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Post by earl on Jul 30, 2016 6:36:26 GMT -5
"Why would he need to? Most creators that do creator-owned stuff are freelancers without a steady gig. "
I don't doubt Johns is busy and probably does quite a bit on the back end for the whole line. That said, most writers/artists have a couple of ideas they always wanted to try and you would figure a guy like Johns who could get access to some of the best artists in the comic industry would have one story to tell or character to put out there. Probably the TV work is the gig he really desires, I guess would be the reason.
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Post by String on Jul 31, 2016 16:59:48 GMT -5
I consider Johns' creation of the emotional spectrum right up there with Waid's creation of the Speed Force as two of the most innovative mainstream concepts of the last 20 years.
I've enjoyed the majority of his DC work over the years. I loved his overall story arc with Black Adam that ranged from JSA to 52 to other assorted titles and minis that featured love, loss, rage, and redemption.
So, congrats on his promotion, well deserved I believe.
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Post by fumetti on Jul 31, 2016 22:05:21 GMT -5
I think higher ups at WB have taken notice of him and his role within DC has grown and he's been assigned more and more. I've said before, I can't think of a better Editor-in-Chief than Johns. His appreciation of the past while blending new elements to advance the characters and storylines but having them make sense is what fandom is looking for. High hopes here. Slam, why don't you like Johns ? Johns is the most backward looking creator that I've ever come across. His entire modus operandi is to bring things back to the comics he read as a kid and re-tread that ground no matter how much earth he has to scorch to get there...and it appears the more earth he can bloody the better he likes it. He also is obsessed with taking niggling "continuity" points and making them into 20 part epic explanations of silly shit that never actually needed explained. I've never seen anything in any of his work that looks to move the medium forward in any way. It's all fan-service, largely servicing his own fan obsessions. He's the worst kind of continuity fetishist...continuity is all...as long as he likes it...if he doesn't he's going to piss on it and tell you it's raining. [My first post...hurray for me!]
That's pretty much why I think Geoff Johns is the best writer DC has (although I would not characterize him or his work as you have). I can trust him to care about the character, not simply exploiting it to advance himself in some way. By making the characters great again, as in the case of Hal Jordan, he becomes great. I wish more writers worked this way.
I don't think it's a negative that Johns hasn't tried to "advance" comics in some way. (Honestly, I don't know what that means. I just want them done well.) Someone needs to stand up for the "old guard," for the characters that built this industry and for stories of heroism and self-sacrifice. All that comes in the Geoff Johns package.
Continuity is king in comics. Fandom craves it, demands loyalty to it, to one degree or another. When I was reading comics in the 70s I felt a part of something. I felt each issue was another thread in a giant, ongoing tapestry. I relished every footnote by "Archie" (although, admittedly, I didn't understand at age 8 why Archie Andrews was talking in my Marvel comic....but I digress). The led me to seek out other issues to increase my knowledge of Marvel mythology, and became absolutely essential once I discovered comic shops and back issues!
I wonder, how many people would watch Game of Thrones if every character who was killed off came back the next season without any explanation, any adherence to continuity? I'd say people would be angry. They demand a good, in-story explanation for this twist. Continuity isn't so much a shackle as it is respect for your customers, I think. It's been decades since comics were bought primarily by casual traffic in a drug store. No, the people footing the bills for this industry are more likely dedicated followers who want it all to mean something, that today's new issue will matter--for at least a while. Continuity honors that.
So I think Johns has earned this promotion (although I believe it's only regarding movies, etc., and not the comics themselves). He deserves it. I just wish he still had time to write Hal Jordan and Barry Allen.
Anyway... Nice website, folks!
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2016 22:41:41 GMT -5
Johns doesn't respect continuity or the legacy of creators, he promotes what he likes-he had no respect for the Ditko or O'Neill versions of the question and pissed all over that legacy to turn the Question into some kind of cosmic sinner to fit what he wanted to do with the Trinity of Sin event (which really was made up on the fly because all that was hyped and previewed for it got ditched when fan reaction for it was terrible). He did the same with the aspects of the character of the Phantom Stranger to make it fit what he wanted to do continuity or legacy be damned. He grew up a fan or GL and Flash, so those can't be touched, but things he was not a fan of growing up were fair game to be torched and a scorched earth left behind.
Johns time at DC can be characterized by poorly conceived or executed events, crossovers and soft or hard reboots that lead to sales spikes, alternating with periods of sales attrition where the median sales for the line falls to below where it was before the event when the shiny new of the event/cross-over/reboot wears off and consumers lose interest and stop buying until the next event/cross-over/reboot which peters out and leaves the line overall selling worse than it did before leading for the need for another something something to spike the line. Rebirth is just the latest something something of his tenure (what the 4th maybe 5th something something he and Didio have tried all of which in the end left the line of books as a whole selling less than it did before they took over. Rebirth is in the shiny new phase and seeing the sales spike, but with double-shipping, 12 page lead stories by some of the the creative team to keep the schedule, books not matching solicitations, and all the other nonsense that is part and parcel of it and DC already telling us it is a 2 year plan then we will see whatever the next something something is, the question is will this spike be any different than those of all the Crisis, Flashpoints, new52, villain month, Zero Issues, DCYOu, Convergence that has characterized his time there and caused the median sales number for the line to grow smaller and smaller since they took over despite a couple of title seeing large growth for short spurts (which makes it even worse-if those titles are spiking so high but the median is steadily dropping, how bad is the rest of the line doing overall during his time at DC?)?
Johns makes fanboys feel good about certain aspects of their fandom, but overall he has not been good for DC's bottom line, DC's overall legacy outside of his pet favorites, overall line continuity, overall line sales, etc. etc. All are in worse shape now than when he came into a position of influence/power at DC. Moving him into the TV division and away from the DC line of books and not letting him write any more books may be the best decision DC publishing has made in over a decade. Now to isolate Didio from the books as well...
-M
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2016 22:46:21 GMT -5
I consider Johns' creation of the emotional spectrum right up there with Waid's creation of the Speed Force as two of the most innovative mainstream concepts of the last 20 years.I've enjoyed the majority of his DC work over the years. I loved his overall story arc with Black Adam that ranged from JSA to 52 to other assorted titles and minis that featured love, loss, rage, and redemption. So, congrats on his promotion, well deserved I believe. How is copying what was already done by other creators for green and yellow with their attendant emotions and saying all the other colors have it too in any way innovative? That's pretty much textbook derivative thinking. Waid did something that hadn't been seen or conceived of before witht he Speed Force, Johns did what others had done but with more colors. -M |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2016 22:54:09 GMT -5
I'll say this about Rebirth, every other initiative under Johns has petered out in 2 years or less and sales have tanked within that time. If 2 years from now, the Rebirth sales are still higher than pre-revamp numbers or still growing, I will admit I was wrong about it, but if within 2 years it's sales do what every other DC initiative has done this century, then it will be seen by history as just another attempt to spike sale sin the short term with no real legs. WE will hav eot wait and see before we have any real answer though.
-M
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
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Post by shaxper on Jul 31, 2016 23:09:52 GMT -5
Anyway... Nice website, folks! Welcome, and thank you! |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jul 31, 2016 23:18:06 GMT -5
I don't hate Geoff Johns like I hate Hickman, but I'd rather he stay away from the comics I like... he did an ok job with JSA, and his New 52 Aquaman was decent for a while, but by and large I just don't like him. I haven't enjoyed a Green Lantern of Flash story since he took them over.. partly because I like Wally and Kyle better than Barry and Hal, but mostly because his ideas are just kinda silly. I hated the color spectrum thing.
I don't think he's a continuity guy like, say Roy Thomas is. He just is in a position to make his personal canon the ACTUAL canon, and does so.
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Post by berkley on Jul 31, 2016 23:24:11 GMT -5
Maybe Johns is good at the kind of comics he likes to write - I can't really tell because they aren't the kind of comics I want to read. As others here have already said, to me it looks like endlessly rehashing what's gone before - and not even getting it right, in the case of the characters and concepts I happen to be interested in, the New Gods. So I tend to stay away, far away, from anything with his name on it.
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Post by thwhtguardian on Aug 1, 2016 8:24:16 GMT -5
I'll say this about Rebirth, every other initiative under Johns has petered out in 2 years or less and sales have tanked within that time. If 2 years from now, the Rebirth sales are still higher than pre-revamp numbers or still growing, I will admit I was wrong about it, but if within 2 years it's sales do what every other DC initiative has done this century, then it will be seen by history as just another attempt to spike sale sin the short term with no real legs. WE will hav eot wait and see before we have any real answer though. -M I'm not sure this really has much to do with Johns, it seems more like a symptom of super hero comics in general than Johns specifically. And maybe it's his kind of writing that has helped get the genre where it is, but I don't think it can be heaped at his feat...and that's coming from somebody that isn't a big fan of his. |
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Post by Nowhere Man on Aug 1, 2016 10:19:34 GMT -5
I tried the first eight or so issues of New 52 Justice League and couldn't believe how poorly written it was. It was like I was reading anti-Alan Moore. I also read the first arc of his Aquaman and I think that was far superior to his Justice League. I get the feeling the mandate for Justice League was "big-screen and dumb."
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2016 11:14:28 GMT -5
I'll say this about Rebirth, every other initiative under Johns has petered out in 2 years or less and sales have tanked within that time. If 2 years from now, the Rebirth sales are still higher than pre-revamp numbers or still growing, I will admit I was wrong about it, but if within 2 years it's sales do what every other DC initiative has done this century, then it will be seen by history as just another attempt to spike sale sin the short term with no real legs. WE will hav eot wait and see before we have any real answer though. -M I'm not sure this really has much to do with Johns, it seems more like a symptom of super hero comics in general than Johns specifically. And maybe it's his kind of writing that has helped get the genre where it is, but I don't think it can be heaped at his feat...and that's coming from somebody that isn't a big fan of his. It might not all be heaped at his feet, but it is the reality people need to acknowledge before they hail Johns as the savior of DC comics or that he has caused DC to be a tremendous success while there-he has done nothing to reverse the general trend of DC's decline while he has been there, and since he has been in charge of the creative decisions the trend has only steepened not lessened. DC Comics is in a worse place now then before Johns got there. He's not some savior or golden boy, he is part of the problem. -M |
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Post by thwhtguardian on Aug 1, 2016 11:49:50 GMT -5
I'm not sure this really has much to do with Johns, it seems more like a symptom of super hero comics in general than Johns specifically. And maybe it's his kind of writing that has helped get the genre where it is, but I don't think it can be heaped at his feat...and that's coming from somebody that isn't a big fan of his. It might not all be heaped at his feet, but it is the reality people need to acknowledge before they hail Johns as the savior of DC comics or that he has caused DC to be a tremendous success while there-he has done nothing to reverse the general trend of DC's decline while he has been there, and since he has been in charge of the creative decisions the trend has only steepened not lessened. DC Comics is in a worse place now then before Johns got there. He's not some savior or golden boy, he is part of the problem. -M I don't know if you can even rightly say that much: 2000:33.56% of units sold, 31.88% dollars 2001:31.71%/30.85% 2002:29.44%/28.35% 2003:30.60%/29.89% 2004:32.23%/30.63% 2005:35.46%/32.96% 2006:36.95%/34.47% 2007:34.71%/31.92% 2008: 31.67%/29.94% 2009: 32.22%/ 29.28% 2010: 34.00%/30.39% 2011:36.77%/ 31.41% 2012:36.75%/31.94% 2013: 33.35%/30.33% 2014:32.47%/ 28.86% 2015:27.35%/25.75% Sure, the last year was a low point for DC but it wasn't that far off the average for them so it's not as if Johns sunk the ship here. Did he sail the ship to glory? Nope, but he's stayed the course to DC's average. |
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shaxper
CCF Site Custodian
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Post by shaxper on Aug 1, 2016 11:54:11 GMT -5
but he's stayed the course to DC's average. Isn't that mrp's point? |
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Post by Ish Kabbible on Aug 1, 2016 12:47:54 GMT -5
Not only is the 2015 percentage an all time low on the chart above, but the decline from the previous year (2014) is a phenomenal drop-over 3 percentage points. Steepest on the 21st century. No point trying to spin that as a positive or even as maintaining DCs position
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