shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Aug 1, 2016 15:18:48 GMT -5
I missed it, but last month was the thirty year anniversary of Star Brand #1 hitting stands, so I thought it made sense to create a place for discussing Jim Shooter's big experiment: the highs, the lows, what went right, and especially what went wrong.
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shaxper
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Posts: 22,874
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Post by shaxper on Aug 1, 2016 15:23:19 GMT -5
I've personally read DP 7, Psi-Force, and Star Brand. Of those, only DP 7 was unequivocally good, and even then, only up to a point.
That being said, I've enjoyed the later iterations of the New Universe properties: Valiant's Harbinger borrowed heavily from both DP 7 and Psi-Force, I liked the New Universe one-shots Marvel did to renew the trademarks in the 2000s, and I adored Warren Ellis' Newuniversal until it ended abruptly.
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Post by brutalis on Aug 1, 2016 15:44:04 GMT -5
This i remember from when i was a full blown Marvel Zombie. At the time was very excited with the influx of new ideas and hero's being created. But the actual execution left a lot to be desired as quickly i found little to enjoy or follow. I started off with the 1st issues of all the series: DP 7, Justice, Kickers Inc, Marc Hazzard: Merc, Nightmask, Psi-force, Spitfire and the Troubleshooters, and Star Brand. Quickly dropped all but DP7, Hazzard, Justice and Psi-force. Picked up Star Brand again towards the end but it wasn't enough. Some had potential but whether it was the rush to getting them out or the writer's just not caring for what they created all of the New U faded away. Marvel seemed to push them all but they all were mired in mediocre stories with trying to keep things "too real" yet selling it as the biggest thing ever. Sadly it was all too plain and vanilla for me coming from what was once the "house of ideas".
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Aug 1, 2016 15:59:23 GMT -5
I enjoyed Jim Shooter's explanation of what went wrong with the New Universe more than I did the NU itself (Shooter's initial idea was a clean reboot of the Marvel line).
I thought it was weird to have the NU described as "the universe outside your door" and then have characters like Nightmask and Justice in it (although Justice was later retconned as not actually coming from another dimension).
I enjoyed some issues of Star Brand... not so much for the stories, but for the little bits of "real world" that crept into it. Things like its main character flying standing up instead of adopting a Superman pose, or his being unable to find Earth again after being shot into space. (He eventually managed to do it by flying back toward the brightest star he could see, assuming it was the sun, and then orbiting it until he could see our planet. Lucky for him he was thrown along the ecliptic and not at 90 degrees from it!)
Merc is also an odd bird, in that it ends celebrating the brave rebel group that would one day become... the Taliban.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Aug 1, 2016 16:55:27 GMT -5
To my knowledge I've never read a single New Universe issue.
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Post by String on Aug 1, 2016 17:27:16 GMT -5
I remember the excitement and speculation about this venture back then. No one was entirely sure what this would mean for the MU or how it might impact it.
When it was released, I tried Star Brand, Psi-Force, and Spitfire & the Troubleshooters. I didn't stick with any of the titles for long though. Recently, I was surprised to find that I had Kickers Inc #1. Yet I don't remember buying it nor even reading it!
When Hickman began using certain NU elements in his Avengers magnum opus, elements based off of Ellis' NewUniversal project, I did check that out and really enjoyed it, eventually buying the one-shots and the two issues of the sequel.
I think it's good that there are still NU elements currently in use at Marvel. A Starbrand and Nightmask are still around and Blur from DP7 is a member of the current Squadron Supreme the last that I saw.
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Post by hondobrode on Aug 1, 2016 19:46:41 GMT -5
I liked the idea of "the world outside your door" and yet, my world is incredibly boring compared to comics and superheroes.
When I was in college I got the Comic Buyer's Guide and remember reading a big article and thinking it was smart of Shooter to try to make a separate universe. There was talent there, like Lee Weeks and Johnny Romita Jr, but except for buying Star Brand # 1 years later for a quarter, upon flipping through them at the LCS, I never bought one.
Later on, The Pitt looked kind of cool, but I was too out of touch.
Haven't read the Ellis New Universal but it sure sounds good.
The connection wasn't there until I read Shax's post mentioning Valiant, but yeah, I definitely see the parallels between the two, but Shooter obviously pushed Valiant more towards the conventional side but sort of keeping in line with that original New U theme.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Aug 1, 2016 19:55:32 GMT -5
Haven't read the Ellis New Universal but it sure sounds good. It was an amazing start, but then Ellis claimed his computer came down with a virus and he'd made no back-ups, refusing to re-write anything, and the series just sort of...ended.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2016 20:08:24 GMT -5
I only remember reading Star Brand #1. Did it collapse because Shooter left Marvel? And did Shooter use some of these ideas when he started doing new characters (like XO) for Valiant? I don't remember much excitement with this line back in the 80's...
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Aug 1, 2016 20:17:14 GMT -5
I only remember reading Star Brand #1. Did it collapse because Shooter left Marvel? And did Shooter use some of these ideas when he started doing new characters (like XO) for Valiant? I don't remember much excitement with this line back in the 80's... It was in trouble from the start, really. And yes, I think there's a lot of NU in early Valiant.
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Post by Bronze Age Brian on Aug 1, 2016 20:44:20 GMT -5
I remember hearing about the hype but then I bought two issues: Kickers Inc. #2 and Spitfire and the Troubleshooters #2 and was extremely disappointed. The covers looked OK, usually not much can go wrong with giant robots and death tanks, it was just that the characters were so lackluster to me. Boring. Maybe I choose the wrong series? If there was a decent series in the New Universe, which was it?
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Post by Paste Pot Paul on Aug 1, 2016 20:46:01 GMT -5
I loved Kickers Inc ... fml...
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Aug 1, 2016 21:05:04 GMT -5
If there was a decent series in the New Universe, which was it? DP 7. The first year was really really good.
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Post by Nowhere Man on Aug 1, 2016 21:20:48 GMT -5
If memory serves, Shooter's basic reason (at least creatively) for wanting to reboot the Marvel Universe was that he felt that Marvel had remained too indebted to Jack Kirby's creative vision. I'm not sure how much the lawsuit played into that, but I both strongly disagree and agree with his basic premise. Kirby's creations have lasted and remained prominent because they were so good and universal in appeal, but their continued existence was never the problem. The problem is that creators learned from Kirby's example and stopped giving Marvel all their best ideas. Marvel only has Marvel to blame for this. This goes beyond Marvel, of course. From my perspective, you should at least partially own anything you create. How much of a percentage should be based on the valuated risk of production, marketing, etc.
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Crimebuster
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Post by Crimebuster on Aug 1, 2016 22:52:49 GMT -5
DP7 was great. As shaxper said, the first year is the best.
I liked the design, name, and powers for Nightmask, though the actual character and stories were kind of boring.
Justice I remember being kind of interesting, then it got increasingly bizarre as the creators just went with the fact that the New Universe was imploding and decided to just write whatever the heck they could come up with.
I liked Psi-Force, but I didn't know it was essentially the Forever People only with the gibberish Jack Kirby dialogue. I dug the Mark Texeira art though.
The other titles were all crap if I recall correctly.
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