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Post by dbutler69 on Oct 19, 2022 14:32:02 GMT -5
I basically agree that Avengers went downhill fast at #300, though I would actually say that the decline happened a little bit earlier than that. Still, 300 is a pretty good place to stop. I was thinking of getting the Avengers: Acts of Vengeance Epic Collection that starts shortly. What a buzzkill. I only read a few sporadic post-300 issues of Avengers vol. 1 at the time it came out, and I've really stopped at #300 in my back issue purchase (though I do have another Epic Collection in my To Read Pile). Sorry about that. The Acts of Vengeance stuff is okay. Not terrible, but certainly nothing special, IMHO. I do like the concept, though. For what it's worth, I read through all of my old Avengers and I stopped after #297 this time. |
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Post by dbutler69 on Oct 19, 2022 14:34:33 GMT -5
Reading through the Superman Chronicles and have finished Superman #3. I just have to repeat what a terrible person Lois Lane is in these early stories! She has to be the most unlikeable person I've ever encountered in a comic book. It's almost funny. I think Clark would be better off getting a date with the Ultra-Humanite.
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Post by spoon on Oct 19, 2022 16:30:28 GMT -5
I was thinking of getting the Avengers: Acts of Vengeance Epic Collection that starts shortly. What a buzzkill. I only read a few sporadic post-300 issues of Avengers vol. 1 at the time it came out, and I've really stopped at #300 in my back issue purchase (though I do have another Epic Collection in my To Read Pile). Sorry about that. The Acts of Vengeance stuff is okay. Not terrible, but certainly nothing special, IMHO. I do like the concept, though. For what it's worth, I read through all of my old Avengers and I stopped after #297 this time. Although they chose Acts of Vengeance as the subtitle, it doesn't have any Acts of Vengeance issues from other titles, except for WCA. It's a pretty standard Epic Collection: a bunch of consecutive issues of Avengers (some of which happen to be AoV) plus an annual and those 3 WCA issues. On the other hand, the Avengers: Operation Galactic Storm Epic Collection has every part of the crossover, so it actually only includes 3 issues of Avengers. |
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Oct 20, 2022 10:41:12 GMT -5
Did a re-read (for the first time in at least a decade) of the original Ambush Bug mini-series. Still a madcap, stream-of-consciousness, hilarious read. Giffen never quite captured that lightning again with the character. Also did a re-read of the Legion of Substitute Heroes Special #1. Probably closer to 20 years since I've read this one. It didn't hold up as well as Ambush Bug. It just never seemed to coalesce in to a coherent (or adequately incoherent) whole. Still enjoyable. But not a patch on the Bug.   |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2022 11:35:27 GMT -5
Did a re-read (for the first time in at least a decade) of the original Ambush Bug mini-series. Still a madcap, stream-of-consciousness, hilarious read. Giffen never quite captured that lightning again with the character. Also did a re-read of the Legion of Substitute Heroes Special #1. Probably closer to 20 years since I've read this one. It didn't hold up as well as Ambush Bug. It just never seemed to coalesce in to a coherent (or adequately incoherent) whole. Still enjoyable. But not a patch on the Bug. Giffen's subversive wit was in top form back then, and I agree, the original Ambush Bug series was top notch. I would add the later Stocking Stuffer one-shot as well for favorite AB books, I think he brought a lot of the crazy on that one as well:   The Subs special is a favorite for me as well, it may get some extra mileage if you're a Legion fan, it was pretty brilliant IMO after having pretty much read everything with the Subs prior to that. This scene alone still cracks me up big-time to this day, not to mention the shots of Stone Boy chunked into the ground (even with the many other zany Legion characters over the years, the sheer worthlessness of his powers was ripe for Giffen's humor).  |
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Post by MDG on Oct 20, 2022 12:26:37 GMT -5
Did a re-read (for the first time in at least a decade) of the original Ambush Bug mini-series. Still a madcap, stream-of-consciousness, hilarious read. Giffen never quite captured that lightning again with the character. Also did a re-read of the Legion of Substitute Heroes Special #1. Probably closer to 20 years since I've read this one. It didn't hold up as well as Ambush Bug. It just never seemed to coalesce in to a coherent (or adequately incoherent) whole. Still enjoyable. But not a patch on the Bug. Giffen's subversive wit was in top form back then, and I agree, the original Ambush Bug series was top notch. I would add the later Stocking Stuffer one-shot as well for favorite AB books, I think he brought a lot of the crazy on that one as well: The Subs special is a favorite for me as well, it may get some extra mileage if you're a Legion fan, it was pretty brilliant IMO after having pretty much read everything with the Subs prior to that. This scene alone still cracks me up big-time to this day, not to mention the shots of Stone Boy chunked into the ground (even with the many other zany Legion characters over the years, the sheer worthlessness of his powers was ripe for Giffen's humor). ... If it wasn't for this era of Giffen, I probably would've given up on mainstream comics 7-10 years before I actually did. They were enough of a palette cleanser to offset the overserious stuff. (I also love the 3-4 issues of Action Giffen did.) Some of the few 80s DCs I consider in the "permanent? collection.
I've been reading this Halloween thing he did a while back which is just dark, out-of-continuity takes on DC characters. WHY!?!?!
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Post by Rob Allen on Oct 20, 2022 12:37:50 GMT -5
From the late 1980s, I've recently discovered The Desert Peach by Donna Barr. In the North Africa front in WWII, the Nazi army was led by Gen. Erwin Rommel, nicknamed "The Desert Fox". This comic is about his (fictional) brother, the flamboyantly gay Col. Pfirsich Rommel, aka "The Desert Peach". It's hysterically funny, with surprisingly well-rounded characters. I read the first couple of issues in a TPB from the library but I just found out that the whole thing is on webtoons: www.webtoons.com/en/challenge/the-desert-peach/list?title_no=298262&page=1 |
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Post by Hoosier X on Oct 20, 2022 16:14:18 GMT -5
From the late 1980s, I've recently discovered The Desert Peach by Donna Barr. In the North Africa front in WWII, the Nazi army was led by Gen. Erwin Rommel, nicknamed "The Desert Fox". This comic is about his (fictional) brother, the flamboyantly gay Col. Pfirsich Rommel, aka "The Desert Peach". It's hysterically funny, with surprisingly well-rounded characters. I read the first couple of issues in a TPB from the library but I just found out that the whole thing is on webtoons: www.webtoons.com/en/challenge/the-desert-peach/list?title_no=298262&page=1I started reading The Desert Peach about number 20 and very quickly had all the back issues, many of them through the collected editions. I picked up every issue as it came out for a very long time. Looking online, I see the series made it to #32, but I think I may have missed the last few issues. I’ll have to check out that link and figure out which issues I missed, and maybe try to find out how much it would cost to get the issues I missed. I once made a list of my 25 favorite comics. Desert Peach #13 was on the list. |
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Post by Hoosier X on Oct 20, 2022 16:24:22 GMT -5
I read up to #28. I ordered #29 off eBay just now.
Thanks for reminding about this great comic! I had a T-shirt back in the day. It’s long gone. I wore it to rags.
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Post by Calidore on Oct 20, 2022 18:57:44 GMT -5
I think I read the first couple of issues of Desert Peach, but never got further for whatever reason. Her Stinz is one of my all-time top 10, though. Especially the Dreamery run and first series are just fantastic.
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Post by berkley on Oct 20, 2022 20:43:13 GMT -5
Did a re-read (for the first time in at least a decade) of the original Ambush Bug mini-series. Still a madcap, stream-of-consciousness, hilarious read. Giffen never quite captured that lightning again with the character.
I remember liking this at the time but lost my copies in the 1980s, probably when I moved away from university, and I've never re-read or even seen it anywhere since. Perhaps I'll see if I can add it to my next Mycomics order, though I'm not sure how it would strike me now, reading it again after all these years.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Oct 21, 2022 16:32:44 GMT -5
Did a re-read (for the first time in at least a decade) of the original Ambush Bug mini-series. Still a madcap, stream-of-consciousness, hilarious read. Giffen never quite captured that lightning again with the character. Also did a re-read of the Legion of Substitute Heroes Special #1. Probably closer to 20 years since I've read this one. It didn't hold up as well as Ambush Bug. It just never seemed to coalesce in to a coherent (or adequately incoherent) whole. Still enjoyable. But not a patch on the Bug. Giffen's subversive wit was in top form back then, and I agree, the original Ambush Bug series was top notch. I would add the later Stocking Stuffer one-shot as well for favorite AB books, I think he brought a lot of the crazy on that one as well: I read the Stocking Stuffer yesterday and it was a hoot. But I'm struggling with Son of Ambush Bug. Possibly too much at once. Or possibly the creators have lost focus...or lack thereof. |
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Post by spoon on Oct 22, 2022 15:25:07 GMT -5
I read the Sensational She-Hulk Graphic Novel (as reprinted in the Women of Marvel Omnibus). Then I read She-Hulk Epic Collection vol. 3: Breaking the Fourth Wall, reprinting Sensational She-Hulk #1-12; the She-Hulk stories from Solo Avengers #14, Marvel Comic Presents #18, and Marvel Fanfare #48; and She-Hulk: Ceremony #1-2. The only story here that I've previously read was the one from MCP, although I have read a She-Hulk issue from Byrne's second run.
John Byrne writes and pencils the GN, which was published during his Fantastic Four run while She-Hulk was a member. It's significantly different from the innovative take Byrne would bring to the ongoing series. She-Hulk spends more time dealing with SHIELD goons than the ultimate villain. The points of the story seem to be to remove She-Hulk ability to revert to Jennifer Walters and for Byrne to work a porn scenario into the plot.
The Solo Avengers story is by Chris Claremont & Alan Davis. It's a better read than one normally gets from a short story like this. It's got a bit of humor, but nothing like what Byrne would later do. Claremont manages to work in a plotline from his regular books by having She-Hulk argue before the Supreme Court regarding the Mutant Registration Act. The courtroom dialogue isn't that good though.
The MCP story gives a preview of the breaking the fourth wall element, as She-Hulk acknowledges the story is basically an ad for the new series. For the most part, I really enjoyed the 8 issues in Byrne's first run. It works simultaneously for its satirical and metafictional humor, and as a super-hero series. Byrne jokes about different comic tropes without belittling the idea of reading and enjoying comics. Byrne has developed a reputation as a bitter, angry guy, but the only place where that comes to the fore is in the gag from #5 where She-Hulk tears through the pages and there's a two-page spread of a comic mail order ad. The "jokes" in the faux ad are basically just unfunny insults at other people's work he doesn't like (and possibly hasn't even read).
I love the use of the Headmen as villains. I only read the Defenders story featuring the Headmen in the past few years, and they're fascinatingly bizarre. The Blonde Phantom story in #5 is the high-water mark of the 8-issue run. It really digs into the metaphysical possibilities and the interplay with comics history. I think my second favorite is #8, with a very entertaining take on Santa Claus. We also have a subplot with She-Hulk daydreaming about Hercules. This seems like a pastiche of the Superman/Wonder Woman plotline that Byrne and George Perez ran in their titles a year or two before this.
In #6 and #7, Byrne follows on plotlines from the short-lived trucking comic book US1 with a journey to outer space! Byrne lets the characters take themselves seriously with the premise itself carry the humor. Razorback (a small-time hero from Spectacular Spider-Man) guest-stars. To explain why one of the US1 cast members turned to Razorback for this space, Razorback matter-of-factly explains he's the only super-hero who is also a trucker. I've never read an issue of US1 before (although it was familiar enough that I suspect I read a Marvel Universe profile at some point), but Byrne does a good job recapping the old plotlines. We also get Xemnu, so that's cool. Al Gordon inks #6, and I enjoyed the art more than the issues by regular inker Bob Wiacek.
After Byrne is fired, we get a fill-in issue by co-writers who I think of more as an assistant editor/colorist (Gregory Wright) and a letterer (Richard Starkings). Interestingly, this is the issue that most closely matches the tone of Byrne's issues. Then, Steve Gerber comes on for 2 issues (#10-11), joining Bryan Hitch, who seemed to have rushed his pencils for #9 (or maybe it was the hodgepodge of inkers). Given how Byrne seemed to be inspired by Gerber (using the Headmen and Doctor Bong in his issues), Gerber seems like a natural choice. Although Gerber keeps it weird, it's a different type of weird. I'm not sure he even had an instance of She-Hulk being aware she's in a comic. It's more like social/political satire. In #12, we get a satire on filmmaking from Peter David, Steve Leialoha, and Trina Robbins. David can produce smart writing, but this issue falls flat.
The TPB ends with stories outside the ongoing series. An issue of Marvel Fanfare was supposed to contain three treatments of She-Hulk, but ends up with two since Byrne didn't want to do it after his firing. The first story has nice art from Kerry Gammill and a bit of body horror. It also tries to tell a story about Jen's family. The villain chews the scenery quite a bit so the finished product isn't as good as the regular series. The second story is mediocre.
Ironically, the TPB ends with She-Hulk: Ceremony, the two-part mini-series that precipitated Byrne's firing. This seems like it could've been slotted into a subsequent TPB, because it doesn't seem to require a specific placement with regard to the issues here from the regular series. From what I've read online, the mini was in development around the time Byrne was first planning out his series. Byrne was given the plot to offer feedback on how to make the ongoing and mini consistent. He had several objections, many related to Wyatt Wingfoot. I'm unclear on exactly what happened, but it sounds like Byrne was dissatisfied with response of editor Bobbie Chase and lost out on a her or me ultimatum to EIC Tom DeFalco. The mini was written by Robin Chaplik (who I've never heard of) & Dwayne McDuffie, with art by June Brigman and Stan Drake. A lot of the plot centers around Wyatt's tribe. I think it tries to impose historical problems in the treatment of Native Americans rather than dealing with contemporary issues in a way that doesn't really fit. While there are some interesting things done with coloring, it's also pretty tedious. I wished the page count were shorter as I was slogging through it. To be honest, if I were to re-read this TPB someday, I'd probably skip this. It's sad this led to Byrne's firing.
We get some extras, mostly from Marvel Age articles. There's more in the way of spoilers than I'd expect. One tidbit we do get is that Byrne was planning to get to a story involving Black Talon by around #7. I know from covers that this is something that Byrne ended up doing in his second She-Hulk run instead. Somehow Byrne ended up going with the US1 story first instead.
I enjoyed Byrne's first She-Hulk run enough, that I'd really like to read the second run.
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Post by Ozymandias on Oct 22, 2022 15:40:27 GMT -5
To me, the Avengers hits a rough patch of about a dozen or so issues starting with #200 (though I think #201 was very good) then Shooter does some issues which are pretty good, then Stern shows up for a long run which was excellent, then the series really goes downhill after he left. Well it sounds like Stern still hasn't hit his high point yet, so that gives me confidence that the run will continue to get better. I chose to stop at #300 because several folks suggested that the Avengers went downhill fast only a handful of issues earlier, so I figured why not make it an even number? #300 it's the end of the Simonson run, in that respect it's more than a round number, but 297-300 are Inferno tie-ins, so there's that. |
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Post by dbutler69 on Oct 23, 2022 14:25:06 GMT -5
I read The New Adventures of Superboy #54. This is the last issue of this series, and it must have been cancelled abruptly, because there are a couple of major plotlines left unresolved. First, there's the love triangle with Clark, Lisa Davis (I wish Clark had married Lisa! She's sooo much nicer than Lana or Lois! She's kind and sweet and actually likes Clark for himself - she's not the least bit interested in Superboy!) as Lana all of a sudden becomes interested in Clark after he starts dating Lisa. Then, there's the plotline where the crooked city council president is trying to get a deal approved to sell a bunch of his land just outside town sold to some real estate developers who want to build a mall, because he stands to make millions. Pa Kent is convinced to run for city council to get the deal nixed (which will almost certainly put most of the small local stores out of business, including Pa Kent's store!) and "somebody" (who is of course the city council president) tries to scare Pan Kent into not running, even going so far as to hire thugs to threaten Pan Kent's life.
I really loved the fact that they started focusing on the Smallville supporting cast in recent issues. This makes it more interesting than a bunch of superhero fights, and also makes it seem more like a real, live town. There was also a nice subplot where some kid who had temporarily been a supervillain gets shunned by some of the local boys (so we get to see more of Clark's schoolmates) and the local bully who usually picks on Clark actually goes against type and allows this pariah to play ball with them! much to Clark's (and our) surprised and delight.
What a shame that this series got cancelled as it was getting good! This was 1984 so I think it was too soon for Crisis on Infinite Earths to be the cause, plus in the letter column they announced an upcoming Superboy/Supergirl special, so they obviously weren't ready to sacrifice those to to COIE just yet. By the way, as far as I can tell, that Superboy/Supergirl Special (I think they even said it would be 48 pages) never happened as far as I could tell. I wasn't able to find any evidence of it on comics.org, anyway.
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