|
Post by codystarbuck on Aug 23, 2017 21:40:33 GMT -5
And so as not to end on a melancholy note...
Narns and Noble cracks me up every time (after working there for 20 years). That and the line about going out with girls!
|
|
|
Post by codystarbuck on Aug 23, 2017 22:03:34 GMT -5
Oh, yeah, the other two movies. A Call to Arms features Sheridan and the Technomage Galen, as well as a thief named Dureena Nafeel. Galen brings everyone together with news that the Drakh are testing weapons, including a Shadow planet killer. using the new Destroyer-class ships, the Excalibur and the Victory, they pursue the Drakh. The Drakh attack Earth and a large battle ensues. The Drakh release a plague into the atmosphere. Earth is quarantined. The mission for the Excalibur, now, is to find a cure. This one is pretty decent, with a few weak scenes. The ending is exciting and it sets up Crusade well. The other is River of Souls, with more rogue Soul Hunters. Really, there is only one thing worth seeing in it... Alas, it is only a VR simulation.
|
|
|
Post by rom on Sept 19, 2017 14:43:41 GMT -5
OK, I just recently finished watching Season 1 of Babylon 5 - this is my first time ever seeing this show. And, I am extremely impressed by this series! Amazing!! Very intelligent, well-written, & well-acted sci-fi show set in a fully realized futuristic universe with detailed histories & interesting back-stories for many of the characters, etc. The prosthetics/make-up for the aliens are excellent, and the exterior space CGI effects are nice - they are '90's-era video-game-ish, and that's not a criticism. I find this show far superior to most other sci-fi TV shows, including most of the incarnations of Star Trek I've seen & which the show is unfairly compared to. It was much better than ST: Deep Space Nine - hands down. In fact, I would have to say that, just based on this first season, this series is probably one of my top ten TV shows of all time - and that's saying a lot, since I've seen A LOT of TV shows over the years. And, just based on this 1st season, I can honestly say that there were 0 weak or sub-par episodes. All of them were strong & well-done. It's rare that this happens, especially with sci-fi series. Some comments on the first season: -All of the actors have great chemistry together; you can really believe that they're friends & have a lot of respect for each other - especially Ivanova/Captain Sinclar/Garbaldi. -The show boldly addresses a lot of social issues that continue to be important today, all in a sci-fi setting, i.e.: Parents who don't want to medically treat their dying/sick children because of their religious beliefs; the rights of workers to earn a living wage & operate under safe conditions; appropriate punishment(s) for dangerous criminals; alcoholism; post traumatic stress disorder (PTSD); etc. -B5 features two of the most gorgeous, stunning actresses I've ever seen in film or TV, i.e. Claudia Christian as Ivanova & Andrea Thompson as Talia Winters. CC was especially impressive in her portrayal as Ivanova; tough/no-nonsense & also very feminine. And, AT was incredible - gorgeous, sultry, with an amazing voice. Also, I liked how neither woman ever took any crap from anyone -The episode involving Ivanova mourning the death of her father was extremely touching/moving. It was also interesting to see the character being emotionally vulnerable here, given that we didn't see her express much emotion (other than anger - LOL) in other episodes. - Londo Mollari is great comic relief on the show, but is definitely not a clown or fool. I like how he is always pretending to be friends with the other characters, but it's soon obvious that - in most cases - he only want their "friendship" in order to get something from them - which typically involves having them inadvertently buying his drinks/paying for his food, trying to get Captain Sinclair to do special favors for him, etc. What an obvious scam-artist -The sub-plot involving Captain Sinclair having been tortured/brain-washed by the Minbari years before is creepy & disturbing. Based on what I read, it sounds like this will be revisited in later seasons. -Interesting that some of the guest stars on the show include Walter Koenig (Chekov on ST: TOS) and Bill Mumy (from the original Lost in Space series) as Lenier; their inclusion was a nice homage to these older, well-known sci-fi franchises. -Going along with the above, being a big fan of TV/movies, it's cool to see this show has so many recognizable guest stars, i.e. David Warner, Mary Woronov (who I wasn't aware played an alien character until reading this thread; I'm a huge fan of the '80's films Eating Raoul & Night of the Comet, and haven't seen Woronov in much else), and many others. Also, in many cases, I recognize an actor/actress on the show, but can't quite place their name or where I've seen them before... -It's sad that the final episode (22) of S01 was the final episode for Michael O'Hare (Commander Sinclar), who had to leave the show due to health issues. I haven't seen the later seasons, but I can't see Bruce B. playing the role of Commander as well. That being said, I will reserve judgement until I actually see the remaining seasons. Note that I'm not reading too much of this thread (due to the review(s) of the later seasons seasons, and I don't want to read too many spoilers) - but I will definitely revisit this once I finish the series. In closing, I wanted to thank the OP for starting this thread & to all of the others who have kept this going. Again, great show!
|
|
|
Post by wildfire2099 on Sept 19, 2017 16:53:12 GMT -5
I thought that about changing leads after season 1, too, but it totally all works. Also, Sinclair does pop in now and again as the show continues I agree this is one of the best sci-fi shows ever... the story is a very cohesive whole, which is rare. People tell me DS9 is better eventually, but I've never been able to get through enough of the meh episodes to get to that eventually.
|
|
|
Post by codystarbuck on Sept 19, 2017 22:20:29 GMT -5
Bruce Boxleitner's John Sheridan is a different character, which is why the change works. he isn't trying to be Sinclair. He is the station commander; but, he has his own way of doing things. Sinclair was more spiritual (studied under Jesuits, meditates) and has a love of Tennyson and his Idylls of the King. He is a quieter leader, one who commands respect by calmly handling things. When he gets angry, it means something. Sheridan was more direct, more of a classic military type; but, a good leader and he had a spiritual side, though more in an openness to new ideas. He's a bit more in your face, which worked well, as the later chapters require more direct action and Boxleitner was an old hand at that kind of thing.
Michael O'Hare recorded scenes for the second season, so he will pop up, and then closed out his character's arc in the third. He isn't gone for good.
To me, Babylon 5 is probably the best, most complete sci-fo series on tv and one of the best shows featured on television. I love original Trek; but, it was episodic, occasionally contradictory, and sometimes goofy. There was no plan for the 5 year mission. Some episodes are tremendous, some good, some okay, and some just bad. It set a high standard, to be sure. Next Gen had a better budget and visuals, and some of the acting (such as Patrick Stewart) was well above the level of much of the original series. However, it was a little too PC and utopian, even compared to the original. It really didn't tackle social issues well, often resorting to overly dramatic metaphor that kind of beat you over the head. not all of it, certainly. It also had a tendency to resort to technobabble to save the day. I was just never able to get into the later series, as I could never connect to the characters and didn't really enjoy the stories I watched.
B5 was conceived as a whole story, so things have meaning within it. innocuous scenes can have deep repercussions later on. Social problems that have existed for thousands of years have not been resolved in 300 years. meeting aliens didn't suddenly make us more enlightened; it gave us someone else to fear and distrust. Economic problems were not solved with a technological wand. People's emotions were still there. It was also willing to tackle religion in a balanced manner. It showed that various spiritual beliefs still existed and did so in relative harmony with others. It showed that alien contact made some expand their thinking of spiritual matters, absorbing ideas from other races. It showed different levels of technology and political power. It showed how fascism takes hold and how it can best be fought. It showed that choices have consequences, good and bad. It showed that heroes often come in very unlikely packages, as you will see with a few characters.
One of the brilliant aspects of the show was the amount of thought put into the potential pitfalls of series television. JMS felt that budget limitations were workable, if you had a plan. He knew actors would come and go, so he built in tradoors to remove them and insert new characters to take over their story role. By plotting how things would progress across season arcs, production could plan for more expensive episodes, balancing them with more contained ones. That way, the bang for the buck was on display where the story needed it. The used their limitations to be creative. The production and costume designers had come from the theatrical world and were used to having minimal budgets. They knew how to make costumes that fit the story, without having to create them from scratch. They made futuristic suits by taking contemporary clothing and tweaking them (removing lapels, changing collars, altering the cut, etc...). They used rich colors that photographed well. They gave design aesthetics to different races, so their mode of dress, spaceships, and design accents would be unique and serve as a visual signature for that group. Compare that to the more functional look of Trek, as well as repetitive use of decorative elements.
B5 also built their sets to be repurposed for other sets. The commander's office was also used for the council chamber, by moving some walls and redressing furniture. Since it is on a space station, there would be a similar set up for various quarters; but, they had each character inhabit their environment.
These touches add so much to things, making it come alive, despite financial limitations. They were smart in their casting and put good actors in interesting roles. Turhan Bey had come back to the US to accept an award and got cast in a few projects and B5 showed how good he was, and what a loss he was to Hollywood when he went back to Europe. Walter Koenig got to play against type and really crafted a great, complex villain.
There is so much to love in this series. As I point out, from time to time, it wasn't perfect. Some episodes hit a dull note, some performances are a bit below par. Some effects do not work well. However, it tends to be the minority.
I hope you enjoy the rest of the seasons as much as the first. Really, given that the first is a bit uneven and is finding its way (both in story and production) and spends a lot of time introducing things, you have seen the show at its weakest. From there, it grows and gets better and better.
|
|
|
Post by rberman on Sept 27, 2017 17:10:13 GMT -5
Great write-up! This series is a favorite around our house. I re-watched it with my junior high son this year. Its serialized approach was way ahead of the curve at the time, though it's not serialized enough for current styles. I loved the videos where Bill Mumy talked about what a tight ship Doug Netter ran. 110 episodes over five years, and never overtime once! Wow. That's pretty much unheard of in Hollywood, and it allowed B5 to put all of their meager budget onscreen.
What stands out for me in retrospect is the autobiographical nature of the show. So much of the story revolved around family strife, or lack thereof. The two leads JDS and JS are the closest "I-guy" stand-in for JMS himself, though obviously elements of everybody else reflect him as well.. The overall Shadow/Vorlon plot, while containing chaos vs order elements cribbed from earlier sci-fi literature, also makes the most sense as a family drama, with two parents who can't get along, fighting with each other by proxy through their children, until humanity "grows up" to adulthood and tells the parents to get lost. JMS has spoken about his own difficult upbringing, which it's hard not to read into the cosmic conflict. Kosh 1 and Kosh 2 show us what happens when a distant but loving father gets replaced by a more insidious stepdad. As I watched through the show with my own son, I was acutely aware of each time a character talked about his parents, which turned out to be pretty often.
The biggest challenges were of budgetary (of course) and plot flow, in an era when casual viewership was the norm. Just as older comic books waste a lot of space with repetitious exposition ("Use your adamantium claws, Wolverine! They can cut through anything!"), B5's serialized nature was interrupted regularly by three kinds of episodes:
1) Stand-alone Star Trek ones. Usually somebody comes to the station, and the whole story is about their interactions with the crew, and how it changes them. This was the norm for TV drama for decades; think of a typical episode of The Incredible Hulk or Fantasy Island, in which the regular cast were really just part of the setting for a self-contained drama about someone else. Almost without fail, these are the weakest episodes (Grail, Infection, Exogenesis, Grey 17, Believers, TKO, Late Delivery from Avalon, etc.). But a few of them rose above, most notably "Passing Through Gethsemane." Also, some of the best arc episodes like "Mind War" and "Signs and Portents" were of this same basic form about a guest star upsetting the balance of the station.
2) Interrogation episodes. Oh, how JMS loves his interrogation scenes and episodes. They're little two or three person plays, always in a dark, featureless room which is super cheap to set up and shoot. Sinclair strapped in a chair in a dark room ("And the Sky Full of Stars"). Delenn standing with eight or nine hooded Minbari (many episodes). Sheridan and a guy sitting at a table for an hour ("Intersections in Real Time"). Sheridan and Lorien in a cave ("Hour of the Wolf"). Sheridan and Ta'Lon ("All Alone in the Night"). G'Kar getting whipped ("Falling Toward Apotheosis"). Delenn and Jack the Ripper ("Comes the Inquisitor"). Delenn and Neroon ("Moments of Transition"). And so on.
3) Recap episodes. The two ISN episodes are most obvious ("And Now For a Word" and "The Illusion of Truth"), and "A View from the Gallery" fits as well. Basically, they consist of characters standing around, talking about Babylon 5's plot-in-progress and characters. The first segment of "The Deconstruction of Falling Stars" is a hilarious version of this as well, with an argument featuring three commentators basically representing different sorts of critics of the show.
|
|
|
Post by rom on Feb 5, 2018 0:22:57 GMT -5
Though it's taken me a while, I've gone through Seasons 2 & 3 and am now starting Season 4. I can unequivocally say that Babylon 5 is by far & hands-down the best sci-fi TV series of all time, and I don't say that lightly. Without going into a specific review of each season, here are some highlights: - Bruce B.'s Captain Sheridan is a completely different character than O'Hare's Captain Sinclair, but BB's approach works well here - and really fits the much more intense & dangerous situations that he comes across in Seasons 2-on. No offense to O'Hare, but I don't see Sinclair pulling this off as well Sheridan. - The series continues to present social issues that were/are relevant, all in a sci-fi setting - i.e.: rights for workers (the dock workers strike episode), physicians becoming addicted to drugs/stimulants due to stress & overwork etc. (re: the disturbing storyline involving Dr. Franklin), etc. - One of my favorite episodes focused on Dr. Franklin's reconciliation with his father. Very poignant & relatable. - Very realistic depiction of war & how it causes the opposing sides to dehumanize & demonize the enemy. - Another great episode was the one focused on Jack The Ripper titled "Comes the Inquisitor". The JTR crimes in 1880's London have always creeped me out, especially since they never caught the perpetrator & never found out who it was for that matter. So, this episode depicting JTR as someone who was kidnapped by the Vorlons (which explained why he stopped killing in 1888) was disturbing. - The special effects improve with each season; very impressive space battles, spaceships, set pieces, aliens, etc. - I was pleasantly surprised to see that Ivanova & Talia (the gorgeous blonde telepath) were obviously lovers for a brief period. Very bold to depict a lesbian relationship in a '90's sci-fi TV series, and may have been ground-breaking to some extent. Though I'm a straight guy, I have no problem seeing women together. Blue is the Warmest Color is one of my favorite films But, I digress.
|
|
|
Post by rom on Sept 20, 2018 21:51:31 GMT -5
Though it's taken me over a year since I started watching the show, I just recently finished Babylon 5. Wow. Incredible series that had a very organic ending. It was sad to see Captain Sinclair pass, but you also knew that this is what the series was leading up to for a while. I also felt that the story resolutions for the other characters worked as well. It was interesting to see everyone start to leave the station in the last several episodes to start the next cycle of their lives (Dr. Franklin, Garibaldi, etc.), so you could tell it was coming to an end. I felt that S05 was one of the best seasons, and one of the strongest stand-alone episodes was "Day of the Dead" - in which many of the characters temporarily "saw" a person from their past who had died; very moving episode, and touched on how it's hard to let go of a loved one after they pass - even years later. I will definitely have to re-watch the entire series in a couple of years. It was so well-done & nuanced, that I'm sure I missed some things the first time around. Excellent. I have also seen some (but not all) of the TV movies. I felt that River of Souls was one of the best, but that's just me. My favorite line(s) of dialogue occurs after Garibaldi, Zak, and Mayhew (the "owner of the "holographic pleasure palace") see an enticing hologram of Captain Lochley: Garibaldi: [upon seeing Captain Lochley's hologram] Okay, I'm as offended as you are. But I can see why a lot of guys would rent this particular image. Mayhew: Actually, it was mainly women. I also saw The Legend Of The Rangers; it was OK, and was obviously filmed as a "pilot" for a potential TV series that never materialized. I may start watching the short-lived TV series Crusade (1999) soon. This was apparently a pseudo-sequel to Babylon 5, starring (among others), Gary Cole - who is probably best known as Bill Lumbergh, the obnoxious & demanding boss in the iconic comedy Office Space (also 1999). What's interesting is that I never even heard of Crusade before this year. I never was aware of the show when it was on, even though I had heard of B5. I didn't have a TV at the time, and the show only ran for 13 episodes. I suspect it was never that popular.
|
|
|
Post by Duragizer on Sept 20, 2018 22:39:06 GMT -5
I may start watching the short-lived TV series Crusade (1999) soon. This was apparently a pseudo-sequel to Babylon 5, starring (among others), Gary Cole - who is probably best known as Bill Lumbergh, the obnoxious & demanding boss in the iconic comedy Office Space (also 1999). What's interesting is that I never even heard of Crusade before this year. I never was aware of the show when it was on, even though I had heard of B5. I didn't have a TV at the time, and the show only ran for 13 episodes. I suspect it was never that popular. IIRC, Crusade got screwed by TNT.
|
|
|
Post by wildfire2099 on Sept 21, 2018 19:19:11 GMT -5
Legend of the Rangers was definitely meant to be a revival/sequel... I don't know what the heck they were thinking with that one. The thing were they stand ina little room and jump around and punch things to fly their fighters is right up there with the dumbest sci-fi ideas ever.
|
|
|
Post by rberman on Sept 21, 2018 19:29:01 GMT -5
I may start watching the short-lived TV series Crusade (1999) soon. This was apparently a pseudo-sequel to Babylon 5, starring (among others), Gary Cole - who is probably best known as Bill Lumbergh, the obnoxious & demanding boss in the iconic comedy Office Space (also 1999). What's interesting is that I never even heard of Crusade before this year. I never was aware of the show when it was on, even though I had heard of B5. I didn't have a TV at the time, and the show only ran for 13 episodes. I suspect it was never that popular. IIRC, Crusade got screwed by TNT. It was slated for cancellation before it ever aired. TNT suits never saw B5 and did not understand JMS’ Shakespearean aspirations. They thought Crusade was going to be about fistfights and sexy space babes every week, so the creative team was immediately at loggerheads as soon as TNT started sending notes. The dozen episodes that exist are not great, but then again the first dozen episodes of B5 have most of the stinkers (Infection!) so who knows? Crusade might have been headed somewhere awesome. As with firefly, we will never know.
|
|
|
Post by Duragizer on Sept 21, 2018 21:55:31 GMT -5
IIRC, Crusade got screwed by TNT. It was slated for cancellation before it ever aired. TNT suits never saw B5 and did not understand JMS’ Shakespearean aspirations. They thought Crusade was going to be about fistfights and sexy space babes every week, so the creative team was immediately at loggerheads as soon as TNT started sending notes. The dozen episodes that exist are not great, but then again the first dozen episodes of B5 have most of the stinkers (Infection!) so who knows? Crusade might have been headed somewhere awesome. As with firefly, we will never know. On the bright side, at least it didn't become another Andromeda.
|
|
|
Post by rom on Oct 24, 2018 7:27:40 GMT -5
I recently saw the 1999 thirteen-episode series Crusade, which is connected to Babylon 5 to some extent. It takes place in the same universe, and does feature Captain Elizabeth Lochley in some episodes; Dr. Franklin is also in at least one episode. Chronologically, the show seems to take place not long after Sheridan/Delenn, Dr. Franklin, Garibaldi, and others leave Babylon 5 towards the end of the series, but long before the "flash forward" that showed Sheridan's ultimate fate - 20?! years later.
Crusade was mildly interesting, and followed a ship that was sent out on a mission to try to find a cure for a deadly virus that was devastating humanity on Earth. The show was OK, but seemed disjointed at times & the episodes I saw appeared to even be out of order (I watched this on DVD). I may have liked this better had it continued & had a more cohesive storyline. However, it's tough to judge something after only 13 episodes.
|
|
|
Post by Duragizer on Oct 31, 2018 15:49:04 GMT -5
Crusade was mildly interesting, and followed a ship that was sent out on a mission to try to find a cure for a deadly virus that was devastating humanity on Earth. The show was OK, but seemed disjointed at times & the episodes I saw appeared to even be out of order (I watched this on DVD). Yeah, the viewing order is all messed up. b5books.com/crusade-episode-viewing-order/
|
|
|
Post by rberman on Jul 13, 2020 8:18:12 GMT -5
I thought it would be fun/helpful to catalogue some of the geeky references in Babylon 5. Some of them have been previously discussed here. Tolkien looms large. Z'Ha'Dum = Khazad Dum, a.k.a. Moria. Sheridan's fall and rebirth like Gandalf's. Lorien is Tolkien's Elvish word for the land of dreams. Rangers of course. It's already been mentioned that the Gaim aliens get their name from Neil Gaiman and their helmet from Gaiman's character Morpheus the Sandman. But Straczynski obviously loved his Bronze Age Marvel too. Right there in X-Men #137 we've got the feather-headed Centauri diplomat who falls in love with a human leader. Delenn = Lilandra, except her race has been changed from Centauri to Minbari. Sheridan = Professor X. We have two warring races: One of leathery lizards, one of stoic warrior-priests with a fin on their head. Narns and Minbari. The "warring races" aspect was transferred to the Narn and the Centauri. The villainous Mr. Morden comes from Doom Patrol #86. In that one he drove a giant robot instead of being an emissary of chaos aliens. I'm told that E.E. Smith's "Lensman" novels provided the overarching plot about two ancient alien species, representing law and chaos, using younger races as proxies in their eternal war. The colored Lensmen also inspired the Silver/Bronze age Green Lantern corps, right? What else? I'm sure there's more. Not to mention elements of B5 that JMS incorporated into comic books like Rising Stars and Supreme Power.
|
|