shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Feb 6, 2024 15:22:28 GMT -5
The one criticism I've heard about the new Trek tied to "wokeness" involves their emphasis on trans representation. I find that odd, since TNG and DS9 went there too. In a certain way as I stated before. But I suppose all of this makes sense if you look at a black woman who just wants to be free and live her life and not be judged be the color of her skin, the same as a confuse 8 year old being given hormones and blockers by his LGBTG+ teacher and scheduling his reassignment surgery behind his parents back. Your right Startrek in a way has always been somewhat progressive to a point, combined with great characters and wonderful storytelling. But they have gone from challenging thought to pushing current progressive and far left social-political narative. I'm wondering whose political narrative you've been listening to, my friend. Got any links confirming that any of what you stated above has ever actually happened?
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Post by GoldenAge Heroes! on Feb 6, 2024 15:26:31 GMT -5
In a certain way as I stated before. But I suppose all of this makes sense if you look at a black woman who just wants to be free and live her life and not be judged be the color of her skin, the same as a confuse 8 year old being given hormones and blockers by his LGBTG+ teacher and scheduling his reassignment surgery behind his parents back. Your right Startrek in a way has always been somewhat progressive to a point, combined with great characters and wonderful storytelling. But they have gone from challenging thought to pushing current progressive and far left social-political narative. I'm wondering whose political narrative you've been listening to, my friend. Got any links confirming that any of what you stated above has ever actually happened? As far as the trans things no, as far as the spite of modern-contemporary feminism and bad storytelling and out-of-character acting, yes. Sorry no clips for ya, don't watch the shows, tried to - God help me. But I have seen enough clips and footage to certainly form an opinion.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Feb 7, 2024 8:07:27 GMT -5
There's not that much new stuff....
so there is Discovery... they started out in the past (to let Pike spin off), and then went WAY into the future, so it's essentially it's own thing. I watched the 1st two seasons, its OK, not great. It's definitely far more character driven than idea driven as previous Trek is... that's not for everyone, including me. I may watch more, but I may not, we'll see. My big problem is the tech.. unlike when they did Enterprise, they didn't try to make it look like the tech level of Kirk's Enterprise, so it's weird.
Picard is out and out fan service. It's great fun for a long time fan, but is definitely a little silly at times.. especially this last season (which could have been alot shorter). it also is not the usual episodic Trek, but rather is one ongoing plot throughout. This is directly the sequel to TNG, so one could argue it's the 'main' timeline. I got a couple episodes left (watching this one with the wife)... I've heard they set up a new show but not sure.
Strange New Worlds is the 'fill in the cracks' show that Disney loves so they can capitalize on nostalgia without actually taking any plot risks. it's a bit odd, but it definitely feels like Star trek. Pike feels like the David Tennant of Star Trek captains, he just wants to be a super hero. He's not show as particularly good at his job though (except when he is), which is odd. They're also going hard into the Spock - Nurse Chappell relationship, which is a bit weird since we know how that goes. The best of the show is the new characters for sure.
Lower Decks I've only watched a bit of.. it's essentially self-satire though... I can't imagine anyone taking it seriously as far as plot/timeline etc. Its fun at time and just silly at others, as most shows of that type are.
Last episode they did their version of 'Measure of a Man'... one of the crew was on trial for being genetically modified, and it was very much the crusading Trek that has always come before, using Sci-Fi to talk about a current political issue.
I think in Picard the characters have been decently in character.... considering time has past and all people grow and change as the get older. Warf being all zen is kinda odd, but that's clearly meant to be funny. Otherwise, the other characters seems spot on to me.
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Roquefort Raider
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Feb 7, 2024 8:52:29 GMT -5
(...) Strange New Worlds is the 'fill in the cracks' show that Disney loves so they can capitalize on nostalgia without actually taking any plot risks. it's a bit odd, but it definitely feels like Star trek. Pike feels like the David Tennant of Star Trek captains, he just wants to be a super hero. He's not show as particularly good at his job though (except when he is), which is odd. They're also going hard into the Spock - Nurse Chappell relationship, which is a bit weird since we know how that goes. The best of the show is the new characters for sure. (...) I've only watched season 2 and quite agree with you. It feels like Star Trek. It might be funnier and less philosophical, but the overall tone is right. Considering the differences we already have observed with TOS (clearly better-looking tech, Spock suddenly having a human sister, his relationship with Chapel, T'Pring's existence being well-known to the crew, the Gorn already being a threat), I wouldn't mind if the showrunners just dropped the pretense that this is a prequel to the old series. It's clearly a parallel timeline, though one closer to the original than the Kelvin universe was, and as far as this individual show is concerned I'd rather have things be open-ended than set in stone.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Feb 7, 2024 9:36:00 GMT -5
Agreed... I'm not sure I love the throw backs though... so after clearly doing a riff on Measure of the Man, the next ep is a their version of city on the Edge of Forever
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Roquefort Raider
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Feb 7, 2024 9:52:09 GMT -5
Not to mention that they did their version of Aliens with the Gorn.
And that's definitely a retcon I could have done without. The critters don't look like Gorn, they don't act like Gorn, they're used at a time before we're supposed to have ever met them... why call them Gorn at all?
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Post by sunofdarkchild on Feb 7, 2024 10:07:51 GMT -5
I enjoy Strange New Worlds for the most part, but I hate how they write Spock. The Chapel relationship is weird enough, but the way he's written undermines his entire character arc from TOS through Undiscovered Country. Spock is supposed to be 'more Vulcan than the Vulcans' before his friendship with Kirk and McCoy. By far my least favorite episode is the 1 where he becomes human and all of a sudden his emotions are in overdrive. If the writers bothered to do any research they'd know that Vulcans are not unemotional because of genetics, but because of learned discipline. If anything their emotions are stronger and harder to control than a human's. If they were being at all consistent with canon Spock should have had a much easier time controlling his emotions as a full human than he does normally. Spock's character and the Vulcan race have been sacrificed on the altar of comic relief.
It wasn't until the finale of season 2 that I started to think that Pike might not be a good captain. In terms of the season 1 finale, the point was that he had to accept that his time was ending and he would have to step aside fairly soon for the next generation of Starfleet commanders. He and Kirk are equal, but Pike is better suited for his time and Kirk is better suited for his time. After season 2's finale, I'm not as sure of that anymore.
Only watched season 3 of Picard because I heard such terrible things about the first 2 seasons. Season 3 coasted more on fanservice than on quality writing, especially once the changeling commander was dealt with, but it did work and I'd like to see the potential 'Legacy' series of the Enterprise G. I did think it was stupid that they expected us to believe that a galaxy-class-style ship could maneuver like an X-Wing. Maybe the point was that it was that specific model of ship that no one else could fly in that scenario and if they had a ship designed to be able to turn it wouldn't have been an issue. The actual maneuvering shown on screen wasn't that impressive to begin with and would have been child's play for the Defiant or even the Constitution Class.
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Feb 7, 2024 10:20:45 GMT -5
There's not that much new stuff.... so there is Discovery... they started out in the past (to let Pike spin off), and then went WAY into the future, so it's essentially it's own thing. I watched the 1st two seasons, its OK, not great. It's definitely far more character driven than idea driven as previous Trek is... that's not for everyone, including me. I may watch more, but I may not, we'll see. My big problem is the tech.. unlike when they did Enterprise, they didn't try to make it look like the tech level of Kirk's Enterprise, so it's weird. Picard is out and out fan service. It's great fun for a long time fan, but is definitely a little silly at times.. especially this last season (which could have been alot shorter). it also is not the usual episodic Trek, but rather is one ongoing plot throughout. This is directly the sequel to TNG, so one could argue it's the 'main' timeline. I got a couple episodes left (watching this one with the wife)... I've heard they set up a new show but not sure. Strange New Worlds is the 'fill in the cracks' show that Disney loves so they can capitalize on nostalgia without actually taking any plot risks. it's a bit odd, but it definitely feels like Star trek. Pike feels like the David Tennant of Star Trek captains, he just wants to be a super hero. He's not show as particularly good at his job though (except when he is), which is odd. They're also going hard into the Spock - Nurse Chappell relationship, which is a bit weird since we know how that goes. The best of the show is the new characters for sure. Lower Decks I've only watched a bit of.. it's essentially self-satire though... I can't imagine anyone taking it seriously as far as plot/timeline etc. Its fun at time and just silly at others, as most shows of that type are. Last episode they did their version of 'Measure of a Man'... one of the crew was on trial for being genetically modified, and it was very much the crusading Trek that has always come before, using Sci-Fi to talk about a current political issue. I think in Picard the characters have been decently in character.... considering time has past and all people grow and change as the get older. Warf being all zen is kinda odd, but that's clearly meant to be funny. Otherwise, the other characters seems spot on to me. There's also Prodigy. I'm so glad there is new Trek content being made and that, for the most part, it seems to be pretty quality, but I have a hard enough time keeping up with one show, let alone five.
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Post by Calidore on Feb 7, 2024 11:04:54 GMT -5
I'm wondering whose political narrative you've been listening to, my friend. Got any links confirming that any of what you stated above has ever actually happened? As far as the trans things no, as far as the spite of modern-contemporary feminism and bad storytelling and out-of-character acting, yes. Sorry no clips for ya, don't watch the shows, tried to - God help me. But I have seen enough clips to certainly form an opinion. The danger of forming an opinion based only on clips out of context is that those clips may have been chosen specifically to help form said opinion.
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Post by impulse on Feb 7, 2024 17:37:17 GMT -5
The only nitpick I'd add about describing Lower Decks as self-satire is it's not pure mockery. There's an element of...I don't want to quite say homage, but respect and authenticity. Like it's obviously not canon, but it's not mocking the source material.
I've heard it said that The Orville is the best Trek on right now. I haven't seen enough of the newer ones to fully weigh in, but if you like TNG and DS9, it's both a modern take and love letter to that era, and it is surprisingly well done. It has some of the original writers from that period, too. I was worried it would be too silly, like 20% Trek and 80% Family Guy, but it was the opposite in Season 1, and each subsequent season has phased out the Family Guy to where Season 3 was all but totally straight serious Sci fi.
If you don't mind the absence of Star Fleet branding, it's great.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Feb 9, 2024 0:50:47 GMT -5
I definitely need to watch the Orville one of these days.
I had totally forgotten about Prodigy, and then looking it up apparently its been removed from Paramount, so they are trying to forget it too.
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Post by EdoBosnar on Feb 9, 2024 4:10:58 GMT -5
I think I've mentioned it upthread before, but I was very pleasantly surprised by the Orville. It's just a very well-made across the board: high production values, strong cast and great scripts/stories.
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Post by impulse on Feb 9, 2024 15:27:15 GMT -5
Yep, it's like a great modern homage to 80s/90s Trek but like they didn't have the Star Trek license.
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Post by GoldenAge Heroes! on Feb 9, 2024 15:43:00 GMT -5
As far as the trans things no, as far as the spite of modern-contemporary feminism and bad storytelling and out-of-character acting, yes. Sorry no clips for ya, don't watch the shows, tried to - God help me. But I have seen enough clips to certainly form an opinion. The danger of forming an opinion based only on clips out of context is that those clips may have been chosen specifically to help form said opinion. I understand, wise advice . . . but I've seen enough general footage in context and tried to watch Discovery and tried to watch the first two seasons of Picard and tried to watch Strange New World that I'm not just taking out my ass.
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Post by GoldenAge Heroes! on Feb 13, 2024 15:09:44 GMT -5
This is interesting. Always enjoy the Dave Cullen Show and his general thoughts about Trek and fandom in general:
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