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Post by Action Ace on May 25, 2016 20:35:16 GMT -5
I'm so glad I avoided all the spoilers. Geoff, it was a great ride and Justice League #50 was excellent as well. Hopefully, his absence from writing DC Comics will be a short one. Now to pop some popcorn and go read the RAGE!!!! (with bonus Captain America #1 RAGE it seems)
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Post by Gene on May 25, 2016 20:42:30 GMT -5
I'm actually kind of glad that this book was spoiled for me. It gave me the chance to get all of the RAGE out of my system before reading it and I was able to enjoy the story without getting hit with another DC shocker.
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Post by dupersuper on May 26, 2016 2:39:41 GMT -5
Wow, Alan Moore really hurt some feelings over at DC when he told it like it is, didn't he? While Moore is obviously a much better writer than Johns, I'm kind of ok with his needling him with this after Moores going after Johns for using his Green Lantern stuff. Green Lantern ain't Watchmen, and Moore knows how mainstream super hero universes work. Johns is as allowed to use Moores GL stuff as Moore was to dig out Floronic Man for his Swamp Thing run.
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Post by Nowhere Man on May 26, 2016 2:51:31 GMT -5
Wow, Alan Moore really hurt some feelings over at DC when he told it like it is, didn't he? While Moore is obviously a much better writer than Johns, I'm kind of ok with his needling him with this after Moores going after Johns for using his Green Lantern stuff. Green Lantern ain't Watchmen, and Moore knows how mainstream super hero universes work. Johns is as allowed to use Moores GL stuff as Moore was to dig out Floronic Man for his Swamp Thing run. The difference is that Moore, while using established characters, created extremely original takes and story-lines that did things we never saw before. Johns is just playing in the story framework of what Moore created. It's like how Marvel can't resist rehashing The Dark Phoenix saga with mediocre variation after variation to the present day. You can't get out of Moore's creative shadow by constantly rehashing his plots and story-lines. If Moore practiced what Johns does, he never would have written Watchmen or even Swamp Thing.
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Post by tingramretro on May 26, 2016 2:58:46 GMT -5
Does anybody know where the JSA is in all of this? I thought they were to be a big part, or is that yet to come? This is really all I'm interested in knowing...
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Post by dupersuper on May 26, 2016 3:22:05 GMT -5
While Moore is obviously a much better writer than Johns, I'm kind of ok with his needling him with this after Moores going after Johns for using his Green Lantern stuff. Green Lantern ain't Watchmen, and Moore knows how mainstream super hero universes work. Johns is as allowed to use Moores GL stuff as Moore was to dig out Floronic Man for his Swamp Thing run. The difference is that Moore, while using established characters, created extremely original takes and story-lines that did things we never saw before. Johns is just playing in the story framework of what Moore created. It's like how Marvel can't resist rehashing The Dark Phoenix saga with mediocre variation after variation to the present day. You can't get out of Moore's creative shadow by constantly rehashing his plots and story-lines. If Moore practiced what Johns does, he never would have written Watchmen or even Swamp Thing. Meh. He knew he was adding to the communal toy chest. Chiding some one for using the toys he left seems petty.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2016 6:46:28 GMT -5
In fairness, Moore's objection wasn't that they were using his left-over toys, it was that they were creating a monumental edifice based on his toys and weren't creating any new ones.
(I haven't read enough modern DC to know whether this is a fair criticism or not. Though my money is on Moore)
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Post by Roquefort Raider on May 26, 2016 7:31:32 GMT -5
In fairness, Moore's objection wasn't that they were using his left-over toys, it was that they were creating a monumental edifice based on his toys and weren't creating any new ones. (I haven't read enough modern DC to know whether this is a fair criticism or not. Though my money is on Moore) I believe that's a spot-on analysis, but Alan knows that's how things work at DC and Marvel. His criticism of the way things are is justified as a general stance, but his protesting that DC is exploiting his work-for-hire stuff in an uninteresting and unoriginal way is like blaming pigs for being dirty. It starts with a plant elemental, and pretty soon we have a fire elemental, a meat elemental, a water elemental and an unavoidable "war of the elementals" crossover. Come up with a neat Batman: year one story, and naturally we'll get a Batman: year two and a Batman: year three down the line. Even a throwaway line in a movie ("clearly you've never been to Singapore") warrants its own expansion in a miserable sequel. Alan Moore my be upset by the use of his Green Lantern ideas in less than stellar ways, but can he imagine how Jack Kirby felt about having Darkseid and the New Gods turned into running gags? Work for hire is like sending your children to the sausage factory. Dave Sim said it a long, long time ago : the way to go is not to sell your creations to corporate interests. Rent them if you must, but never forget that whatever you give away will be squeezed for all it's worth with little respect for artistic integrity.
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Post by Deleted on May 26, 2016 8:24:27 GMT -5
I read it last night and loved it. First time I felt like I was reading a DC comic in several years. For me, it is a step in the right direction and I hope DC higher ups don't screw this up.
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Post by Action Ace on May 26, 2016 12:10:33 GMT -5
Does anybody know where the JSA is in all of this? I thought they were to be a big part, or is that yet to come? This is really all I'm interested in knowing... Wally encounters Johnny Thunder in a rest home. He tells Johnny that he needs to use the genie to bring back the JSA. It seems he used the thunderbolt to spirit the JSA away during the McCarthy hearings and only the genie can bring the JSA back. He yells Cei-U thunderbolt, but nothing happens. Johnny pleads for the thunderbolt to come back and "he didn't mean to throw you away." Dr. Fate also shows up to talk to Ted Kord. (if that is Ted) At the end of Dr. Fate #12, the new guy, Khalid Nassour, meets his great uncle, Kent Nelson. Uncle Kent says that Khalid has something that belongs to him. Dr. Fate is supposed to be in the new Blue Beetle series, so we'll see if this series goes past issue #15. Earth 2 also has a future solicitation about their planet being "rebooted" and the Ultra Humanite showed up at the end of issue #12. This series is also going forward, so it remains to be seen if anything regarding the original JSA will pop up in this series.
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Post by tingramretro on May 26, 2016 12:13:41 GMT -5
This is really all I'm interested in knowing... Wally encounters Johnny Thunder in a rest home. He tells Johnny that he needs to use the genie to bring back the JSA. It seems he used the thunderbolt to spirit the JSA away during the McCarthy hearings and only the genie can bring the JSA back. He yells Cei-U thunderbolt, but nothing happens. Johnny pleads for the thunderbolt to come back and "he didn't mean to throw you away." Dr. Fate also shows up to talk to Ted Kord. (if that is Ted) At the end of Dr. Fate #12, the new guy, Khalid Nassour, meets his great uncle, Kent Nelson. Uncle Kent says that Khalid has something that belongs to him. Dr. Fate is supposed to be in the new Blue Beetle series, so we'll see if this series goes past issue #15. Earth 2 also has a future solicitation about their planet being "rebooted" and the Ultra Humanite showed up at the end of issue #12. This series is also going forward, so it remains to be seen if anything regarding the original JSA will pop up in this series. OK, now I'm actually excited!
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Post by Gene on May 26, 2016 12:57:14 GMT -5
Does this retroactively make Zack Snyder's Watchmen the first movie in DC's film franchise?
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Post by Action Ace on May 26, 2016 13:29:38 GMT -5
from elsewhere...
POSTER #1: Doesn't DC realize Alan Moore commands powerful dark magic forces? They shouldn't make him mad!
POSTER #2: What's Alan going to do? Have Didio edit more books? Make Zack Snyder direct more movies?
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Post by String on May 26, 2016 17:41:15 GMT -5
I have never understood the fanboy perception of placing Watchmen atop some jeweled pedestal on the crest of Olympus, untouchable by all save Moore. It's DC property for better or worse, they can do whatever they want with it. Unless you are hired by DC, the most you can do in any such situation as this is support any new material by buying/reading it or boycott it by not buying/reading it. Either way, it's not going to change the original miniseries in your library.
As for Rebirth, loved it, by far the best DC comic I've read in some time. Yes, I'm a Wally West fan and this is a day that I've been looking forward to ever since the end of Flashpoint. Johns hit all the right emotional beats, the scenes between Wally and Linda were sad and poignant, and the reunion scenes between Wally & Barry almost brought a tear to my eye. It's like reading a semblance of DC of yore.
With these new plot lines for Green Lantern, WW, Flash, the Titans, Blue Beetle, my interest in DC has rocketed now in seeing how these stories may play out.
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Post by Trevor on May 26, 2016 19:37:23 GMT -5
I'll admit I teared up at least once while reading it. Didn't except to, I was never a Wally guy (grew up on Barry), but darn if Johns didn't manipulate my feelings all book long.
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