had a Rai sale so I can at least catch up on his title though I've heard that Kindt may have been dragging plot threads out too slowly for some fans.

I did pick up this first issue of 4001 as well. So far, their events have been slightly better than the corporate-mandated ones of the Big Two so we'll see how this one shakes out.