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Post by Batflunkie on Feb 1, 2016 20:54:13 GMT -5
One topic that I've seen come up fairly often among causal comic book readers is the idea that a superhero/heroine with an all encompassing powerset equal to that of a god (like Superman for instance) is boring and is therefor unrelatable. Thoughts on this? Personally I find characters that are comparable to gods (like Dr. Solar, Firestorm, and Captain Atom) intriguing because they're still human and can err just as much we can
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Post by Deleted on Feb 1, 2016 21:31:51 GMT -5
Almost any character can be interesting with the correct writer. I find the escapism inherent with a character like Superman appealing as opposed to a street level character like Batman (although I love both).
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Post by Nowhere Man on Feb 1, 2016 21:33:32 GMT -5
I also find them interesting if well written, just like any character. Saying that powerful characters aren't "relatable" and using that as an excuse to dislike said characters, says more about the reader than the character in my experience. If every character has to be in some way relatable to you (a quirky teen, etc.), then that's on you. It usually shows a lack of empathy, understanding and imagination. I like characters I can relate to more or less directly, characters that might have one trait I relate to and characters I having nothing in common with, but nonetheless find fascinating.
A big problem with really powerful characters is how creators and editors use them. The Silver Surfer, as an example, runs out of things to do pretty fast if limited to Earth. What's the point? That was the main reason his original series only lasted 18 issues. You also have to factor in scale; if you match them up with villains that are as powerful or more powerful, then it can be just as exciting as Spider-Man vs Rhino.
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
Posts: 22,872
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Post by shaxper on Feb 1, 2016 21:48:04 GMT -5
I think the argument made more sense in the Silver Age. Ever since comics got more introspective, finding more rich conflict in internal struggles as opposed to external ones, the argument became meaningless. Superman can beat any bad guy, but can he beat the overwhelming responsibility that comes with being able to see and hear across the entire range of Metropolis? How does he ever manage to go to work as Clark Kent or sleep at night without constantly feeling the need to suit up and save the day for someone? What crimes does he choose to ignore (because he MUST choose to ignore some)? That's a rich psychological playground for any writer to play upon.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Feb 1, 2016 21:55:51 GMT -5
I might have thought this once upon a time. And I agree with Shax that it was worse in the Silver Age. See my dislike of Superman.
However, Ostrander and Mandrake's Spectre is one of my all-time favorite comics and there are precious few characters more powerful than The Spectre. Though I prefer Jim Corrigan to his alter-ego.
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Post by pinkfloydsound17 on Feb 1, 2016 22:35:09 GMT -5
I'm one of those. Try as I may, I have yet to read a Superman story (where he is the main character) that I like.
I just read Superman #9 by Byrne, Kesel et al. Basically, the Joker has a robot disguised as Superman steal a diamond. Superman "senses" this happening thanks to his super sense (he hears the alarm). He gets there, discovers inside the robot there is an atom bomb so what does he do? Flies it up to space where there is a huge explosion. Does he die? Of course not silly its Superman, only a green rock can kill him.
Moving on, he comes back, talks to police, they say "hey, the Joker is behind this" and he flies off, only to see a note from Joker on a balloon that says the Joker has his three closest friends hostage in lead caskets buried throughout the city. Superman can choose to chase the Joker or save his friends. In reality, the Joker does have Lois, Jimmy and someone else but they are fine and he is taking them elsewhere. He seems poised to escape when Superman lifts up the truck, carries him to prison and its the end. He finishes by explaining that while he cannot see through lead, the lead coffins that his friends were supposedly buried in still stood out so he found them real quick, determined they were empty and then somehow found the Joker. Magically. Or perhaps because of some radar watch Jimmy has which he alludes to earlier but does not admit that is how he found the Joker.
It's stupid. No real conflict. You never get great action. You get a god-like being who makes a cool villain look and act stupid. Aside from decent artwork, it's garbage IMO. I love the cover, I love the panels with the close up on Joker's face. But in terms of the character (and this holds true for the limited stories I have read) is just so repetitive. Superman confronts a few problems, uses powers he has and some he may never have before but of course he has because he is Superman and he wins. The end.
With Marvel and others, you get the impression that they could lose. You know deep down the hero won't but the hero still can die. If Spider-man gets shot, he is dead. If Daredevil gets hit by a bus, he is dead. Maybe it is Kent that brings Superman down for me. His alter ego is very limited and one dimensional too. That and his "disguise" is silly. No one in their right mind would be like "hey he has glasses, there is no way this hulking man is Superman even though he is a dead-ringer". Granted it is also unlikely someone like Spidey could keep his ID secret forever but the fact that there is a challenge and the stories show him balancing that with his fighting. The fact that he interacts while fighting and it is not simply a matter of picking up the hero, carrying them to prison and ending the fight.
Trust me, I want to like Superman. But like the Hulk, the limited and repetitive nature of the stories has turned me off. I will only collect issues where the artwork is particularly interesting, and even then I would rather spend my money on other heroes.
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Post by pinkfloydsound17 on Feb 1, 2016 23:14:13 GMT -5
Maybe that's it though. Marvel has just always been superior in their alter ego characterization. I find them genuinely interesting and when they do change and fight, an element of that stays the same. Superman is going the opposite way. He was born Superman and has to "change" to Clark Kent. I guess I just don't like that formula. That and witty fighting banter is a joy of mine, something Marvel mastered (some would say too much talking and quipping occurs when certain characters fight but I like it!)
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Post by berkley on Feb 1, 2016 23:24:04 GMT -5
The other thing about these over-powered characters is that most of their stories tend to be all about how superior they are, which gets old pretty fast. And other characters tend to be written poorly in order make the hero look better.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2016 8:05:03 GMT -5
My Top Fifteen of the Most Powerful Characters in Comic Books History
In order of strength, power, and abilities. It's not an easy list to do - but if a writer thinks up a way to utilize their potential they can be worthy to be top dog. These heroes are the Super Heavyweights of the All and having said that everyone on that list is a class by themselves and I'm might be wrong here and there and I do not want to open up to debate here - but, it's takes a writer to dream up a scenario that's makes them powerful and mighty. That's all I can say here.
Superman
Gladiator
Dr. Manhattan
Phoenix
Silver Surfer
Captain Marvel
Mighty Thor
Martian Manhunter
Incredible Hulk
Sentry
Wonder Woman
Hyperion
Power Girl
Supergirl
Black Bolt
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Post by Dizzy D on Feb 2, 2016 9:03:12 GMT -5
Let's see. These are some of my favourite comics:
Silver Surfer
Dr. Strange
Sandman
Lucifer
Peter David's Captain Marvel
The Authority
Miracleman
Legion of Superheroes
Casey's Mr. Majestic
All are about incredibly powerful characters or groups that have multiple incredibly powerful characters. The writers just keep you interested by either raising the challenge of the hero (villains who can't be defeated with %punching%) or make the story about something else than hero/villain fights (character interactions, the effect these beings have on the world around them etc.).
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2016 9:27:33 GMT -5
The other thing about these over-powered characters is that most of their stories tend to be all about how superior they are, which gets old pretty fast. And other characters tend to be written poorly in order make the hero look better. Except that's every Batman story written since the 1980s too it seems, and even though he has no powers, he is more unbeatable than those who wield god-like powers, but somehow he's relatable because he has no powers, except being a billionaire able to do anything because he trained hard when he was a youth. No matter how powerful you are, Batman is superior....talk about getting old real fast. -M |
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Post by Trevor on Feb 2, 2016 10:08:00 GMT -5
The other thing about these over-powered characters is that most of their stories tend to be all about how superior they are, which gets old pretty fast. And other characters tend to be written poorly in order make the hero look better. Except that's every Batman story written since the 1980s too it seems, and even though he has no powers, he is more unbeatable than those who wield god-like powers, but somehow he's relatable because he has no powers, except being a billionaire able to do anything because he trained hard when he was a youth. No matter how powerful you are, Batman is superior....talk about getting old real fast. -M I don't read a lot of Batman, but haven't a lot of his storylines the last 10 years or so been about him failing? |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2016 10:12:12 GMT -5
Except that's every Batman story written since the 1980s too it seems, and even though he has no powers, he is more unbeatable than those who wield god-like powers, but somehow he's relatable because he has no powers, except being a billionaire able to do anything because he trained hard when he was a youth. No matter how powerful you are, Batman is superior....talk about getting old real fast. -M I don't read a lot of Batman, but haven't a lot of his storylines the last 10 years or so been about him failing? You mean after he single-handedly takes down the entire Justice League and faces Darksseid one-on-one? Must be a different character then... -M |
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Post by Icctrombone on Feb 2, 2016 10:16:15 GMT -5
I guess MOST of these superhero stories are about the protagonist losing the first round only to "figure it out" and win at the end. It'd be kind of boring if it was just them winning outright. Lot's of 5 page stories that way.  |
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Post by Icctrombone on Feb 2, 2016 10:18:05 GMT -5
There was a period when I saw Superman and Iron Man as the Favorites in any battle against their opponents. It just means that you have to give them different types of obstacles to overcome.
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