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Post by dupersuper on Jul 28, 2016 14:28:20 GMT -5
I still haven't forgiven him for killing Barrys mom, but he's been more hit than miss for me, and Rebirth definitely fell into the "hit" column.
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Post by earl on Jul 28, 2016 15:11:17 GMT -5
I think Geoff Johns is about the only big writer in US superhero comics that has not really developed at least one creator owned title of his own in this era. There is a European album he did I assume was his creation, but the rest is just licensed characters.
That seems kinda odd to me in a way.
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Post by Randle-El on Jul 28, 2016 15:32:14 GMT -5
I think Geoff Johns is about the only big writer in US superhero comics that has not really developed at least one creator owned title of his own in this era. There is a European album he did I assume was his creation, but the rest is just licensed characters. That seems kinda odd to me in a way. Why would he need to? Most creators that do creator-owned stuff are freelancers without a steady gig. At best they have limited duration exclusivity contracts. A lot of creators talk about how creator-owned stuff lets them produce original material that they have full control over, etc. etc., but I'm sure a big part of it is that creator-owned has the potential to make them a lot more money than their freelance work -- especially in this day and age where a lot of creator-owned material is being picked up for TV and film adaptation. I read somewhere that Scott Snyder makes way more money off of Wytches than he does off of Batman, which sells a lot more copies. Someone like Geoff Johns doesn't have much incentive to do a creator-owned title. He's been a company man for years and I'm sure has been well compensated over and beyond what the average freelance creator makes. Creator-owned material allows creators to push boundaries, do weird concepts, and in general just lets them do their thing in an unfettered manner, but let's not kid ourselves -- a lot of creators are probably hoping their their next independent title is their winning lottery ticket. But besides all that, from the sound of it his current duties appear to be keeping him plenty busy. Also, I could see it not being good for his career if it were known by executives above him that he was doing creator-owned stuff on the side. Since he's a salaried employee (and who likely gets lots of other perks like benefits, nice office, executive privileges, etc), his bosses might frown upon him developing his own ideas outside of DC instead of spending time on DC stuff.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2016 15:41:13 GMT -5
For me, he's among the twenty best comic book writers of all time and would certainly rank in the top 5 in the last fifteen years. For my own enjoyment, I'd rather have him writing four comics a month than overlooking DC's properties in other media. Have you read anything he's tried to write outside the big 2? It's terrible derivative schlock. Which, stripped of the pleasure of the ruby nostalgia glasses pretty much describes his big 2 stuff as well. He wouldn't cut it doing creator-owned stuff, so he needs the comfort of DC's nostalgia brand to be able to work in the industry as much as DC needs the nostalgia fanboy sales to keep producing product, because outside of their evergreen trades, their print products aren't selling to anyone else (neither is Marvel's for that matter and they lack the evergreen trades to keep a foot in the larger print market). This is the kind of print product the big 2 is selling to the mass market, not comics... -M
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Post by Action Ace on Jul 28, 2016 16:10:17 GMT -5
For me, he's among the twenty best comic book writers of all time and would certainly rank in the top 5 in the last fifteen years. For my own enjoyment, I'd rather have him writing four comics a month than overlooking DC's properties in other media. Have you read anything he's tried to write outside the big 2? Other than a Humanoids comic that I haven't read, I can't recall him ever doing anything outside the Big 2. Were they from before he started at DC?
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Post by hondobrode on Jul 28, 2016 17:09:23 GMT -5
He respects continuity and works that, along with moving new concepts, and blends and balances them IMO.
DC & Marvel, the Big Two, don't want to shake things up too badly from a business standpoint as these characters being around for decades are more of a cash cow.
Marvel & DC aren't the cutting edge. If that's what you want, and I love a lot of it, go to the NON-Big Two, like Image, Dark Horse, Valiant, Oni, Fantagraphics, IDW, First Second, etc.
I'm 99 % done with Marvel, but I love DC continuity and all the crazy concepts and characters they have from the Trinity, Sgt Rock, Doom Patrol, I Vampire, Dr 13, Sandman, the House of Mystery, Jonah Hex, the Legion, etc.
I guess you could say it's the same old thing. It kind of is and it kind of isn't. It's not high brow, but I like it.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2016 0:14:14 GMT -5
Have you read anything he's tried to write outside the big 2? Other than a Humanoids comic that I haven't read, I can't recall him ever doing anything outside the Big 2. Were they from before he started at DC? There were a few stories in Metal Hurlant for Humanoids done around the same time he did Avengers for Marvel after he had done a bunch of DC work. All of them were stories I had seen before with the srial numbers filed off and and a sloppy attempt to cover them up with fresh paint and present them as new stories. Kind of like taking what was done with Green Lantern (green) and Sinestro (yellow) and doing it with the rest of the colors in he Crayola 8 pack of crayons and calling it fresh, original and creative, or giving the Flash Batman's origin (seeing his mom die) and calling it a fresh new take on the character. -M
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2016 0:21:26 GMT -5
He respects continuity and works that, along with moving new concepts, and blends and balances them IMO. DC & Marvel, the Big Two, don't want to shake things up too badly from a business standpoint as these characters being around for decades are more of a cash cow. Marvel & DC aren't the cutting edge. If that's what you want, and I love a lot of it, go to the NON-Big Two, like Image, Dark Horse, Valiant, Oni, Fantagraphics, IDW, First Second, etc. I'm 99 % done with Marvel, but I love DC continuity and all the crazy concepts and characters they have from the Trinity, Sgt Rock, Doom Patrol, I Vampire, Dr 13, Sandman, the House of Mystery, Jonah Hex, the Legion, etc. I guess you could say it's the same old thing. It kind of is and it kind of isn't. It's not high brow, but I like it. He only respects the continuity he likes, he pisses all over the continuity he doesn't like or the stuff that doesn't fit with his retro-angsty take on characters. If you like the same things he likes, you're golden, if not, your S.O.L. -M
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Post by Batflunkie on Jul 29, 2016 6:49:10 GMT -5
Kind of like taking what was done with Green Lantern (green) and Sinestro (yellow) and doing it with the rest of the colors in he Crayola 8 pack of crayons and calling it fresh, original and creative, or giving the Flash Batman's origin (seeing his mom die) and calling it a fresh new take on the character. With Green Lantern, the other color spectrums felt like a natural fit, Hope especially. But I can see your point, it did seem a bit much to have two seemingly major events devoted solely to Green Lantern. I'm also not sure how I feel about the Indigo Tribe and Larfleeze I can't say much in regards to the Flash origin except for the fact that it's kind of what got me interested in the character when it was adapted for the small screen with Grant Gustin. I knew verry little about Flash prior to that, but the show got me intrigued enough to check out the older comics
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Golddragon71
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Post by Golddragon71 on Jul 29, 2016 9:58:30 GMT -5
If I have one point against Johns it's his view that heroes need a tragic origin to make them interesting. (particularly in regards to Flash. Johns Invented the Reverse Flash killing Nora angle for Rebirth and now, even when discussing the Silver Age history of flash in behind the scenes featurettes* Johns recounts the incident as always having happened. (depite the fact that Barry's parents were alive and well right up until after he disappeared in the Crisis)
*(watch the Chasing the Flash feature about the Kevin Smith directed episode)
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Post by Batflunkie on Jul 29, 2016 10:03:20 GMT -5
I'm not saying that it wasn't in poor taste given how Barry's Silver Age origin was more of a "happy accident for the world's slowest man" compared to "having his mom killed off by a vindictive man from the future and had the murder blamed on the father". I think Johns read Wally West era Flash and just kind of wanted to rebuild Barry's origin based off of that (i.e. "tragedy drives sales"). You also have to consider that Flash was kind of a response to the success of Batman sleuth aspects, but in totally different ways, and it might explain why Johns did what he did
Like I said, I'm something of a late comer to this whole "Flash Hysteria", so please take my opinions with a grain of salt
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Golddragon71
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Immortal avatar of the Dragon Race The Golden Dragon
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Post by Golddragon71 on Jul 29, 2016 10:49:23 GMT -5
Well that's the other thing. Johns wrote most of Wally's latter issues and in the Blitz storyline he had Wally's friend Hunter Zolomon become ZOOM II (A successor to the Reverse Flash. Zolomon's twisted logic* was that he would use tragedy to make flash a better hero (such as causing Linda to miscarry and lose the ability to ever have children again.) When Flash Rebirth came about after Final Crisis, Johns more or less became hunter Zolomon and started on his own campaign to make heroes "better" by giving them tragedies. (except Green Lantern. His Father's death was invented for Emerald Dawn way back in 1990)
* Now for a villain to have that kind of twisted logic is great. In fact Former Wrestler Michael P.S. Hayes of the Fabulous Freebirds first came up with the idea that "a Bad guy has to believe he's right (in motive and action) no matter how screwed up his logic may be." Personally, though I feel that each hero should have an origin that sets them apart from others. Superman was rocketed to earth as a baby and grew up with Incredible Powers and Became the Greatest Hero of them all Batman saw his parents murdered in front of him as a child and trained himself mentally and physically to become the world's greatest detective and Fighter to prevent such a thing from happening to anyone else. Wonder Woman was molded out of clay by her mother and given life and power by the Gods to be an ambassador of Peace to the world. Aquaman was the son of a Lighthouse Keeper and the Queen of Atlantis who grew up learning to use his powers to control sealife and protect the seven seas. .Martian manhunter was the Last of his race when an Earth scientist attempting to contact life on mars instead brought J'Onn J'onzz to his lab. now trapped on Earthj the Martian chose to help mankind prevent the destruction of their world that Mars had suffered and took the form of a Police Detective John jones Green Arrow was a rich playboy who had fallen off his yacht and washed ashore on a deserted island. he used archery to hunt and stay alive. when he was able to get back to civilization he stopped a robber at a costume party and chose to fight crime following the thrill he got from the experience Black Canary was a young woman who wanted to be a Police officer but was refused admission to the academy. seeking adventure despite this she wore a black outfit with a Blonde wig to become the Hero of the golden age. Her daughter craving the same kind of adventures likewise trained herself in martial arts and with a sonic scream become the second Black Canary Green lantern was a test Pilot renowned for his fearlessness. he was recruited for this and for his utmost Honestly by a dying alien to take his place as a Cosmic Crusader Flash was a Forensic Scientist who was reading about the exploits of his favorite Comic Book Hero (the Golden age Flash) when Lightning struck the rack of chemicals he was working by. the resulting explosion doused him with the electrified chemicals and gave him the same abilities as his hero inspiring him to fight crime with the power of super speed
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Post by Batflunkie on Jul 29, 2016 11:10:06 GMT -5
Now for a villain to have that kind of twisted logic is great. In fact Former Wrestler Michael P.S. Hayes of the Fabulous Freebirds first came up with the idea that "a Bad guy has to believe he's right (in motive and action) no matter how screwed up his logic may be." Which is rather humorous considering the fact that Hayes is an arogant, egotistical dumbass. I'm really not sure if it's a "put on" for the sake of artistic integrity of his in-ring persona or how he really acts in real life, but he hasn't given much reason to doubt the latter
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Post by thwhtguardian on Jul 29, 2016 20:02:01 GMT -5
He respects continuity and works that, along with moving new concepts, and blends and balances them IMO. DC & Marvel, the Big Two, don't want to shake things up too badly from a business standpoint as these characters being around for decades are more of a cash cow. Marvel & DC aren't the cutting edge. If that's what you want, and I love a lot of it, go to the NON-Big Two, like Image, Dark Horse, Valiant, Oni, Fantagraphics, IDW, First Second, etc. I'm 99 % done with Marvel, but I love DC continuity and all the crazy concepts and characters they have from the Trinity, Sgt Rock, Doom Patrol, I Vampire, Dr 13, Sandman, the House of Mystery, Jonah Hex, the Legion, etc. I guess you could say it's the same old thing. It kind of is and it kind of isn't. It's not high brow, but I like it. He only respects the continuity he likes, he pisses all over the continuity he doesn't like or the stuff that doesn't fit with his retro-angsty take on characters. If you like the same things he likes, you're golden, if not, your S.O.L. -M That's more or less true of just about every writer in comics though; if your sensibilities are similar to theirs then you'll enjoy their work and if they are not then you won't. Heck that's true of all pop culture as well, not just comics.
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Post by dupersuper on Jul 29, 2016 21:00:05 GMT -5
Have you read anything he's tried to write outside the big 2? Other than a Humanoids comic that I haven't read, I can't recall him ever doing anything outside the Big 2. Were they from before he started at DC? Was that the story he did about a band of exorcists?
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