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Post by berkley on Mar 15, 2016 20:58:41 GMT -5
Of those names I can picture the styles of only Jae Lee, who I think is excellent, and Cully Hamner, who I think is pretty good. But I've only seen their later work, not the 90s Image stuff. I'll have a look for some online samples of those 90s Alan Moore comics to see what they're like.
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Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on Mar 15, 2016 22:32:03 GMT -5
Of those names I can picture the styles of only Jae Lee, who I think is excellent, and Cully Hamner, who I think is pretty good. But I've only seen their later work, not the 90s Image stuff. I'll have a look for some online samples of those 90s Alan Moore comics to see what they're like. Sprouse  Skroce   Charest  Wiesenfield  Matt Broome  Jason Pearson  Dave Johnson  Tom Coker  And I could have given many more exemples of great artists who started to shine at 90ies Image... |
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Post by berkley on Mar 15, 2016 23:53:31 GMT -5
Thanks, Arthur. Those samples all look good - but I think they're mostly more recent work, rather than from the 90s, or are they?
A lot of good artists produced some really bad-looking art in the 90s, IMO, presumably because of the style that was in demand at the time. Mike Deodato comes to mind.
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,220 
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Post by Confessor on Mar 16, 2016 10:44:06 GMT -5
Voodoo is way too generic and ultimatly some of the worst Alan Moore ever. I think it's worse than that, even. It's so bad, that it's hard to reconcile it as being by the same guy who wrote Watchmen, From Hell, V for Vendetta, League of Extraordinary Gentlemen etc. |
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Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on Mar 16, 2016 11:04:08 GMT -5
Thanks, Arthur. Those samples all look good - but I think they're mostly more recent work, rather than from the 90s, or are they? A lot of good artists produced some really bad-looking art in the 90s, IMO, presumably because of the style that was in demand at the time. Mike Deodato comes to mind. The 5 first pages are from the 90ies, mostly at Image itself but the Mat Broome one that was a NML Batman page. The 3 remaining ones indeed are more recent, but those three artist already had their distinctive style back in the 90ies at Image  Dave Johnson  Tomm Coker  Jason Pearson  |
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Mar 16, 2016 18:54:52 GMT -5
The artwork might be the killer for me on these 90s Wildstorm/Image/etc comics. I had a very hard time reading Ellis's Stormwatch when I tried to read those last year and in fact wasn't able to get through to the end, even though I didn't mind the writing and liked some of the ideas Ellis brought into play. That 90s superhero art just rubs me the wrong way. Yeah, it's gonna be rough going then. Still might be worth it for the Mister Majestic One-Shot. I'm completely opposite Arthur's opinion here; I thought it was heartfelt, very sweet, very sad. Now I'm re-reading Captain Britain. At least the Jaspers/Fury cycle (He wrote more C.B. than that, right?) which was what the library had. S'weird - I think of this as a fairly minor Alan Moore work, but easily one of the top ten Marvel superhero comics runs ever. Also read a Kool-Aid Man strip he did with Peter Bagge! I'd never read it before - I've read all of Hate! but only in trades, so apparently I missed a lot of great work. (Apparently Moore had been meaning to do a Kool-Aid Man comic for over a decade, and always wanted Bagge as the artist. Bagge talks about how when it was finally time, Alan Moore didn't have the internet so he found a page of Kool-Aid-Man facts on the 1998 internet, printed it out and faxed 50 pages (overseas!) to Alan for research purposes.) Interesting - I definitely think of Alan Moore as a "mainstream" writer, but from reading his interviews he sees his American contemporaries as Bagge, Dan Clowes, Chester Brown and definitely not Denny 'O Neil or John Byrne. I keep hoping for a collection of Alan Moore's comic short stories, (and I'm shocked this hasn't happened yet!) |
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Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on Mar 16, 2016 19:41:20 GMT -5
Still might be worth it for the Mister Majestic One-Shot. I'm completely opposite Arthur's opinion here; I thought it was heartfelt, very sweet, very sad. Now I'm re-reading Captain Britain. At least the Jaspers/Fury cycle (He wrote more C.B. than that, right?) which was what the library had. Oh but we're not, I also find it very sad, it's just that the heartfelt aspect of it didn't sound true to me. I see it wants to get there, but maybe because of the stiff artwork or pacing, it doesn't really work as well as it could/should. But it's still probably better than the whole oeuvre of guys like Fabian Nicieza or Scott Lobdell, however entertaining those might be. Captain Britain is one of those other Moore comics I struggle a little to get through. A bunch of good ideas, but the core of the story is pretty generic superhero stuff now. Which short stories do you want to see collected? You mean all the small bits he published pretty much everywhere? Most of those publishers probably are long gone, the pages scattered and the rights uncertain, so I guess it would be colossal work to achive that if it's even possible. |
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Mar 16, 2016 19:45:41 GMT -5
Pictopia, Kool-Aid-Man, his short story (s?) in Puma Blues, his Spirit work. There's gotta be a collection's worth of stuff out there!
My favorite part of Captain Britain was the introduction written in 2001. Alan says "I haven't read any of these in a while, barely remember it, I was a much younger writer then... but some of this is really good, and all of this is fun!" He's the only writer outside of Stan Lee (in any medium*) I've ever read with enough balls to forego false modesty and admit his younger work was awesome!
* Thomas Pynchon, looking at you especially.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 17, 2016 1:02:29 GMT -5
Arthur Gordon Scratch - Thanks for posting those images!
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Post by tingramretro on Mar 17, 2016 2:35:02 GMT -5
Still might be worth it for the Mister Majestic One-Shot. I'm completely opposite Arthur's opinion here; I thought it was heartfelt, very sweet, very sad. Now I'm re-reading Captain Britain. At least the Jaspers/Fury cycle (He wrote more C.B. than that, right?) which was what the library had. Oh but we're not, I also find it very sad, it's just that the heartfelt aspect of it didn't sound true to me. I see it wants to get there, but maybe because of the stiff artwork or pacing, it doesn't really work as well as it could/should. But it's still probably better than the whole oeuvre of guys like Fabian Nicieza or Scott Lobdell, however entertaining those might be. Captain Britain is one of those other Moore comics I struggle a little to get through. A bunch of good ideas, but the core of the story is pretty generic superhero stuff now. The point is, it wasn't pretty generic superhero stuff then. If Moore hadn't got there first on stuff like Captain Britain, others would not have followed in the same vein. It was groundbreaking stuff, and remains my favourite superhero story ever. |
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Post by tingramretro on Mar 17, 2016 2:42:29 GMT -5
The artwork might be the killer for me on these 90s Wildstorm/Image/etc comics. I had a very hard time reading Ellis's Stormwatch when I tried to read those last year and in fact wasn't able to get through to the end, even though I didn't mind the writing and liked some of the ideas Ellis brought into play. That 90s superhero art just rubs me the wrong way. Yeah, it's gonna be rough going then. Still might be worth it for the Mister Majestic One-Shot. I'm completely opposite Arthur's opinion here; I thought it was heartfelt, very sweet, very sad. Now I'm re-reading Captain Britain. At least the Jaspers/Fury cycle (He wrote more C.B. than that, right?) which was what the library had. S'weird - I think of this as a fairly minor Alan Moore work, but easily one of the top ten Marvel superhero comics runs ever. Also read a Kool-Aid Man strip he did with Peter Bagge! I'd never read it before - I've read all of Hate! but only in trades, so apparently I missed a lot of great work. (Apparently Moore had been meaning to do a Kool-Aid Man comic for over a decade, and always wanted Bagge as the artist. Bagge talks about how when it was finally time, Alan Moore didn't have the internet so he found a page of Kool-Aid-Man facts on the 1998 internet, printed it out and faxed 50 pages (overseas!) to Alan for research purposes.) Interesting - I definitely think of Alan Moore as a "mainstream" writer, but from reading his interviews he sees his American contemporaries as Bagge, Dan Clowes, Chester Brown and definitely not Denny 'O Neil or John Byrne. I keep hoping for a collection of Alan Moore's comic short stories, (and I'm shocked this hasn't happened yet!) The only Captain Britain stuff Moore wrote was the Jaspers/Fury arc, beginning in Marvel Super-Heroes #386 (when he took over from writer Dave Thorpe on the final page) and ending in Mighty World of Marvel (vol II) #16. Incidentally, John Byrne wouldn't technically have been one of his "American contemporaries", since Byrne was born British (his family left te UK when he was eight) and raised mostly in Canada. He may well have American citizenshop now, though... |
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Post by Dizzy D on Mar 17, 2016 4:00:45 GMT -5
The artwork might be the killer for me on these 90s Wildstorm/Image/etc comics. I had a very hard time reading Ellis's Stormwatch when I tried to read those last year and in fact wasn't able to get through to the end, even though I didn't mind the writing and liked some of the ideas Ellis brought into play. That 90s superhero art just rubs me the wrong way. Yeah, it's gonna be rough going then. Still might be worth it for the Mister Majestic One-Shot. I'm completely opposite Arthur's opinion here; I thought it was heartfelt, very sweet, very sad. Now I'm re-reading Captain Britain. At least the Jaspers/Fury cycle (He wrote more C.B. than that, right?) which was what the library had. S'weird - I think of this as a fairly minor Alan Moore work, but easily one of the top ten Marvel superhero comics runs ever. Also read a Kool-Aid Man strip he did with Peter Bagge! I'd never read it before - I've read all of Hate! but only in trades, so apparently I missed a lot of great work. (Apparently Moore had been meaning to do a Kool-Aid Man comic for over a decade, and always wanted Bagge as the artist. Bagge talks about how when it was finally time, Alan Moore didn't have the internet so he found a page of Kool-Aid-Man facts on the 1998 internet, printed it out and faxed 50 pages (overseas!) to Alan for research purposes.) Interesting - I definitely think of Alan Moore as a "mainstream" writer, but from reading his interviews he sees his American contemporaries as Bagge, Dan Clowes, Chester Brown and definitely not Denny 'O Neil or John Byrne. I keep hoping for a collection of Alan Moore's comic short stories, (and I'm shocked this hasn't happened yet!) The Jaspers/Fury story is the only Captain Britain stuff Moore has done. That volume of the character continues while written by Jamie Delano (which IMHO is still worth it, but I like Delano a lot). and Alan Davis, developing Dai Thomas in one of my favourite supporting characters, introducing the Warpies and so on. Rereading Captain Britain, I forgot how much I love Moore's Saturnyne and how different Claremont's version is later. (Of course when Claremont writes her she is in power again, while Moore's Saturnyne has lost everything. But that "Grow up"-bit is so damn good.) |
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Post by tingramretro on Mar 17, 2016 4:06:16 GMT -5
Delano's run on Captain Britain isn't bad, in fact it's pretty good, but it doesn't come close to Moore's run, for me, or even the truncated Dave Thorpe run (yes, I am the only person on the planet who really liked the Dave Thorpe run).
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Post by Dizzy D on Mar 17, 2016 6:50:38 GMT -5
Delano's run on Captain Britain isn't bad, in fact it's pretty good, but it doesn't come close to Moore's run, for me, or even the truncated Dave Thorpe run (yes, I am the only person on the planet who really liked the Dave Thorpe run). If I had a decent way to read the Dave Thorpe run, I'd have an opinion. (Maybe I'll see if I can pick something up next time I'm in the UK). |
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Post by Arthur Gordon Scratch on Mar 17, 2016 7:48:00 GMT -5
Captain Britain is one of those other Moore comics I struggle a little to get through. A bunch of good ideas, but the core of the story is pretty generic superhero stuff now. The point is, it wasn't pretty generic superhero stuff then. If Moore hadn't got there first on stuff like Captain Britain, others woukd not have followed in the same vein. It was groundbreaking stuff, and remains my favourite superhero story ever. So we're in agreement I was just talking about my current enjoyement of it, as I would be foolish not to recognise its past merits. I guess you've been reading superhero comics and comics in general for far longer then me, so you lived the change that Moore brought and felt it, "live". I personnaly started with this kind of works and it was only later that I discovered this advanced the genre by giant steps, so I don't have to feel as passionate about it as you I guess, that's all. |
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