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Post by Hoosier X on Dec 29, 2016 17:39:38 GMT -5
I have always (and by "always," I mean "since the early 1980s") thought that the fans and critics who dismiss Daredevil before Frank Miller haven't actually read very much Daredevil that far back.
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Post by Randle-El on Dec 29, 2016 23:25:29 GMT -5
I don't know that I'd dismiss pre-Miller Daredevil, but there's no denying that Miller re-invented DD to such a degree, and with such "stickiness" that, had it happened in the modern era, it would have been considered a reboot. Nearly every single creator after Miller wrote stories that are in some form affected by his changes to the character -- Kingpin as DD's nemesis, the Hand, DD being an "urban ninja", Elektra or another femme fatale, tortured love interest, and so on. Even Mark Waid's recent run, which by most accounts was a fairly lighter take on DD that actually relied quite a bit on the the pre-Miller DD (Stilt-Man and Purple Man show up as villains), still in the end had Kingpin end up being the big bad, complete with a Hand ninja-like opponent for DD to take out.
Not saying that there aren't good things in pre-Miller DD, just that I think it's somewhat understandable why people might be inclined to dismiss it. If you grew up liking the post-Miller DD and that pretty much informs all you know about the character, the pre-Miller DD looks rather foreign to you. It's the same with pre-Claremont X-Men.
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Post by Hoosier X on Dec 30, 2016 0:07:17 GMT -5
First appearance of Bullseye:  Created by Marv Wolfman, Bob Brown ... and Klaus Janson. |
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Post by Hoosier X on Dec 30, 2016 0:09:22 GMT -5
Many fans forget that Miller's first Daredevils were written by Roger McKenzie.  |
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Post by Hoosier X on Dec 30, 2016 0:21:01 GMT -5
I don't know that I'd dismiss pre-Miller Daredevil, but there's no denying that Miller re-invented DD to such a degree, and with such "stickiness" that, had it happened in the modern era, it would have been considered a reboot. I was reading Daredevil when Miller started drawing it and when he started writing it as well. I started reading Daredevil with #126, as a matter of fact. (I think I made it all the way to #240 or so.) And I have no trouble denying that Miller's treatment of the character would be considered a reboot. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2016 0:36:37 GMT -5
The earliest D.D. issue I have and one of my favorites.   |
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,212 
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Post by Confessor on Dec 30, 2016 1:15:21 GMT -5
I voted Miller-Janson, for obvious reasons, and Bendis-Maleev because, even though I've only read the odd issue or two, I liked what I saw and someday plan to get that run.
Pity some of the pre-Miller stuff wasn't in the poll because, while I agree with Ozymandias that some of it is a real slog to read (the Mike Murdoch era anyone?), there were some cracking issues during those years too.
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Post by Ish Kabbible on Dec 30, 2016 1:15:37 GMT -5
The earliest D.D. issue I have and one of my favorites. The Wally Wood Daredevil run was a fantastic period, lasting I believe 6 issues. This particular issue is an all-time classic |
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Post by Ish Kabbible on Dec 30, 2016 1:18:55 GMT -5
Pity some of the pre-Miller stuff wasn't in the poll because, while I agree with Ozymandias that some of it is a real slog to read (the Mike Murdoch era anyone?), there were some cracking issues during those years too. That Chichester-McDaniel period was the pits, far worse than any that came before Miller |
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Post by Hoosier X on Dec 30, 2016 2:01:59 GMT -5
I voted Miller-Janson, for obvious reasons, and Bendis-Maleev because, even though I've only read the odd issue or two, I liked what I saw and someday plan to get that run. Pity some of the pre-Miller stuff wasn't in the poll because, while I agree with Ozymandias that some of it is a real slog to read (the Mike Murdoch era anyone?), there were some cracking issues during those years too. The Mike Murdock era is AWESOME! That two-parter with Dr. Doom is one of Doom's best appearances.  |
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Post by Hoosier X on Dec 30, 2016 2:17:05 GMT -5
If we're going to start talking about the bad issues for Daredevil, let's at least cite the ... we'll say "tepid" ... the tepid issues of 1969, 1970 and 1971. Here's one:  I won't be defending these. But things really improved FAST when Matt moved to San Francisco and the Black Widow joined the cast. |
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Post by Ish Kabbible on Dec 30, 2016 2:28:32 GMT -5
I remember really liking the run of issues when he opposed The Jester in #s 42-46   |
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Post by Hoosier X on Dec 30, 2016 2:51:12 GMT -5
I remember really liking the run of issues when he opposed The Jester in #s 42-46 They were among the first back issues I ever bought. I think I got them for a buck each in 1975 and 1976. |
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Post by berkley on Dec 30, 2016 3:16:34 GMT -5
I remember really liking the run of issues when he opposed The Jester in #s 42-46 They were among the first back issues I ever bought. I think I got them for a buck each in 1975 and 1976. One of those was probably the first Daredevil issue I ever read when it first came out. I think it was #44 but I can't say for sure. The next thing I remember, some time after, is the DD/Ka-Zar story, which I must have seen in a reprint as I would have been too young to read it when it first came out. One thing I wish Miller had kept from the old version is the visual device - I assume stared by Wally Wood - of making DD's costume black with red highlights instead of the more obvious red with black shading. |
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,212
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Post by Confessor on Dec 30, 2016 4:21:55 GMT -5
I voted Miller-Janson, for obvious reasons, and Bendis-Maleev because, even though I've only read the odd issue or two, I liked what I saw and someday plan to get that run. Pity some of the pre-Miller stuff wasn't in the poll because, while I agree with Ozymandias that some of it is a real slog to read (the Mike Murdoch era anyone?), there were some cracking issues during those years too. The Mike Murdock era is AWESOME! Hmmm...this is obviously some new usage of the word awesome that means "interminably boring and woefully ill-conceived".  The earliest Wally Wood Daredevil stories were great and I remember enjoying the hell out of issues #16-19, which featured the Masked Marauder. His return in issues #22-23 was also really enjoyable. In fact, those Masked Marauder stories were so good, they inspired this song by acid rockers Country Joe & the Fish... |
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