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Post by Batflunkie on May 27, 2016 20:23:40 GMT -5
You know something? I had a thought. What if they're going to turn Cap into a Peacemaker/Comedian character? You know, duality of man stuff, "saying one thing and doing another"?
Oh, who am I kidding? That's too smart a move even for them
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Post by Gene on May 27, 2016 22:06:24 GMT -5
I'm more upset over Marvel getting rid of Jack Flag's awesome red, white, and blue tri-colored hair.
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Roquefort Raider
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Post by Roquefort Raider on May 28, 2016 6:28:58 GMT -5
I'm more upset over Marvel getting rid of Jack Flag's awesome red, white, and blue tri-colored hair. Don't worry... The Red Skull will graft it onto his own head. |
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Post by Icctrombone on May 28, 2016 7:31:38 GMT -5
Granted, I was only a few months old when Disco Demolition Night occurred, but I think your way off. I'm sure lots of posters remember Disco Demolition Night, but your efforts to ascribe deep political meaning to it, make it nearly unrecognizable. Disco Demolition Night was a promotion by a rock music DJ (to promote himself and his station) and a baseball team owner (to sell tickets for a middling Chicago White Sox team). People who brought a disco record got really cheap tickets to a double-header, and of course, they'd spend money for over-priced ballpark food. The White Sox owner, Bill Veeck, wasn't a minion of a racist, bigoted faction. He was the team owner that brought the second black player (Larry Doby) to the majors when he was the owner of the Cleveland Indians. He simply embraced promotions. What are you talking about?! Where have I said that Bill Veeck was racist or even mentioned him? I just said that there was a disco sucks movement that had thousands of people destroy records in various cities of the USA and that this was much less innocent as a global stream than what single events might have led to believe. US manstream medias have always been instrumental in having the folk htink hte way they do, I don't think there's anything controversial about stating that. It's the same in many western countries, still sadly is. About the specific Disco Demolition occurence though, many scholars have a different opinion. And trust me, as someone who's been playing records in nightclubs for the better part of his last twenty years, I've met Moroder, Nile Rodgers, Cerrone, Arthur Russell collaborators, Tom Moulton, and others, they all sang the same gospel, and they were first line when Disco sucks hit them. The fact remains that consecutively to that, radios stopped playing disco and any sort of electronic music became unfashionable in the US for a good decade (there will of course be some exceptions, as is always the case, but electronic music disappeared almost instantly, replaced by macho rock and pop). I don't understand why you're focussing on the possible racism of some of the weak spirits who went to follow a popular cultural leader telling them to burn culture, when I was merely pionting out that nazi Germany didn't have that monopoly in the 20th century  I find it interesting that Disco was singled out for that type of hate. Rap music is far more vile in it's promotion of violence and poor treatment of women than disco ever was. I guess every generation thinks that the prior music was the "Devils music." |
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Post by dupersuper on May 28, 2016 20:46:33 GMT -5
Everything old is new again.... Cap saluting Hitler...as drawn by Jack Kirby himself...  and this page from Cap #234 published in 1979...  yes this new Marvel has no respect for the past and will do anything in a story to get a rise out of it's audience... Nick Spencer gets death threats from comics fans and proud Americans for making Cap a Nazi sympathizer Hydra agent, Joe Simon got death threats for having Cap punch Hitler on the cover of Captain America Comics #1 in 1941 from comics fans and proud Americans. Yes, we've never seen anything like this ever before in a Captain America comic book... Cue Santayana's quote or something like that here... -M Both of these examples were different than the current situation, however, because both of them showed beforehand that Cap was under the influence of mind control. In the first example (which I have already covered in my review thread), Steve has been captured by the Red Skull and is subjected to an entire issue of being broken through a combination of torture and drugging, and he attempts to resist until the last moment when his will is finally broken. The second example is in the middle of an ongoing storyline in which Doctor Faustus has already brainwashed Sharon Carter and eventually captures Steve, at which point he administers mind control drugs and his brainwashing techniques (the drugs are mentioned at the end of issue #233, and the brainwashing takes place between issues). This is being handled in the exact opposite way. Nick Spencer has gone for the shock at the outset with no inkling it is coming, and then he will most likely peel back the layers to reveal what happened. It's a different style of storytelling more prevalent in modern works, and while it is not my cup of tea, it does appeal to some. I've calmed down after my original hot take and will give this a chance, but I certainly understand why some people would not be thrilled with it. I'm not thrilled to say the least, and have no plans to check it out, but that certainly doesn't excuse the death threats. The internet makes me sad. If it wasn't for the comic forums and porn...and TV and Youtube and podcasts and... |
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Post by Action Ace on May 28, 2016 21:39:37 GMT -5
Hitler's not even happy Captain America is a Hydra Agent.
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Post by Batflunkie on May 29, 2016 13:48:13 GMT -5
Hitler's not even happy Captain America is a Hydra Agent. Hydra aren't really "Nazis" though, they're more of a politically correct stand-in. They feel more like a riff on the Soviet Union tbh |
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Post by String on May 29, 2016 16:14:26 GMT -5
For me, it just ruined the start of this new title. I read it, the story was slightly decent (though wow, does Sharon look old here) but when I got to the last page, it was like letting all the air out of the sails. Marvel is going this route with him? Now??
No hint, no clue, no longer care.
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Roquefort Raider
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Post by Roquefort Raider on May 29, 2016 17:01:44 GMT -5
For me, it just ruined the start of this new title. I read it, the story was slightly decent (though wow, does Sharon look old here) but when I got to the last page, it was like letting all the air out of the sails. Marvel is going this route with him? Now?? No hint, no clue, no longer care. It'll get undone. The timeline was changed, the timeline will be restored. Or not! HAIL HYDRA! |
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Post by Icctrombone on May 29, 2016 18:19:15 GMT -5
I read somewhere that the editors for Marvel claimed it wasn't imaginary, mind control ,clone, imposter etc.
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Post by The Captain on May 29, 2016 18:30:25 GMT -5
I read somewhere that the editors for Marvel claimed it wasn't imaginary, mind control ,clone, imposter etc. He says that if readers go back and look at older comics, this twist will actually hold up and people can "connect the dots and follow the trail of breadcrumbs." |
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2016 19:49:55 GMT -5
I read somewhere that the editors for Marvel claimed it wasn't imaginary, mind control ,clone, imposter etc. I read somewhere that the editors for Marvel claimed it wasn't imaginary, mind control ,clone, imposter etc. He says that if readers go back and look at older comics, this twist will actually hold up and people can "connect the dots and follow the trail of breadcrumbs." They also said all those sorts of things about Ben Reilly being the real Spider-Man and not Peter Parker, who was the clone, until they changed their mind and guess what, it all went back to the way it was...which is pretty much what they say every time there is some kind of controversial move getting a buzz-it's not what you think it is (and it isn't until it is) and it all makes sense if you go back and read all the back issues (and it does, until it doesn't). Pretty much you have editorial spin and mob mentality bandwagon from fanboys butting heads on every little thing in comics and in the end, nothing ever really changes but the only constant is a steady attrition of sales despite the bumps caused by the "controversial earth shattering changes" that get everybody up in arms every few months. It's all tempests in teapots, and it's a cycle of wash, rinse, repeat that the industry has slipped into and fans support with their continued purchases out of habit. The only way they will go away is if people stop buying them and stop talking about them keeping the publishers in the newscycle. If these things didn't sell and didn't get people talking, there'd be no reason to do them, but fans give publishers every reason to keep doing things like this. -M |
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Post by Action Ace on May 29, 2016 23:08:22 GMT -5
Hitler's not even happy Captain America is a Hydra Agent. Hydra aren't really "Nazis" though, they're more of a politically correct stand-in. They feel more like a riff on the Soviet Union tbh I was referring to one of those Hitler "Downfall" videos that get posted every so often. |
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Post by Trevor on May 30, 2016 4:12:47 GMT -5
I read the issue and surprisingly loved the story, usually not a big Marvel or Cap fan. The gimmick is no different than what's been done before, surprised by the backlash. Wait, I mean I'm not suprised. In this day and age the Internet rages at everything.
I hated the art though. Apparently I'm alone there, but I just don't like his style at all. And I very rarely criticize art, as it rarely matters to me, I'm all about the writing.
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Post by Icctrombone on May 30, 2016 6:08:04 GMT -5
I read the issue and surprisingly loved the story, usually not a big Marvel or Cap fan. The gimmick is no different than what's been done before, surprised by the backlash. Wait, I mean I'm not suprised. In this day and age the Internet rages at everything.
I hated the art though. Apparently I'm alone there, but I just don't like his style at all. And I very rarely criticize art, as it rarely matters to me, I'm all about the writing. Oh yeah. They do. |
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