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Post by wildfire2099 on Jul 5, 2017 9:48:46 GMT -5
See, for me the best Avengers stories are Busiek.. but if you're going to go back to the original series, it's Stern for sure. I just don't like Engelhart.. those are the only ones I don't own, because I'm just not interested in Mantis and Swordsman.
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Post by badwolf on Jul 5, 2017 11:40:47 GMT -5
See, for me the best Avengers stories are Busiek.. but if you're going to go back to the original series, it's Stern for sure. I just don't like Engelhart.. those are the only ones I don't own, because I'm just not interested in Mantis and Swordsman. Stern, Busiek and Michelinie for me. Don't like Engelhart either, especially the 80s stuff. |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jul 5, 2017 11:49:50 GMT -5
Just finished the Celestial Madonna story the other night. Damn, Swordsman. I wondered, but I didn't really think they would.
Without providing specifics and spoilers, does anything further get done with Mantis and the Prophecy during Englehart's run?
Tons of the expected nonsense in that story, but I love Kang, love the time paradox, and love the mysteries that kept us guessing until the close (who is the madonna, who is going to die?). Perfect story? No way. But it was a blast all the same, and would probably look even more mature/impressive within its historical context.
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Crimebuster
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Post by Crimebuster on Jul 5, 2017 12:13:59 GMT -5
Without providing specifics and spoilers, does anything further get done with Mantis and the Prophecy during Englehart's run? Not really, but don't worry, because Englehart would go on to drag Mantis with him to every title he ever did for the rest of his career, which is too bad for people like me who don't like her. I believe the follow up to the Celestial Madonna story is actually in the pages of Justice League of America #142, then her story continues in the 80's in Scorpio Rose from Eclipse, and then West Coast Avengers. From JLoA:  |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jul 5, 2017 12:15:43 GMT -5
I believe the follow up to the Celestial Madonna story is actually in the pages of Justice League of America #142 I truly thought you were joking at first. Wow. Gives me an idea for a thread... |
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Post by LovesGilKane on Jul 5, 2017 14:23:17 GMT -5
Without providing specifics and spoilers, does anything further get done with Mantis and the Prophecy during Englehart's run? Not really, but don't worry, because Englehart would go on to drag Mantis with him to every title he ever did for the rest of his career, which is too bad for people like me who don't like her. I believe the follow up to the Celestial Madonna story is actually in the pages of Justice League of America #142, then her story continues in the 80's in Scorpio Rose from Eclipse, and then West Coast Avengers. From JLoA: wow, APPLAUSE. this is 'all the president's men' level of connecting the dots. DUDE. reading this I give you a Coen Brother's Award. |
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Post by berkley on Jul 5, 2017 22:26:44 GMT -5
I wasn't buying comics for the first few years of the Englehart era so I missed most of the Mantis stuff at the time. But I would still leaf through an issue at the drugstore now and then and even from those brief glimpses the character always intrigued me. I remember seeing bits of the Avengers/Defenders war in this way and something about Mantis caught my imagination right away. The weirdness and contrived speech patterns and so on, all the stuff that puts so many people off seems to make her all the more interesting to me. I don't find it hokey or self-indulgent at all. Maybe I'm just in tune with Englehart's style, because I find pretty much all his Marvel work is really good..
Anyway, when I went back and read the whole Defenders/Avengers thing years and years later, I was already primed to look on the character favourably, and so it turned out: Mantis remains a favourite character to this day. I haven't seen any of the later appearances yet, whether in Englehart's Silver Surfer or his alternate version in the JLA, or the more recent Guardians stuff. I'm sceptical about the latter, just because the current versions of almost all these recurring characters isn't to my taste, from what I've seen, but I'll try to keep an open mind until I read it.
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Post by LovesGilKane on Jul 6, 2017 1:10:00 GMT -5
I wasn't buying comics for the first few years of the Englehart era so I missed most of the Mantis stuff at the time. But I would still leaf through an issue at the drugstore now and then and even from those brief glimpses the character always intrigued me. I remember seeing bits of the Avengers/Defenders war in this way and something about Mantis caught my imagination right away. The weirdness and contrived speech patterns and so on, all the stuff that puts so many people off seems to make her all the more interesting to me. I don't find it hokey or self-indulgent at all. Maybe I'm just in tune with Englehart's style, because I find pretty much all his Marvel work is really good.. Anyway, when I went back and read the whole Defenders/Avengers thing years and years later, I was already primed to look on the character favourably, and so it turned out: Mantis remains a favourite character to this day. I haven't seen any of the later appearances yet, whether in Englehart's Silver Surfer or his alternate version in the JLA, or the more recent Guardians stuff. I'm sceptical about the latter, just because the current versions of almost all these recurring characters isn't to my taste, from what I've seen, but I'll try to keep an open mind until I read it. d'accord. her speech patterns made her more special to me. i just wish she'd been drawn by steranko. |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jul 6, 2017 16:43:20 GMT -5
Just finished up Kang War II. Just as fun and imaginative as the first one, if not moreso. I think the one aspect that really bugged me though was Iron Man's "death". The cover to #132 promises "One of the Avengers depicted on this cover will perish in this very issue! But...WHICH ONE?" and then we see Iron Man die. He's coming back, I immediately realize. I'm only left wondering how.
Then the next issue, GS Avengers #3, has a living Iron Man on the cover, the Vision now stating "Thor! Iron Man! it is fated that in this nameless place, ONE OF US THREE SHALL DIE!" And I'm left thoroughly confused because we already saw Iron Man "die" last issue, so what's going on? Sure enough, Iron Man is still dead in this story...until the end. And then, after we were told literally every circuit in his armor had been fused (including the part that keeps him alive), and after both Thor and Mantis studied him carefully and concluded beyond a doubt that he was dead, Immortus (who, for reasons we still don't understand, went from trying to kill the Avengers in his last appearance to striving to help them now) proclaims" ...you all exist not in regular time at this moment, but in Limbo--where the space between heartbeats, between breaths can be an instant or an hour -- as Immortus wills it...Then the Golden Avenger lives, Thor! What is more, only a second has passed for him since he was felled."
Yeah. That doesn't make any damn sense at all.
So two covers promising a death, two heroes proclaiming Iron Man dead, and now this lame explanation for his return? Really sullies what was otherwise an amazing tale.
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Post by Icctrombone on Jul 6, 2017 16:55:19 GMT -5
Just finished up Kang War II. Just as fun and imaginative as the first one, if not moreso. I think the one aspect that really bugged me though was Iron Man's "death". The cover to #132 promises "One of the Avengers depicted on this cover will perish in this very issue! But...WHICH ONE?" and then we see Iron Man die. He's coming back, I immediately realize. I'm only left wondering how. Then the next issue, GS Avengers #3, has a living Iron Man on the cover, the Vision now stating "Thor! Iron Man! it is fated that in this nameless place, ONE OF US THREE SHALL DIE!" And I'm left thoroughly confused because we already saw Iron Man "die" last issue, so what's going on? Sure enough, Iron Man is still dead in this story...until the end. And then, after we were told literally every circuit in his armor had been fused (including the part that keeps him alive), and after both Thor and Mantis studied him carefully and concluded beyond a doubt that he was dead, Immortus (who, for reasons we still don't understand, went from trying to kill the Avengers in his last appearance to striving to help them now) proclaims" .. .you all exist not in regular time at this moment, but in Limbo--where the space between heartbeats, between breaths can be an instant or an hour -- as Immortus wills it...Then the Golden Avenger lives, Thor! What is more, only a second has passed for him since he was felled."
Yeah. That doesn't make any damn sense at all. So two covers promising a death, two heroes proclaiming Iron Man dead, and now this lame explanation for his return? Really sullies what was otherwise an amazing tale. I didn't get up in arms over Immortus bringing Iron man back as the rules of Limbo were still subject to being revealed to the reader. Besides, How many people came back from a death with a throw away line like " oh, nobody saw the dead body, so he might have survived" ? |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jul 6, 2017 16:58:34 GMT -5
Just finished up Kang War II. Just as fun and imaginative as the first one, if not moreso. I think the one aspect that really bugged me though was Iron Man's "death". The cover to #132 promises "One of the Avengers depicted on this cover will perish in this very issue! But...WHICH ONE?" and then we see Iron Man die. He's coming back, I immediately realize. I'm only left wondering how. Then the next issue, GS Avengers #3, has a living Iron Man on the cover, the Vision now stating "Thor! Iron Man! it is fated that in this nameless place, ONE OF US THREE SHALL DIE!" And I'm left thoroughly confused because we already saw Iron Man "die" last issue, so what's going on? Sure enough, Iron Man is still dead in this story...until the end. And then, after we were told literally every circuit in his armor had been fused (including the part that keeps him alive), and after both Thor and Mantis studied him carefully and concluded beyond a doubt that he was dead, Immortus (who, for reasons we still don't understand, went from trying to kill the Avengers in his last appearance to striving to help them now) proclaims" .. .you all exist not in regular time at this moment, but in Limbo--where the space between heartbeats, between breaths can be an instant or an hour -- as Immortus wills it...Then the Golden Avenger lives, Thor! What is more, only a second has passed for him since he was felled."
Yeah. That doesn't make any damn sense at all. So two covers promising a death, two heroes proclaiming Iron Man dead, and now this lame explanation for his return? Really sullies what was otherwise an amazing tale. I didn't get up in arms over Immortus bringing Iron man back as the rules of Limbo were still subject to being revealed to the reader. Besides, How many people came back from a death with a throw away line like " oh, nobody saw the dead body, so he might have survived" ? Normally, I'd agree, except that Thomas was so explicit in how Iron Man had died and even gave us two witnesses to confirm it. Plus, two consecutive covers promised it. The whole thing just felt a lot more cheap than the usual convenient resurrection. Which is not to say I didn't still love Kang War II. This was just the harsh lingering after-taste following an otherwise delightful meal. |
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Post by Icctrombone on Jul 6, 2017 17:02:07 GMT -5
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jul 6, 2017 21:56:22 GMT -5
I wouldn't punish anyone by re-reading it or even touching it, but I THINK that was the point where they stated in the Crossing that the 'real' Tony Stark was substituted with one from an alternate universe that worked for Kang, or whatever.
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Post by dbutler69 on Jul 11, 2017 9:42:17 GMT -5
I wasn't buying comics for the first few years of the Englehart era so I missed most of the Mantis stuff at the time. But I would still leaf through an issue at the drugstore now and then and even from those brief glimpses the character always intrigued me. I remember seeing bits of the Avengers/Defenders war in this way and something about Mantis caught my imagination right away. The weirdness and contrived speech patterns and so on, all the stuff that puts so many people off seems to make her all the more interesting to me. I don't find it hokey or self-indulgent at all. Maybe I'm just in tune with Englehart's style, because I find pretty much all his Marvel work is really good.. Anyway, when I went back and read the whole Defenders/Avengers thing years and years later, I was already primed to look on the character favourably, and so it turned out: Mantis remains a favourite character to this day. I haven't seen any of the later appearances yet, whether in Englehart's Silver Surfer or his alternate version in the JLA, or the more recent Guardians stuff. I'm sceptical about the latter, just because the current versions of almost all these recurring characters isn't to my taste, from what I've seen, but I'll try to keep an open mind until I read it. I'm with you. I dig most of Englehart's stuff, and I was also fine with Mantis's speech patterns. I thought it was kinda cool...kinda. |
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shaxper
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Post by shaxper on Jul 16, 2017 1:22:30 GMT -5
Currently struggling with the Post-Celestial Madonna stories. G.S. Avengers #4 felt rushed and anti-climactic, but it was still full of imagination. Everything since has felt...blah. I have zero interest in seeing Hank Pym return, nor in watching Iron Man and Thor get on each other's nerves, I feel like the Vision/Scarlet Witch romance has been tapped of its dramatic potential at this point, and while Moon Dragon may yet make a compelling addition to the team, The Beast does not (and I say this as a loyal X-Men fan), yet, as of issue #141, he's the one getting all of the attention while Moon Dragon has been sorely underutilized. Really, the team just needs more fresh blood than this. Mantis and Swordsman provided that for a while, and Vision did so all on his own before that, but Beast is not the character to assume that mantle and dramatic responsibility next. We need a bigger roster change-up than this, but I think that's still a year away.
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