|
|
Post by Batflunkie on Mar 5, 2016 15:26:13 GMT -5
If DC really wanted to make it easy for new readers and make a bold move they'd do what they've never done before: Start completely from scratch. No prior continuity, no established heroes, start right from the beginning with Superman and Batman's first adventures. Earth-2, Crisis, Zero Hour, Infinite Crisis, the New 52, all of these things have been half-assed carrying over tons of backage from prior continuities that just makes things more confusing. But DC doesn't have the balls to make a clean break and go back to square one, even though that is the approach that resonates with audiences. True, but the main problem is that the majority of DC's fanbase is very much into keeping the post-crisis on infinite earths continuity alive |
|
|
|
Post by crazyoldhermit on Mar 5, 2016 19:59:51 GMT -5
If DC really wanted to make it easy for new readers and make a bold move they'd do what they've never done before: Start completely from scratch. No prior continuity, no established heroes, start right from the beginning with Superman and Batman's first adventures. Earth-2, Crisis, Zero Hour, Infinite Crisis, the New 52, all of these things have been half-assed carrying over tons of backage from prior continuities that just makes things more confusing. But DC doesn't have the balls to make a clean break and go back to square one, even though that is the approach that resonates with audiences. True, but the main problem is that the majority of DC's fanbase is very much into keeping the post-crisis on infinite earths continuity alive I know, but DC's attempts to assuage them while also targeting new readers just ends up alienating everybody. Ultimately, DC's stable fanbase is there because they like reading good stories. They bitch and moan about continuity changes but in the end they accepted the good parts of the New 52 and ignored the bad parts, regardless of continuity. I think that if DC made the bold move (and really, at this point the only move they haven't tried) and went back to basics it would work out IF the stories were up to par. So I don't think the whole "just go back to post-Crisis" crowd is really that militant about it, |
|
|
|
Post by Gene on Mar 5, 2016 21:02:51 GMT -5
Bleeding Cool is reporting that Dan Jurgens is likely the new writer of Action Comics.
That gives us the following writers rumored for Rebirth books:
Peter J. Tomasi- Superman
Dan Jurgens- Action Comics
Tom King- Batman
Scott Snyder- Detective Comics
Marguerite Bennett- Wonder Woman
James Tynion IV- unnamed Bat book
Jim Lee is confirmed as one of the rotating artists on Suicide Squad.
Full creative teams are going to be announced on March 26 at WonderCon.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2016 23:15:32 GMT -5
Bleeding Cool is reporting that Dan Jurgens is likely the new writer of Action Comics. That gives us the following writers rumored for Rebirth books: Peter J. Tomasi- SupermanDan Jurgens- Action ComicsTom King- BatmanScott Snyder- Detective ComicsMarguerite Bennett- Wonder WomanJames Tynion IV- unnamed Bat book Jim Lee is confirmed as one of the rotating artists on Suicide Squad. Full creative teams are going to be announced on March 26 at WonderCon. Lee mentioned today in the In Store Comic COn streaming video thing they did that Rob Williams (the current writer of Martian Manhunter) is writing the Suicide Squad book, and Oscar Jimenez (who I believe got his start on Flash with Mark Waid in the 90s) has mentioned on Twitter that he is part of the art team on one of the Rebirth books but hasn't said which one. -M |
|
|
|
Post by berkley on Mar 6, 2016 1:08:57 GMT -5
Any mention of what they plan to do with the New Gods? That's the main thing I'm usually interested in with DC.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 6, 2016 1:28:23 GMT -5
Any mention of what they plan to do with the New Gods? That's the main thing I'm usually interested in with DC. The Darkseid War is what will be wrapping up the Justice League book pre-Rebirth. Nothing Fourth World related was listed in the slate of titles launching/relaunching with Rebirth, so I would say nothing for now, but more details are supposed to be released the last weekend of March at WonderCon so we might know more then. -M |
|
|
|
Post by tingramretro on Mar 6, 2016 4:31:51 GMT -5
True, but the main problem is that the majority of DC's fanbase is very much into keeping the post-crisis on infinite earths continuity alive I know, but DC's attempts to assuage them while also targeting new readers just ends up alienating everybody. Ultimately, DC's stable fanbase is there because they like reading good stories. They bitch and moan about continuity changes but in the end they accepted the good parts of the New 52 and ignored the bad parts, regardless of continuity. I think that if DC made the bold move (and really, at this point the only move they haven't tried) and went back to basics it would work out IF the stories were up to par. So I don't think the whole "just go back to post-Crisis" crowd is really that militant about it, I am. In 2011 I was buying about two thirds of DC's output every month, and had been since the early 1980s. I'd been a DC fan for over 35 years. That ended in september 2011. Since they rebooted, I've bought pretty much nothing they've published, except Batman '66, a couple of Vertigo books (now both ended) and the Convergence titles. I have no interest in emotionally engaging with new versions of characters I'd followed for most of my life, at the age of 46. |
|
|
|
Post by Gene on Mar 6, 2016 10:33:54 GMT -5
Bleeding Cool is reporting that Dan Jurgens is likely the new writer of Action Comics. That gives us the following writers rumored for Rebirth books: Peter J. Tomasi- SupermanDan Jurgens- Action ComicsTom King- BatmanScott Snyder- Detective ComicsMarguerite Bennett- Wonder WomanJames Tynion IV- unnamed Bat book Jim Lee is confirmed as one of the rotating artists on Suicide Squad. Full creative teams are going to be announced on March 26 at WonderCon. Lee mentioned today in the In Store Comic COn streaming video thing they did that Rob Williams (the current writer of Martian Manhunter) is writing the Suicide Squad book, and Oscar Jimenez (who I believe got his start on Flash with Mark Waid in the 90s) has mentioned on Twitter that he is part of the art team on one of the Rebirth books but hasn't said which one. -M I'm not going to be surprised if the announced teams are all these kinds of "safe" choices. Conservatism seems to be the name of the game with Rebirth. |
|
|
|
Post by crazyoldhermit on Mar 7, 2016 1:35:40 GMT -5
I know, but DC's attempts to assuage them while also targeting new readers just ends up alienating everybody. Ultimately, DC's stable fanbase is there because they like reading good stories. They bitch and moan about continuity changes but in the end they accepted the good parts of the New 52 and ignored the bad parts, regardless of continuity. I think that if DC made the bold move (and really, at this point the only move they haven't tried) and went back to basics it would work out IF the stories were up to par. So I don't think the whole "just go back to post-Crisis" crowd is really that militant about it, I am. In 2011 I was buying about two thirds of DC's output every month, and had been since the early 1980s. I'd been a DC fan for over 35 years. That ended in september 2011. Since they rebooted, I've bought pretty much nothing they've published, except Batman '66, a couple of Vertigo books (now both ended) and the Convergence titles. I have no interest in emotionally engaging with new versions of characters I'd followed for most of my life, at the age of 46. I respect your convictions but I think you're in a minority, a minority that is already four years gone and thus shouldn't be bothered with. |
|
|
|
Post by tingramretro on Mar 7, 2016 2:32:49 GMT -5
I am. In 2011 I was buying about two thirds of DC's output every month, and had been since the early 1980s. I'd been a DC fan for over 35 years. That ended in september 2011. Since they rebooted, I've bought pretty much nothing they've published, except Batman '66, a couple of Vertigo books (now both ended) and the Convergence titles. I have no interest in emotionally engaging with new versions of characters I'd followed for most of my life, at the age of 46. I respect your convictions but I think you're in a minority, a minority that is already four years gone and thus shouldn't be bothered with. Wow, thanks so much for that. Of course, why should they bother with people like me? I only gave them a sizeable chunk of my disposable income, even when it wasn't all that disposable, for over a quarter of a century. They clearly owe people like me nothing. |
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2016 3:06:09 GMT -5
I respect your convictions but I think you're in a minority, a minority that is already four years gone and thus shouldn't be bothered with. Wow, thanks so much for that. Of course, why should they bother with people like me? I only gave them a sizeable chunk of my disposable income, even when it wasn't all that disposable, for over a quarter of a century. They clearly owe people like me nothing. Corporations owe their shareholders future earnings not memories of money previously spent by past customers. You already got what you paid for, i.e. the products you purchased (and presumably read) in the past, you are not investing int he companies future, you bough their products in the past. In the present, not enough people are buying the products, and those past products are not earning their shareholders anything now. It is their duty and obligation, in fact their job to sell to future customers not past ones. Comics fans seem to be the only customer sin the world who believe their past purchases puts the companies they buy form in their debt for the future. If selling comics in the pre-Flashpoint vein earns their shareholders the most return on their investment, then that is what they should do. If starting over form scratch is what does that, then that is what they should do (it won't because it shrinks their product line to the point where it is not likely to be viable, but that's besides the point). What they absolutely shouldn't do is base their current business decisions based on their customers buying habits form 5, 10, 15, 20 years ago or longer. That is absolutely irrelevant to the current market (as much as those of us who were around back then don't like to think so). If you bought cars from BMW every 5 years for the past 25 years, it doesn't mean they should tailor the car to the specs of those model years. If those specs aren't selling now they need to change their product so it does sell. If you buy a pizza every week form Pizza Hut, it doesn't mean they should only offer that type of pizza or if not many customers are buying that type of pizza they shouldn't discontinue it for something that sells better. But somehow comic purchasers seem to think that their past purchases in-debt publishers to their tastes and preferences. It was tailoring their product to that hardcore comic fan market in the 80s and 90s that cost them 2 generations of new readers and shrunk their customer base to the point that the best selling comics today don't even sell at numbers that were cancellation numbers back then. Comics sales are in dire straight not because they are ignoring long term customers, but because publishers catered to them at the expense of the rest of the mass market for far too long driving everyone but the hardcore customer away. -M |
|
|
|
Post by tingramretro on Mar 7, 2016 4:18:11 GMT -5
But driving the hardcore customer away instead is hardy going to help matters, is it? In July 2011, I was still spending around £200 per month on DC Comics,and had been for years. The only reason I stopped is because of the reboot. If they hadn't done that, I'd likely still be spending £200 per month on DC Comics now, five years on. That means that decision has cost them £12,000 of my money, or will have by July of this year. And I'm not the only one who gave up on them because of the reboot, even amongst my own circle I can name another three, one of whom formerly bought literally everything the company published each month. How has this helped them?
|
|
|
|
Post by hondobrode on Mar 7, 2016 14:36:14 GMT -5
I thought they should have done a complete reboot with FP, but they held back the Bat titles, GL and LSH.
Go all the way back, reboot the entire u, and gradually show us that it all existed and more we haven't seen does too.
It's a multiverse already. Work with it ! That's the biggest failure they've had.
|
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 7, 2016 15:50:08 GMT -5
But driving the hardcore customer away instead is hardy going to help matters, is it? In Juy 2011, I was still spending around £200 per month on DC Comics,and had been for years. The oly reason I stopped is because of the reboot. If tbey hadn't done that, I'd likely still be spending £200 per month on DC Comics now, five years on. That means that decision has cost them £12,000 of my money, or will have by July of this year. And I'm not the only one who gave up on them because of the reboot, even amongst my own circle I can name another three, one of whom formerly bought literally everything the company published each month. How has this helped them? It hasn't, but then the money you guys were giving them wasn't enough to really keep the market viable because the bulk of the hardcore customers have already left in droves long before Flashpoint...sales have fallen to the point where just the hardcore customer is not really viable to support the line and the expenses of creating and printing monthly products. They have to do something to broaden the appeal to retain viability. It's either focus on the hardcore and watch attrition continue until the line is not viable or take a risk to try to broaden the line even if they alienate some current customers. It might hasten the decline or it might revitalize the line. Staying pat guarantees a demise because without some sort of influx of revenue via a new customer base, sale will dip below viability. Right now when Batman gains sales it means either another DC title is losing sales or a Marvel book (or indy book) is losing sales. The direct market is essentially a zero sum game at this point. There is only x amount of dollars form customers to go around and all Marvel and DC seem to be doing is shifting the percentages of that revenue base. That's bad business, and something needs to change. I am not sure the current regimes at either DC or Marvel know what to change though. It seems only Image is finding ways to make slow steady gains in sales and maintain them, and they are the ones reaching new markets and bringing new money into the existing market. Marvel and DC saw this and tried to ape the Indy vibe without actually producing product that would appeal to the wider market for the most part (though Ms. Marvel seems to be connecting to that wider market and finding growth, it seems ot be an exception not the rule with the big 2 books). -M |
|
|
|
Post by crazyoldhermit on Mar 7, 2016 16:23:07 GMT -5
I respect your convictions but I think you're in a minority, a minority that is already four years gone and thus shouldn't be bothered with. Wow, thanks so much for that. Of course, why should they bother with people like me? I only gave them a sizeable chunk of my disposable income, even when it wasn't all that disposable, for over a quarter of a century. They clearly owe people like me nothing. You're right, they owe you nothing. They don't owe anybody anything. You've said that you're already done with DC and it comes down to a "Post-Crisis or nothing" stance, which I believe to be a stance held by a minority demographic. So why go to the lengths indulge that stubborn and unyielding minority at the cost of progress? Post-Crisis continuity was a mess. It was inaccessible, confusing and carried piles of baggage from several prior reboots going all the way back to the early 60s. Going back to that would be a mistake, and doing so just to target the small group of people who only want Post-Crisis, and aren't interested in any other incarnations of the characters (no matter the quality of the stories), would be a massive mistake. I don't think it's in the interest of any business to try and appease an unyielding minority, especially when that minority wasn't saving their asses before the relaunch. Better to cut their losses and go after new readers. |
|
