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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2016 15:09:27 GMT -5
Icctrombone: I was the opposite - I dropped All-Star Squadron, Infinity Inc, and several other titles and kept Justice League, Secret Origins, and Swamp Thing.
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Post by SJNeal on Apr 8, 2016 0:21:02 GMT -5
My unsolicited take on the Hawkman debate:
I have to (mostly) agree with tingrametro. The '89 Hawkworld mini was intended as a fleshed out retelling of Katar and Shayera's origin; the same Silver Age Katar & Shayera that had recently been under Tony Isabella's pen from '85-'87. Occurring in the past, it worked just fine as said origin, and didn't really contradict anything that had come before.
Fast forward to 1990 and editorial (Mike Gold, I believe?) decided that John Ostrander's ongoing Hawkworld series would feature Katar & Shayera arriving on Earth for the first time. That's when all of the continuity holes started popping up, and rendered Isabella's stories problematic.
So while the Crisis prompted the original Hawkworld mini - as it did all the other characters revamped origins - it's not to blame for the long term mess that Hawkman's continuity eventually became. That blame lies with editorial shoehorning Truman's story into modern times.
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Post by tingramretro on Apr 8, 2016 1:19:57 GMT -5
My unsolicited take on the Hawkman debate: I have to (mostly) agree with tingrametro. The '89 Hawkworld mini was intended as a fleshed out retelling of Katar and Shayera's origin; the same Silver Age Katar & Shayera that had recently been under Tony Isabella's pen from '85-'87. Occurring in the past, it worked just fine as said origin, and didn't really contradict anything that had come before. Fast forward to 1990 and editorial (Mike Gold, I believe?) decided that John Ostrander's ongoing Hawkworld series would feature Katar & Shayera arriving on Earth for the first time. That's when all of the continuity holes started popping up, and rendered Isabella's stories problematic. So while the Crisis prompted the original Hawkworld mini - as it did all the other characters revamped origins - it's not to blame for the long term mess that Hawkman's continuity eventually became. That blame lies with editorial shoehorning Truman's story into modern times. Yes, that is how I've always understood it-an editorial decision made in 1990, nothing to do with any long term plan. |
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Post by Icctrombone on Apr 8, 2016 4:56:51 GMT -5
Icctrombone: I was the opposite - I dropped All-Star Squadron, Infinity Inc, and several other titles and kept Justice League, Secret Origins, and Swamp Thing. I dropped JL after the beginning because I didn't like the Bwah ha stuff and I dropped Swamp Thing after Moore left. I admit , I hung onto All Star S and Infinity Inc to see how they would resolve it. Losing the big three didn't HAVE to cripple those series. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2016 8:25:44 GMT -5
Trying to remember what I read post-Crisis....
Firestorm
Wonder Woman--dropped around issue 20 (picked it back up when Mike Deodato become the artist)
New Teen Titans--dropped when the artist was changed to Eduardo Baretto-picked up an issue here and there
Legion of Super Heroes--stuck with it until the end of the baxter series
Justice League--dropped it after a couple of issues, didn't care for the humorous tone
Action
Superman
Infinity Inc-dropped, but can't remember what issue
It's funny...after Crisis, I read several titles but dropped them after a giving them a try...much like I did with the new 52 titles.
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Post by tingramretro on Apr 8, 2016 9:18:01 GMT -5
Icctrombone: I was the opposite - I dropped All-Star Squadron, Infinity Inc, and several other titles and kept Justice League, Secret Origins, and Swamp Thing. I dropped JL after the beginning because I didn't like the Bwah ha stuff and I dropped Swamp Thing after Moore left. I admit , I hung onto All Star S and Infinity Inc to see how they would resolve it. Losing the big three didn't HAVE to cripple those series. And I don't think it did cripple them. Superman and Batman, in particular, were not particularly relevant to either series, and the effect of losing Wonder Woman on Infinity Inc.'s Fury was quickly dealt with. I don't think being relocated to the same Earth as everyone elses really affected anything in those books to any significant degree. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2016 14:14:07 GMT -5
I guess I would have been OK if they could have let 2 Earths survive. Most DC stories took place on either Earth 1 or E2. Still think the Marvel Family work best on their own Earth.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Apr 8, 2016 19:51:14 GMT -5
My unsolicited take on the Hawkman debate: I have to (mostly) agree with tingrametro. The '89 Hawkworld mini was intended as a fleshed out retelling of Katar and Shayera's origin; the same Silver Age Katar & Shayera that had recently been under Tony Isabella's pen from '85-'87. Occurring in the past, it worked just fine as said origin, and didn't really contradict anything that had come before. Fast forward to 1990 and editorial (Mike Gold, I believe?) decided that John Ostrander's ongoing Hawkworld series would feature Katar & Shayera arriving on Earth for the first time. That's when all of the continuity holes started popping up, and rendered Isabella's stories problematic. So while the Crisis prompted the original Hawkworld mini - as it did all the other characters revamped origins - it's not to blame for the long term mess that Hawkman's continuity eventually became. That blame lies with editorial shoehorning Truman's story into modern times. And interestingly (given that it ended up supplanting them in continuity) Hawkworld was intended as a tribute to the original Fox/Kubert Hawkman stories. (Which are the best DC superhero comics.) |
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Post by Icctrombone on Apr 8, 2016 20:17:54 GMT -5
I dropped JL after the beginning because I didn't like the Bwah ha stuff and I dropped Swamp Thing after Moore left. I admit , I hung onto All Star S and Infinity Inc to see how they would resolve it. Losing the big three didn't HAVE to cripple those series. And i don't think it did cripple them. Superman and Batman, in particular, were not particularly relevant to either series, and the effect of losing Wonder Woman on Infinity Inc.'s Fury was quickly dealt with. I don't think being relocated to the same Earth as everyone elses really affected anything in those books to any significant degree. There was some bird character that was connected to the original Hawkman and other legacy characters that had to be redefined because of the Crisis. |
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Post by SJNeal on Apr 8, 2016 21:09:57 GMT -5
^ ^ ^
Golden Eagle...?
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Post by tingramretro on Apr 9, 2016 1:15:27 GMT -5
And i don't think it did cripple them. Superman and Batman, in particular, were not particularly relevant to either series, and the effect of losing Wonder Woman on Infinity Inc.'s Fury was quickly dealt with. I don't think being relocated to the same Earth as everyone elses really affected anything in those books to any significant degree. There was some bird character that was connected to the original Hawkman and other legacy characters that had to be redefined because of the Crisis. I can't think of any bird character connected to the original Hawkman, except Northwind, who remained totally unaffected by te Crisis. Golden Eagle, a very minor character originally with loose connections to the Silver Age Hawkman, was eventually given a new origin that retconned him as the son of a Thanagarian spy in 2005, but I don't think a story published twenty years later can realistically be said to be Crisis related. |
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Post by berkley on Apr 9, 2016 2:19:38 GMT -5
I was never interested enough in the DCU to read it so I don't know enough to have an opinion one way or the other. However, I've been thinking I should look at it sometime just for the Perez artwork. is there a good, cheap collected edition or are the individual issues still the way to go? Amazon has it for $18.31. Don't know what the originals are going for. What kind of paper was the original series printed on? I might look for those if the collection messed around with the colouring, as they often do. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2016 2:22:35 GMT -5
Amazon has it for $18.31. Don't know what the originals are going for. What kind of paper was the original series printed on? I might look for those if the collection messed around with the colouring, as they often do. It was a standard format comic, so newsprint, but be aware if you go for the originals, issue #7 and 8 can be a little pricey in high grade because of character deaths in those issues. -M |
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Post by Icctrombone on Apr 9, 2016 2:31:31 GMT -5
What kind of paper was the original series printed on? I might look for those if the collection messed around with the colouring, as they often do. It was a standard format comic, so newsprint, but be aware if you go for the originals, issue #7 and 8 can be a little pricey in high grade because of character deaths in those issues. -M It's crazy for those 2 issues to be pricey because they're both back. |
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Post by realjla on Apr 9, 2016 3:47:14 GMT -5
It's a decent story with some gorgeous art by Perez, but the aftermath was godawful, especially for characters like Superman and the damage it did for ancillary properties like the Legion and the Hawks. It didn't do anything to the Hawks... Yeah, that came later(ZERO HOUR). I didn't like the loss of Earth-2 post-Crisis, or the idea that the JSA had to be 'banished', but I coped with the rest of DC's changes. I didn't collect a lot of different titles, anyway, and just kind of drifted away around 1988, when I cut down to only reading Batman titles. Most of the DC 'crap' I heard about came later. |
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