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Post by wildfire2099 on Jun 15, 2017 16:31:49 GMT -5
Anyone following it? I got the FCBD prequel.. it shows evil Cap holding Mjolnir.... yeah. I guess Spencer just wanted one more FU for those of us that can't picture evil Captain America. Is it as bad as it seems? Am I being too biased on that one item and missing the rare good event?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2017 16:34:32 GMT -5
Anyone following it? I got the FCBD prequel.. it shows evil Cap holding Mjolnir.... yeah. I guess Spencer just wanted one more FU for those of us that can't picture evil Captain America. Is it as bad as it seems? Am I being too biased on that one item and missing the rare good event? I am not reading it. The only Marvel titles I currently read are ASM: Renew Your Vows & Daredevil.
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Post by hondobrode on Jun 15, 2017 22:02:28 GMT -5
Not currently reading any Marvel. From what I understand, SE is not doing well.
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Post by tingramretro on Jun 16, 2017 2:03:02 GMT -5
I've actually been quite enjoying it. I think it has received a lot of negative press from people who aren't actually reading it and are taking the central premise, that Cap has been a Hydra agent all along, at face value, unfortunately. As it is, I am finding it a solid, entertaining story that's pretty obviously going to end with a long awaited return to the former status quo, before Steve Rogers was replaced by Falcap. Or at least, that's what I'm hoping.
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Post by hondobrode on Jun 16, 2017 2:59:57 GMT -5
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jun 16, 2017 7:44:43 GMT -5
I've actually been quite enjoying it. I think it has received a lot of negative press from people who aren't actually reading it and are taking the central premise, that Cap has been a Hydra agent all along, at face value, unfortunately. As it is, I am finding it a solid, entertaining story that's pretty obviously going to end with a long awaited return to the former status quo, before Steve Rogers was replaced by Falcap. Or at least, that's what I'm hoping. I thought the preview was terrible.. muddy, unclear art, and what there was of a plot didn't make alot of sense.. It had just about every superhero in the MU in Washington fighting Hydra(well, not the X-Men, but everyone else), but just regular guys, and winning but not as easily as that maybe good guys should have. Then Cap arrives, and literally defeats everyone... including capturing one of Thor's hammers (Which shouldn't happen, since even if HE thinks he's not evil, the hammer surely should). Much like Secret Wars and Civil War II, when the event is based on a crappy premise, it generally peters out and leaves one wanting at the end. They're crazy if they think they can go back to the status quo after this and have people believe it, it didn't work with Iron Man (hence Riri) and it won't work with Cap. |
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Post by tingramretro on Jun 16, 2017 8:56:35 GMT -5
I've actually been quite enjoying it. I think it has received a lot of negative press from people who aren't actually reading it and are taking the central premise, that Cap has been a Hydra agent all along, at face value, unfortunately. As it is, I am finding it a solid, entertaining story that's pretty obviously going to end with a long awaited return to the former status quo, before Steve Rogers was replaced by Falcap. Or at least, that's what I'm hoping. I thought the preview was terrible.. muddy, unclear art, and what there was of a plot didn't make alot of sense.. It had just about every superhero in the MU in Washington fighting Hydra(well, not the X-Men, but everyone else), but just regular guys, and winning but not as easily as that maybe good guys should have. Then Cap arrives, and literally defeats everyone... including capturing one of Thor's hammers (Which shouldn't happen, since even if HE thinks he's not evil, the hammer surely should). Much like Secret Wars and Civil War II, when the event is based on a crappy premise, it generally peters out and leaves one wanting at the end. They're crazy if they think they can go back to the status quo after this and have people believe it, it didn't work with Iron Man (hence Riri) and it won't work with Cap. Why? The whole central premise is that Cap is evil because history has been altered. Once history is restored, Cap would logically never have been evil! |
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Post by String on Jun 16, 2017 17:48:55 GMT -5
I thought the preview was terrible.. muddy, unclear art, and what there was of a plot didn't make alot of sense.. It had just about every superhero in the MU in Washington fighting Hydra(well, not the X-Men, but everyone else), but just regular guys, and winning but not as easily as that maybe good guys should have. Then Cap arrives, and literally defeats everyone... including capturing one of Thor's hammers (Which shouldn't happen, since even if HE thinks he's not evil, the hammer surely should). Much like Secret Wars and Civil War II, when the event is based on a crappy premise, it generally peters out and leaves one wanting at the end. They're crazy if they think they can go back to the status quo after this and have people believe it, it didn't work with Iron Man (hence Riri) and it won't work with Cap. Why? The whole central premise is that Cap is evil because history has been altered. Once history is restored, Cap would logically never have been evil! Well, that's one problem I have with this event, it's origin. I've read different versions or theories on what Kubik did that altered history or reality. The history that Cap knew is now 'false' and this Hydra version of history is 'true' or vice versa or something. It seems convoluted to me and gives me a headache. Then, there's the theory about Ultimate Cap and his possible appearance here. Then there's the whole underlying assumption that this is some form of meta-commentary on the current political climate which I'm not sure about. I've read some articles that suggest that some fans and certain retailers are ready for this event to be over with. I'm not sure how accurate that may be, for me though, I'm just not interested in reading it. After the long build-up of Steve being aged, stepping down and handing the reigns over to Sam, how Hickman utilized him near the end of his Avengers opus, I was ready and willing to give Steve another try when he became young again and instead got' Hail Hydra!'. It just drained any interest I had for it seemed to be a shock moment that's lead to this event that appears to be divisive in certain ways among readers and retailers. |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jun 16, 2017 19:07:11 GMT -5
Why? The whole central premise is that Cap is evil because history has been altered. Once history is restored, Cap would logically never have been evil! Because it still happened. We know he was evil for a while... even if the comic says it didn't happen, or they just pretend it didn't happen (Like they did with the Crossing for Tony Stark, and, more recently, with Superior Iron Man), so it makes alot of things ring false. It also makes one jump at shadows.. any time the character says something even a little off, you get a 'here we go again' sort of feeling. It's bad... and I suspect it'll be even worse for Cap, whose whole purpose is to be the character that can't go bad. Now that they've done it, they can never undo it.. never time he gives one of those Cap speeches, it'll always be 'yeah, but what about that time...' in my head, even if the in universe characters don't feel that way. |
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Post by Warmonger on Jun 16, 2017 19:16:32 GMT -5
Just don't care for the concept
Not only did they turn Cap into a nazi Hydra agent, but evidently they've done the same thing with Castle now as well.
Probably the two guys who would be the least likely to join Hydra.
Though I certainly get why Frank would take Cap's side, all things considered. Steve has always been Frank's hero and he essentially thinks that he can do no wrong.
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jun 16, 2017 19:32:46 GMT -5
I thought it would have been interesting if they kept him old... he could have essentially replaced Fury.. a Steve Rogers-led SHIELD would have been a fertile source of stories, IMO.
Reminds me back in the day when they briefly made Tony Stark the Secretary of Defense... lots of cool stories were left on the table there, too.
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Post by lobsterjohnson on Jun 16, 2017 20:24:38 GMT -5
Just don't care for the concept Not only did they turn Cap into a nazi Hydra agent, but evidently they've done the same thing with Castle now as well. Probably the two guys who would be the least likely to join Hydra. Though I certainly get why Frank would take Cap's side, all things considered. Steve has always been Frank's hero and he essentially thinks that he can do no wrong. I haven't read Secret Empire, but I'm guessing the Punisher is trying to infiltrate Hydra as a double agent. It seems unlikely to me that he would join Hydra in the comics right before his show is released. Maybe I'm wrong though. |
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Post by tingramretro on Jun 17, 2017 0:32:23 GMT -5
Why? The whole central premise is that Cap is evil because history has been altered. Once history is restored, Cap would logically never have been evil! Because it still happened. We know he was evil for a while... even if the comic says it didn't happen, or they just pretend it didn't happen (Like they did with the Crossing for Tony Stark, and, more recently, with Superior Iron Man), so it makes alot of things ring false. It also makes one jump at shadows.. any time the character says something even a little off, you get a 'here we go again' sort of feeling. It's bad... and I suspect it'll be even worse for Cap, whose whole purpose is to be the character that can't go bad. Now that they've done it, they can never undo it.. never time he gives one of those Cap speeches, it'll always be 'yeah, but what about that time...' in my head, even if the in universe characters don't feel that way. But this is not the same situation as those other examples, it's effectively an alternate reality that's been created. As far as I'm concerned it's basically Captain America-Does-Age-of-Apocalypse, and AOA didn't have any long term effect on people's perception of the X-Men... |
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Post by tingramretro on Jun 17, 2017 0:35:53 GMT -5
Why? The whole central premise is that Cap is evil because history has been altered. Once history is restored, Cap would logically never have been evil! Well, that's one problem I have with this event, it's origin. I've read different versions or theories on what Kubik did that altered history or reality. The history that Cap knew is now 'false' and this Hydra version of history is 'true' or vice versa or something. It seems convoluted to me and gives me a headache. Then, there's the theory about Ultimate Cap and his possible appearance here. Then there's the whole underlying assumption that this is some form of meta-commentary on the current political climate which I'm not sure about. I've read some articles that suggest that some fans and certain retailers are ready for this event to be over with. I'm not sure how accurate that may be, for me though, I'm just not interested in reading it. After the long build-up of Steve being aged, stepping down and handing the reigns over to Sam, how Hickman utilized him near the end of his Avengers opus, I was ready and willing to give Steve another try when he became young again and instead got' Hail Hydra!'. It just drained any interest I had for it seemed to be a shock moment that's lead to this event that appears to be divisive in certain ways among readers and retailers. So you are basically basing yourjudgement of the storyline on fan theories and rumours, which is pretty much what I was complaining about people doing earlier. The only way to fairly judge a story is to read it and let it speak for itself. |
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Post by Jesse on Jun 17, 2017 14:48:36 GMT -5
I'm caught up on this event and feel it's so-so. Some of the artwork isn't really to my taste but the story does have a few interesting elements. I felt the weakest issue so far was #2 but the surprise reveal at the end made me decide to keep reading. The story itself is the culmination of the Captain America: Steve Rogers title for those of us reading that. There's also a tie-in to a revelation that has to do with Miles Morales and Cap that we got a peak of during Civil War II. So while I'm curious what's going to happen the actual execution in some parts has for me been underwhelming. That being said I liked issue #3 and there's an interesting scene featuring Ultron that I enjoyed.
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