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Post by Lolatadatodo on Nov 25, 2016 8:53:28 GMT -5
You picked a great time to leave. The series really went down the tubes after that, IMHO. Well, that was part of it. Wolverine and Mariko's wedding was sabotaged, after all of the events of the mini-series, I didn't like the new art, and the story was tedious. I wasn't overly fond of the return of Mastermind, just before, as it seemed like a rehash of Dark Phoenix. We had already gone through it with X-Men/New Teen Titans, though that was alternate world stuff, so it was cool. I just felt like Claremont was out of ideas, afraid of mature relationships and the whole cycle was just repeating itself. I was aided by going off to college and money being tight (though not tight enough that I didn't read other comics) and just made a break with it. Didn't miss it, as Claremont continued his obsession with Alien and the art just seemed to get worse and worse; or at least, far enough away from what I enjoyed. Thankfully, Classic X-Men started up not too much later and I could revisit the days when everything was forming and being improvised, including all of the stuff I missed. That was my X-Men fix, for the next few years, until it caught up with where I had the complete issues. The early days were more fun, as they just kind of tried things out, doing short pieces, while slowly developing larger stories. For instance, when Eric the Red shows up, we kind of have single issue stories, but the mystery of Eric and whatever brainwashing of Havoc and Polaris happened, and then we got something else, and a bit more, whether it was a scene aboard the Starjammer or Xavier's dreams of Lilandra. Then, they went full-on Star wars, with the Shi'ar and Byrne came on board, and it turned epic. Byrne may have helped turn it into The X-Men; but, I preferred the swashbuckling stories of Dave Cockrum. Don't get me wrong, I love Dark Phoenix and all of that; but, it lost a sense of fun, which only seemed to turn up occasionally, when they played baseball, and when Kitty told bedtime stories. Well, I am glad you clarified. For a second there, I thought you simply stopped reading it because you got fed up with Wolverine being saved by women. |
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Post by codystarbuck on Nov 25, 2016 10:33:48 GMT -5
Well, that was part of it. Wolverine and Mariko's wedding was sabotaged, after all of the events of the mini-series, I didn't like the new art, and the story was tedious. I wasn't overly fond of the return of Mastermind, just before, as it seemed like a rehash of Dark Phoenix. We had already gone through it with X-Men/New Teen Titans, though that was alternate world stuff, so it was cool. I just felt like Claremont was out of ideas, afraid of mature relationships and the whole cycle was just repeating itself. I was aided by going off to college and money being tight (though not tight enough that I didn't read other comics) and just made a break with it. Didn't miss it, as Claremont continued his obsession with Alien and the art just seemed to get worse and worse; or at least, far enough away from what I enjoyed. Thankfully, Classic X-Men started up not too much later and I could revisit the days when everything was forming and being improvised, including all of the stuff I missed. That was my X-Men fix, for the next few years, until it caught up with where I had the complete issues. The early days were more fun, as they just kind of tried things out, doing short pieces, while slowly developing larger stories. For instance, when Eric the Red shows up, we kind of have single issue stories, but the mystery of Eric and whatever brainwashing of Havoc and Polaris happened, and then we got something else, and a bit more, whether it was a scene aboard the Starjammer or Xavier's dreams of Lilandra. Then, they went full-on Star wars, with the Shi'ar and Byrne came on board, and it turned epic. Byrne may have helped turn it into The X-Men; but, I preferred the swashbuckling stories of Dave Cockrum. Don't get me wrong, I love Dark Phoenix and all of that; but, it lost a sense of fun, which only seemed to turn up occasionally, when they played baseball, and when Kitty told bedtime stories. Well, I am glad you clarified. For a second there, I thought you simply stopped reading it because you got fed up with Wolverine being saved by women. Nope; just repetitive plots and art that didn't do much for me. I sampled the waters when Jim Lee was drawing; but, didn't think much of the story. I have no problem with Wolverine being saved by women, elves, smurfs or whatever. |
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Post by dbutler69 on Nov 25, 2016 12:06:47 GMT -5
You picked a great time to leave. The series really went down the tubes after that, IMHO. Well, that was part of it. Wolverine and Mariko's wedding was sabotaged, after all of the events of the mini-series, I didn't like the new art, and the story was tedious. I wasn't overly fond of the return of Mastermind, just before, as it seemed like a rehash of Dark Phoenix. We had already gone through it with X-Men/New Teen Titans, though that was alternate world stuff, so it was cool. I just felt like Claremont was out of ideas, afraid of mature relationships and the whole cycle was just repeating itself. I was aided by going off to college and money being tight (though not tight enough that I didn't read other comics) and just made a break with it. Didn't miss it, as Claremont continued his obsession with Alien and the art just seemed to get worse and worse; or at least, far enough away from what I enjoyed. Thankfully, Classic X-Men started up not too much later and I could revisit the days when everything was forming and being improvised, including all of the stuff I missed. That was my X-Men fix, for the next few years, until it caught up with where I had the complete issues. The early days were more fun, as they just kind of tried things out, doing short pieces, while slowly developing larger stories. For instance, when Eric the Red shows up, we kind of have single issue stories, but the mystery of Eric and whatever brainwashing of Havoc and Polaris happened, and then we got something else, and a bit more, whether it was a scene aboard the Starjammer or Xavier's dreams of Lilandra. Then, they went full-on Star wars, with the Shi'ar and Byrne came on board, and it turned epic. Byrne may have helped turn it into The X-Men; but, I preferred the swashbuckling stories of Dave Cockrum. Don't get me wrong, I love Dark Phoenix and all of that; but, it lost a sense of fun, which only seemed to turn up occasionally, when they played baseball, and when Kitty told bedtime stories. Exactly! I've said to my self that I thought Claremont ran out of ideas and started recycling them. You mentioned rehashing Dark Phoenix, and he did the same with Uncanny X-Men #147, which basically gave us Dark Storm. The the last straw for me was #184 where he re-introduced Rachel Summers, thus beginning Claremont's endless recycling of The Days of Future Past. He lost me at that point. I also wonder if the stories themselves, aside from the art, suffered from Byrne's absence. As far as the art, it went from awesome (Byrne/Austin) to very good (Cockrum) to good (Smith) to absolutely terrible (Romita jr) and I think the storytelling turned darker, reflecting Romita's art. Yes, I agree that the fun was lost be about the mid-80's. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2016 13:38:11 GMT -5
Yes, I agree that the fun was lost be about the mid-80's. I've got a full run from #94-143 but it gets spotted after that, with many gaps. They're easy to get though. |
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Post by hondobrode on Nov 25, 2016 14:57:55 GMT -5
I had it up to the end of the Goblin Queen storyline, and with a few exceptions, like Barry Windsor-Smith's two Life Death issues.
I asked myself when the quality dropped off, and it was # 176 when JR Jr came on. It felt forced and out of synch with the characters.
I came on again with # 281 when Byrne and the Image boys had a big brouhaha and was completely lost and didn't care.
At that point I traded everything for store credit. It stands as one of the best comic things I've ever done.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2016 16:09:00 GMT -5
I actually prefer mid to late 80's X-Men and I know I'm probably alone in this. I think Ann Nocenti helped make X-Men more interes ting. It's when Bob Harras and Jim Lee show up when I lose interest. JR JR's art is more in sync with comtemporary fashion at that time, which was already androgynous and influenced by queer culture. I just love it. You are not alone in this. I love the Romita Jr. run. It is one of my favorites of the entire Claremont run. The transition from Paul Smith to JR JR. can be a little jarring for some but I was always a huge fan. His art was more fitting for the time as comics then were getting more violent and bloodier. My favorite era for the X-men were the 1980's especially the "Outback Era" that started circa issue #229 or so. Marc Silvesti was another favorite artist from that time that I love. So your not alone. |
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RikerDonegal
Full Member
Most of the comics I'm reading at the moment are Marvels from 1982.
Posts: 128 
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Post by RikerDonegal on Nov 25, 2016 16:19:54 GMT -5
I actually prefer mid to late 80's X-Men and I know I'm probably alone in this. Nope! Me, too. At the start of the 80s I was reading and loving the series every month and totally agree that it is an all-time classic. That run up to #137 alone.... Wow. However... My favourite run by far is the 210-281 run that came out 1986-1991. I like the team members much, much better. Liked the art much, much better and was blown away by the storylines. That, to me, is the real high-point golden era of the series. So... you're not alone. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2016 16:38:38 GMT -5
I actually prefer mid to late 80's X-Men and I know I'm probably alone in this. Nope! Me, too. At the start of the 80s I was reading and loving the series every month and totally agree that it is an all-time classic. That run up to #137 alone.... Wow. However... My favourite run by far is the 210-281 run that came out 1986-1991. I like the team members much, much better. Liked the art much, much better and was blown away by the storylines. That, to me, is the real high-point golden era of the series. So... you're not alone. I loved the addition of Dazzler, Longshot, Havok and Psylocke to the team myself. Even though many people don't like what Claremont did to Dazzler. I still love her. The X-men were pretty much dead to me after Claremont left. I tried to like them after he was gone but hated pretty much everything that I read until Whedon came along. |
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Nov 25, 2016 17:22:31 GMT -5
I came aboard around issue #114, and the first time I really felt like dropping the book was right after the Mutant Massacre. I had earlier found the arrival of J.R. Jr. a bit hard to accept, as the man wasn't yet quite the artist that either Cockrum or Smith had been before him, but he had quickly grown on me with his new stylized approach. Some stories from that era did feel like retreads (Mastermind again? The Hellfire club again?) but overall there was still some a sense of continuity (Wolverine's cancelled marriage notwithstanding). From that era I particularly enjoyed the Cyclops/Madelyne story arc, showing real development instead of endless circular storytelling.
The Mutant Massacre and its big change in the roster was a gutsy move, but it caused the book to lose its sense of direction. I cared nothing at all for Psylocke or Dazzler to begin with, and the new characterization for Havok and Longshot made them uninteresting to me. Long-running subplots were abandoned, supporting characters were ignored, main characters acted in incomprehensible ways, the complex world of the X-Men was reduced to "superhero team fights menace of the month". And don't get me started on the insane idea of feigning one's death, even from friends and teammates, for the purpose of nothing at all. It sure didn't help the team's friends and relatives to be targeted by bad guys and mutant haters.
I kept reading, but apart from the first Genosha storyline it really felt like we were in the middle of a long parenthesis at the end of which the actual story of the X-Men would maybe resume.
It sort of did, but just like the latter issues of the Micronauts, the Jim Lee issues were an attempt to recreate the mag's most successful period. It was no longer original, no matter how well it was drawn.
So for me, the good run ends at #210 or thereabout.
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Post by urrutiap on Nov 25, 2016 17:59:37 GMT -5
The good old days of Wolverine and Mariko and up to 290 were and still are the best but I felt there was too much focus on Forge and Storm and their on and off relationship.
Jubilee from 244 to the 270ish issues she was funny
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Post by tingramretro on Nov 25, 2016 19:23:19 GMT -5
JR JR's art is more in sync with comtemporary fashion at that time, which was already androgynous and influenced by queer culture. I just love it. I have absoutely no idea what this even means. Was I missing something? |
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Post by tingramretro on Nov 25, 2016 19:26:59 GMT -5
Nope! Me, too. At the start of the 80s I was reading and loving the series every month and totally agree that it is an all-time classic. That run up to #137 alone.... Wow. However... My favourite run by far is the 210-281 run that came out 1986-1991. I like the team members much, much better. Liked the art much, much better and was blown away by the storylines. That, to me, is the real high-point golden era of the series. So... you're not alone. I loved the addition of Dazzler, Longshot, Havok and Psylocke to the team myself. Even though many people don't like what Claremont did to Dazzler. I still love her. The X-men were pretty much dead to me after Claremont left. I tried to like them after he was gone but hated pretty much everything that I read until Whedon came along. I don't give a damn what he did to Dazzler, but I and every Captai Britain fan I know hated what he did to Betsy Braddock (including, from my POV, inexplicably saddling her with the name Psylocke). |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2016 19:33:12 GMT -5
I loved the addition of Dazzler, Longshot, Havok and Psylocke to the team myself. Even though many people don't like what Claremont did to Dazzler. I still love her. The X-men were pretty much dead to me after Claremont left. I tried to like them after he was gone but hated pretty much everything that I read until Whedon came along. I don't give a damn what he did to Dazzler, but I and every Captai Britain fan I know hated what he did to Betsy Braddock (ncluding, from my POV, inexplicably saddling her with the name Psylocke). Yeah...I meant British Betsy Braddock who I did like. Typing Psylocke was a slip of the fingers so to speak as I knew her by that name growing up. I hated what he did to her too. |
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Nov 25, 2016 19:37:25 GMT -5
JR JR's art is more in sync with comtemporary fashion at that time, which was already androgynous and influenced by queer culture. I just love it. I have absoutely no idea what this even means. Was I missing something? J.R. Jr was paying a lot of attention to current fashions and was very much a fan of the 1980's nightlife. He loved bars and clubs and such and seemed to be quite aware of what was in and what wasn't. The way he dressed characters often reflected then-modern trends, which gave the X-Men a certain contemporary avant-garde look the likes of which Stan Lee, in the sixties, could only have dreamed. Yes, that sometimes meant mullets... but hey, mullets were cool at a certain point! |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2016 20:19:16 GMT -5
I guess I am another one of those X-Men readers who lost interest after #175. I tried to like the book when Romita JR started, but never liked his art style. I still remain traumatized from reading X-Men #175 when the art abruptly switched from Smith to Romita JR! I read an interview somewhere where Romita JR said he tried to imitate Smith's art style on #175 so it wouldn't be so noticeable to the readers, but looking back at it I see no real attempt to imitate Smith's style.
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