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Post by The Cheat on Jun 17, 2017 15:06:58 GMT -5
Enjoying it so far. Definitely one of the better events of recent years.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jun 17, 2017 15:08:20 GMT -5
But this is not the same situation as those other examples, it's effectively an alternate reality that's been created. As far as I'm concerned it's basically Captain America-Does-Age-of-Apocalypse, and AOA didn't have any long term effect on people's perception of the X-Men... Well, Hank McCoy never really recovered from AoA, so that's not the best example. Also, it's not really an alternative universe, it's just an alternate Cap (if you look atit that way) so it's totally different.. he's effecting things in the real Marvel Universe. I suppose the end could be one of those magic 'put everything back and forget it all happened' types, but even so, WE will still remember it. I can see where you're coming from, though. |
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Post by tingramretro on Jun 17, 2017 15:39:15 GMT -5
But this is not the same situation as those other examples, it's effectively an alternate reality that's been created. As far as I'm concerned it's basically Captain America-Does-Age-of-Apocalypse, and AOA didn't have any long term effect on people's perception of the X-Men... Well, Hank McCoy never really recovered from AoA, so that's not the best example. Also, it's not really an alternative universe, it's just an alternate Cap (if you look atit that way) so it's totally different.. he's effecting things in the real Marvel Universe. I suppose the end could be one of those magic 'put everything back and forget it all happened' types, but even so, WE will still remember it. I can see where you're coming from, though. In what way did Hank McCoy never recover from AOA? |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jun 18, 2017 7:29:58 GMT -5
They character has been crap since... multiple strange 'mutations' to change his look for the sake of change, and he's just not the same guy.... he's really dark now, and the in universe explanation seems to be because he saw he could be evil, so it made him more serious/grumpy in trying to prevent it.
Then there's the constant mucking with time/space that they do over there now, which is really annoying. Not all of that is AoA's fault, certainly, but that's where it started.
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Post by Icctrombone on Jun 18, 2017 8:25:18 GMT -5
I'm caught up on this event and feel it's so-so. Some of the artwork isn't really to my taste but the story does have a few interesting elements. I felt the weakest issue so far was #2 but the surprise reveal at the end made me decide to keep reading. The story itself is the culmination of the Captain America: Steve Rogers title for those of us reading that. There's also a tie-in to a revelation that has to do with Miles Morales and Cap that we got a peak of during Civil War II. So while I'm curious what's going to happen the actual execution in some parts has for me been underwhelming. That being said I liked issue #3 and there's an interesting scene featuring Ultron that I enjoyed.Why don't you let us know what the reveal is and other spoilers?   |
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Post by Jesse on Jun 18, 2017 10:31:31 GMT -5
Why don't you let us know what the reveal is and other spoilers? At the end of issue #2 the reveal is that {Secret Empire #2 Spoiler: Click to show}there is another Steve Rogers wondering around in the woods with a beard! The Ultron scene involves {Secret Empire #3 Spoiler: Click to show}the current version of Ultron who is wearing Hank Pym's face (and may or may not actually be merged with Hank Pym) capturing two teams of Avengers, one led by Hydra Cap the other our heroes and making them sit down to a sort of dysfunctional family meal. Scott Antman gives Ultron Hank a talk about how he always looked up to Pym and what would Janet want which makes Ultron turn over the cosmic cube shard to our heroes and lets them go. |
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Post by The Captain on Jun 18, 2017 17:02:37 GMT -5
I'm probably going to shock some people here, but I've been reading the core mini-series and I don't totally hate it. Nick Spencer is still, IMO, a crap writer, but the story itself hasn't been horrible, although I am not much of a fan of the artwork.
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Post by String on Jun 18, 2017 17:57:33 GMT -5
Well, that's one problem I have with this event, it's origin. I've read different versions or theories on what Kubik did that altered history or reality. The history that Cap knew is now 'false' and this Hydra version of history is 'true' or vice versa or something. It seems convoluted to me and gives me a headache. Then, there's the theory about Ultimate Cap and his possible appearance here. Then there's the whole underlying assumption that this is some form of meta-commentary on the current political climate which I'm not sure about. I've read some articles that suggest that some fans and certain retailers are ready for this event to be over with. I'm not sure how accurate that may be, for me though, I'm just not interested in reading it. After the long build-up of Steve being aged, stepping down and handing the reigns over to Sam, how Hickman utilized him near the end of his Avengers opus, I was ready and willing to give Steve another try when he became young again and instead got' Hail Hydra!'. It just drained any interest I had for it seemed to be a shock moment that's lead to this event that appears to be divisive in certain ways among readers and retailers. So you are basically basing yourjudgement of the storyline on fan theories and rumours, which is pretty much what I was complaining about people doing earlier. The only way to fairly judge a story is to read it and let it speak for itself. 1) Nowhere in my response did I issue any form of judgement such as 'I HATE this event because it's so STUPID! The real Cap would NEVER do THIS!' I merely stated some of the reactions I've seen based on articles I've read and other forums I visit. If anything, I'm rendering judgement on those reactions. 2) Yes, I agree, the only way to glean real value is to read the story/event yourself. However, I've stated my reasons for why I'm not interested in reading this event. The big hook line was 'Hail Hydra!' and I didn't bite. That doesn't undermine or diminish the quality of the event that others may find within it though. 3) Most of the problems I listed are negative but I've also seen positive reviews elsewhere too, in fact, I know a group of fans who are loving this event and the ethical and moral questioning it's been raising (supposedly). So it isn't as if I'm just harping on the negative to fuel some ill-considered 'judgement'. |
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Post by tingramretro on Jun 19, 2017 2:52:13 GMT -5
Fair enough, sorry for misreading you.
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Post by String on Jun 20, 2017 18:13:40 GMT -5
Fair enough, sorry for misreading you. No worries. Though it looks like I'm about to read up on Secret Empire regardless as here comes all the tie-in issues. |
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Post by tingramretro on Jun 21, 2017 3:04:33 GMT -5
Fair enough, sorry for misreading you. No worries. Though it looks like I'm about to read up on Secret Empire regardless as here comes all the tie-in issues. As crossover events go, it's not really looking that major, TBH. Not compared to stuff like The Infinity Gauntlet, anyway. |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jun 21, 2017 9:25:59 GMT -5
Fair enough, sorry for misreading you. No worries. Though it looks like I'm about to read up on Secret Empire regardless as here comes all the tie-in issues. I've found for the last couple events you can generally have just a passing knowledge of what's going on to read the tie ins if they come to a book you read regularly. Granted, sometimes there's a tie in that is 100% about the event and puts the regular story on hold (as it did with Iron Man and Ms. Marvel for Civil War II), but more often its a smallish tie in that can be figured out or ignored without too much trouble. |
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bor
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Post by bor on Jun 21, 2017 15:03:00 GMT -5
I have enjoyed it so far. Its a pretty entertaining story and I am curious to,see how it turns out. If this keeps going like it is now this might just be the first real event series I have really liked in a couple of years. There has been a few I have thought were okay and worth reading but not really anything I really really liked for years.
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Post by String on Jun 21, 2017 18:33:26 GMT -5
No worries. Though it looks like I'm about to read up on Secret Empire regardless as here comes all the tie-in issues. I've found for the last couple events you can generally have just a passing knowledge of what's going on to read the tie ins if they come to a book you read regularly. Granted, sometimes there's a tie in that is 100% about the event and puts the regular story on hold (as it did with Iron Man and Ms. Marvel for Civil War II), but more often its a smallish tie in that can be figured out or ignored without too much trouble. Civil War II derailed Iron Man and it hasn't recovered since. I do like Riri but again, I want to see how another writer would handle her other than Bendis because right now, the book is a chore to read honestly. As for this, I know the tie-ins are coming up for the main X-titles, Blue and Gold. Plus Avengers, possibly ASM as well. I'm not sure about DD though. The biggest factor is how the creators respond to this intrusion. Talented writers can mold an event around to their ongoing story lines and thus use the event effectively to maintain their own momentum. A veteran like Waid on Avengers, his Civil War II tie-in issues were very well done so I'm not worried about his part. Ditto for Slott if it comes to ASM. I think Cullen Bunn can handle it well on X-Blue which just leaves Guggenheim on X-Gold as questionable. We'll see either way. |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jun 22, 2017 7:10:44 GMT -5
Yeah, I agree about Iron Man.. so far Bendis is essentially doing an origin story over and over again... I suspect something weird with the Tony Stark AI during or at the end of the event he's been waiting for.. or maybe he has no idea what to do with Riri past 'hey, cool new Iron Girl'
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