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Post by Batflunkie on Apr 13, 2016 12:33:33 GMT -5
Since I got back into comics in 2009, something that I've been seriously concerned about is whether or not the industry, regardless of how hot it is right now, is on the verge of a second crash. There's multiple variant covers, increased prices, style over substance, etc., a lot of things happened in the 90's that seemed to have been entirely forgotten by colossal four-color conglomerates that were 20 years ago almost on the verge of bankruptcy or were already
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2016 15:02:18 GMT -5
Maybe.....the big two seem to make their money from movies, TV, merchandise and licensing rather than comics. I am not one to buy variant covers or other gimmicks (although I did in the 90s). I believe DC's Rebirth could be them trying to lure back readers whose interest and purchases declined with the new 52 offerings. I know I will be checking out many Rebirth titles and see if they are to my liking.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2016 15:23:17 GMT -5
Yes, because of the variant covers that made a lot of customers that I know of want all of them and having said that it's forcing the buyer to re-prioritize his/her budget and therefore it's will hurt the comic industry of titles being canceled and all. Because I'm nearing 60 and I'm thinking of stopping buying comic books altogether and I'm thinking of terminating my account here in a year or two and saying goodbye to all of you for good.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2016 15:38:19 GMT -5
Comic sales are no longer about what the end customer orders, it's about what the retailers order. Diamond charts etc. reflect orders, not sales to end customers. The current bubble will last only as long as retailers have the confidence to order enough to meet minimum sales thresholds for variants or additional discounts on the orders that they currently do. If actual end customer sales were taken into account, sales numbers would be much, much lower already. Secret Wars and Convergence (not variant covers) and the poor initial response to the offerings which came afterwards from DC and Marvel has shaken that retailer confidence. How well Rebirth does doesn't rest in the hands of end customers, but in the hands of retailers who ace the orders and there has been a lot of skepticism and reluctance to order big on these that I have seen from retailers who choose to talk about it.
The Big 2 direct market sales pol is a zero sum gain right now in terms of end customers. If something increases in sales, something elsewhere is decreasing. People trying new Rebirth titles are likely dropping other titles they tried recently and were less impressed with rather than just adding new titles to what they are already buying.
Again revenue wise, the market is just reaching the levels it was at 20 years ago-but the products cost 4-5 times what they did 20 twenty years ago to generate the same revenue-that means they are selling far fewer units to generate that same revenue-4-5 times fewer or more when you consider that the revenues also includes toys, trades, and other things that were not a significant part of the marketplace 20 years ago that all now contribute to the revenue pool that has yet to exceed what it was 20 years ago.
The prelude to a crash is a peak, and there is no peak. There isn't enough height in the market to make a fall qualify as a crash. At best there might be a stumble, where orders come down to the level of actual end sales -but on the retailer level that means they are spending less and making the same so not necessarily a bad thing for them. For publishers though it means their sales will drop the the level of the end customer purchases that currently exist, not the inflated middle man levels that sales charts reflect currently. That is what is called a market correction, not a crash. And it might be long overdue. If you look at other publishers-Image in particular, their numbers are climbing and it more accurately reflects end customer sales not inflated middle man purchases. So there is growth potential, but only if the product is one that grows audience not switches it form one product within the market to another creating a stagnant customer base.
So I don't see a crash so much as a needed market correction and transformation of the market, one that reflects the 21st century, not the 20th century way of producing content and providing entertainment value.
-M
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Apr 13, 2016 15:39:31 GMT -5
Yes, for both new comics and back issues.
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Post by Bronze Age Brian on Apr 13, 2016 15:50:13 GMT -5
I'd say no. All of my local LCS' are thriving. And it's not due to the movies or just the big two companies either.
Independent comics and trades are hot right now.
The only thing that I think could cause a "crash", at least for an LCS, is the advent of digital.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Apr 13, 2016 16:49:54 GMT -5
I'd say no. All of my local LCS' are thriving. And it's not due to the movies or just the big two companies either. Independent comics and trades are hot right now. The only thing that I think could cause a "crash", at least for an LCS, is the advent of digital. That is true. Whenever something has been successful in the short term, it has always proven to be more successful in the long term! Look how the economy has always got better and better, and will continue to do so till the end of time.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Apr 13, 2016 16:59:24 GMT -5
Seriously, though, the ongoing growth of comic sales is due for a course correction. That happens all the time to every industry periodically.
It probably won't be as scorched earth as the crash after the speculator boom, due to (like Brian said) increased diversity - And also lower sales due to higher price points.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Apr 13, 2016 17:01:33 GMT -5
And obviously artificially inflating sales by getting retailers to buy product they don't need in order to get variant covers is not going to be a sustainable practice, long term.
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Post by Ish Kabbible on Apr 13, 2016 17:17:26 GMT -5
The industry could disappear in a puff of smoke tomorrow and 99% of the public wouldn't notice or care I'm only speaking for the U.S. but folks watch superhero movies and TV and will never have the slightest inclination to even think about a comic book . They generally don't even read newspapers anymore
So a crash on the horizon? Of course-there are always peaks and valleys ever since the beginning.
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Post by Cei-U! on Apr 13, 2016 17:45:29 GMT -5
Hell, when I mention to non-fans what I do, 9 times out of ten the reaction is "They still make comic books?"
Cei-U! I summon the punchline!
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Apr 13, 2016 18:01:38 GMT -5
You could say you work in graphic novellas.
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Post by dupersuper on Apr 13, 2016 19:40:29 GMT -5
As long as the movies and TV shows keep bringing in the billions and trades sell out at bookstores and the merchandise is raking in the dough, the comics shall hold...
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Post by String on Apr 13, 2016 19:55:08 GMT -5
Maybe.
I think the advent of digital services and the overall success and popularity of the movies and related media/merchandise will help the overall industry.
But I get a bad feeling on the resurgence of the variant covers and it's effects on how retailers make their orders. For example, I'm still pissed over Valiant's retailer incentive for their Legends of the Geomancer mini that was offered concurrently with the release of the Book of Death mini. They explicitly stated that LoG wasn't going to be offered digitally and for retailers to acquire a certain number of copies of each issue of LoG, they had to order a certain amount of BoD to qualify. It's ridiculous, it's forcing me into a collector hunt that I want no part of just to read this story when I am more than willing to pay for any digital copies of the mini. It's ostracizing a certain portion of your readership for sake of the bottom line.
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Post by hondobrode on Apr 13, 2016 23:35:47 GMT -5
Digital numbers aren't calculated in the numbers.
There may be a slight market correction, but I don't see a crash coming.
The speculators aren't nearly the force they used to be IMO.
I've heard my whole life comics were going away, along with newspapers...
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