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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2017 21:26:05 GMT -5
^ Holy cross company referencing Batman! That is interesting. It was a pretty cool unofficial DC/Marvel crossover IMO. BTW you may like the 15 issue Freedom Fighters series that was out in the 70's. |
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Post by codystarbuck on Oct 13, 2017 21:31:01 GMT -5
It goes deeper than that. The Crusaders are the Quality Comics heroes, which DC acquired and Len Wein put together as the Freedom Fighters, in JLA #107-108. They lived on Earth-X, where the Nazis won WW2. With the help of the JLA and JSA, they free their world. The Freedom Fighters later got their own series, where they followed a villain, the Silver Ghost to Earth 1, where they were framed as criminals by him. As said, in Freedom Fighters #8-9, the FF face a group called the Crusaders. Their members are Americommando ((Captain America), Rusty (Bucky), Barracuda (Namor, Fireball (Torch) and Sparky (Toro). Americommando was the Silver Ghost in disguise. The rest were comic book convention goers who were transformed by the Silver Ghost. Their names were Roy, Len, Marv and Archie; as in, Roy Thomas, Len Wein, Marv Wolfman and Archie Goodwin.     Not only was this an unofficial crossover, it was a crossover involving the writers of some of these guys (though Bob Rozakis wrote the script for the FF issues). This template would be redone in the 80s, when the New Teen Titans faced the RECOMbatants, in Tales of the Teen Titans #48 and the DNAgents faced Project: Youngblood, in DNAgents #14.   A lot of your questions are answered next issue and some new ones get asked that will be answered in the issues that follow. A couple of the Crusaders will prove to have important parts in MU history. Personally, I enjoyed the Crusaders more than the Liberty Legion. Apart from Miss America and the Whizzer, the team was pretty devoid of character and wasn't much on the power front. The Crusaders had a bit more going for them, on the power front and they had a greater variety to their powers. Keep in mind, though, Roy is paying homage here. The Quality Comics heroes were very popular, long before DC got their hands on them. Black Condor featured some beautiful art by Lou Fine, including the best flying scenes in comics. Fine also handled art on The Ray. Phantom Lady was one of the most popular heroines in the 40s, largely due to a skimpy costume, though the really popular version was the one drawn by Matt Baker, at Fox Comics. Captain Wings is an homage to Black Condor but the name also came from a very popular Hillman comic feature, Captain Wings, about an aviation squadron leader (which borrowed heavily from Captain Midnight). Dyna-Mite is an homage to Doll Man, who had fantastic stories, drawn by Reed Crandall (among others) Doll Man was the first miniature hero and played with the size element well, setting the template for the Silver Age Atom. The Spirit of '76 is both an homage to Uncle Sam and the Fighting Yank (in costume), from Nedor. The Yank had several adventures drawn by the dynamic pairing of Jerry Robinson and Mort Meskin (who also did several issues of Nedor's The Black Terror. This is very much Roy's super-tribute to some of the heroes of the 40s. Kind of surprised he ever got around to a JSA-homage. Roy later got to handle the real characters, in a multi-part All-Star Squadron story, that dealt with how the Freedom Fighters were formed and ended up on Earth-X (before Crisis erased that). It also (briefly) makes use of some of the other Quality heroes, like the Red Bee, Neon the Unknown, Magnor, Miss America (Timely didn't have the only one) and the Red Torpedo.      |
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Post by pinkfloydsound17 on Oct 13, 2017 22:15:48 GMT -5
Having read the treasury of Superman Vs Wonder Woman, I must say I liked Baron Blitzkrieg. Maybe I will have to delve into some of this other stuff some day.
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Post by pinkfloydsound17 on Oct 13, 2017 22:18:52 GMT -5
^ Holy cross company referencing Batman! That is interesting. DC's Crusaders from Freedom Fighters #8 & 9:
See I am not a fan of the art here at all. They look so limp and uncharismatic. I find that a lot with DC stuff, that their artists did not draw their characters with a lot of expressions like Marvel did. Granted this is what, a final splash page in an issue? So perhaps it improves but they just look like poor knockoffs. |
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Post by codystarbuck on Oct 14, 2017 6:49:20 GMT -5
DC's Crusaders from Freedom Fighters #8 & 9:
See I am not a fan of the art here at all. They look so limp and uncharismatic. I find that a lot with DC stuff, that their artists did not draw their characters with a lot of expressions like Marvel did. Granted this is what, a final splash page in an issue? So perhaps it improves but they just look like poor knockoffs. The artist was Dick Ayers (inked by Jack Abel), who was better known for his Marvel work (and Magazine Enterprise's Ghost Rider and Avenger, before that). The difference is that Ayers was working from a full script, where panels were broken down by the writer, vs Marvel, where the artist pretty much laid out the story and the writer dialogued accordingly. Freedom Fighters suffered through some creative turmoil. It was launched by Gerry Conway and Martin Pasko, then Pasko wrote a few issues, then Rozakis took over for the rest of its short life. The art went from Ric Estrada to Ramona Fradon to Dick Ayers, with several different inkers working on it. Generally speaking, Ayers did a fine job on the series and this one panel hardly captures the entire story. Rich Buckler's cover to #8 was great and leaves you wishing he had done the series, as he was a bit more enthusiastic about it. |
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Post by tarkintino on Oct 16, 2017 21:59:18 GMT -5
Invaders #13 The CoverNow, not to throw any dislike on the Kirby covers, but Kane will always be a superior artist IMO. Kirby has a unique style that I definitely appreciate but Kane just has a very natural style that suits superhero books perfectly. Undoubtedly. Kane had the photographer's eye and a hyper energetic style that rarely misfired at Marvel or DC, unlike many artists of that era. That depends on which Golem art one refers to, as it can have sculpted "hair" resembling the style of whatever era its supposed to hail from. Other than that, its a dynamic cover and easily one of the top three in the history of The Invaders title. Jacob seems like Marvel's version of Billy Batson and several Hanna-Barbera characters of the late 60s: young man (or boy) with some magic conduit for becoming a super-being, rather than the moat famous legend as credited to the acts of Judah Loew ben Bezalel. Not really happening--not n a permanent sense during WW2, since his fate--lasting into the Silver Age--was covered in Sub-Mariner #14 (June, 1969)--  --where Namor initially believed he was dealing with the original Torch, until the big reveal that he was Toro. Dramatic Marie Severin/Frank Giacoia cover, by the way. Timeless. |
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Post by pinkfloydsound17 on Oct 22, 2017 21:51:41 GMT -5
Invaders #15 The CoverA decent battle cover here. The proportions on Tommy Lightnin' and Spitfire seems a bit off though. Plus, Spitfire had not part in the actual battle with the Crusaders in the story. The StoryThe story starts with the Invaders debating about whether or not they should let the Crusaders protect the King. All of a sudden we see this….WHERE IN THE WORLD IS SPITFIRE’S HEAD!?!?!?!?!?!  Anyways, Spitfire basically tells the Invaders the Crusaders are no difference than themselves. They already saved the King and should do so going forward, regardless of the fact they are mostly from the same country. She then snaps at Torch, who continues to disagree, saying he has not idea what it means to protect one’s country as he is an android. This angers him and he storms off. Spitifire feels bad about this but is pulled aside by her father who says he has something important to tell her. We switch scenes to a ship docked on the Thames river. The Crusaders are meeting here and they reveal how they know nothing about their powers. We learn that all of them were denied the ability to join the armed forces because of health or other issues (Captain Wings has a heart murmur for example). Suddenly, Alfie the cabbie shows up. He is apparently their secret officer and he reveals that he actually controls their abilities, using a belt device that he wears. He uses pictures from back when the Invaders were controlled by Red Skull and were destroying things on US property. Alfie is very shady and lets it slip that he works for the Admiralty (the navy)…or so the Crusaders think. Alfie leaves and stops nearby to make a call to someone. Apparently the grand plan was to have the Invaders bumped out of the way so this inexperienced team could protect the King. Unaware to the Crusaders, Alfie is a Nazi and they plan to murder the King the next day. Alfie says the Crusaders won’t be smart enough to catch onto their plan, which is why they are now guarding the King. Alfie is then startled by Dyna-mite, who has has snuck along with ol’ Alfie in his coat pocket. Dyna-mite threatens to tell everyone Alfie is a Nazi, but Alfie swats him into the water and takes off. Dyna-mite does climb out and grabs the mud flap of a passing truck. He appears at Lord Falsworth's door to tell the Invaders of Alfie's plan. The Invaders arrive in time and have a quick battle with the Crusaders, who try to fight back, believing the Invaders to be traitors. Namors gets hold of the explosive champagne bottle and when it explodes as he hurls it out to seas, the Crusaders realize they were wrong. Torch chases down Alfie as he tries to escape and actually murders Alfie!!!! He sets his car on fire and it crashes off a bridge into the water where it explodes! The Crusaders are told of Alife's plan and they appear to relinquish their costumes, since Alfie's control belt is presumably gone now that he is dead. The Invaders wonder if Dyna-Mite will return to his normal size but when the Invaders get back to Falsworth's mansion, they find Lord Falsworth, Spitfire and Dyna-Mite are gone and have left a message with their butler not to follow them...if they do, a death battle will occur! OpinionsThis story had a better resolution than I expected. I was very surprised that Alfie was just murdered at the end. I also like that there is further mystery added now that Lord Falsworth, Spitfire and Dyna-Mite have taken off somewhere. My guess? Something to do with getting Lord Falsworth back to his old walking self. I would not care to see the Crusaders again though...I found them to be nothing special and once again, too many to keep track off. But if Dyna-Mite's involvement leads to something greater, I may change my opinion a bit. At the very least, it has me intrigued to keep reading. Quote Of The IssueAnd speaking of that venerable Nazi-cum-cockney!"- the narrator dialogue as we see Alfie trying to flee once the Invaders show up. Great language there!
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Post by Prince Hal on Oct 23, 2017 10:22:06 GMT -5
Invaders #13The CoverNow, not to throw any dislike on the Kirby covers, but Kane will always be a superior artist IMO. Kirby has a unique style that I definitely appreciate but Kane just has a very natural style that suits superhero books perfectly. Undoubtedly. Kane had the photographer's eye and a hyper energetic style that rarely misfired at Marvel or DC, unlike many artists of that era. That depends on which Golem art one refers to, as it can have sculpted "hair" resembling the style of whatever era its supposed to hail from. Other than that, its a dynamic cover and easily one of the top three in the history of The Invaders title. I wonder if this was a Kirby layout? Looks too cluttered to have been a Kane original. Can't see him designing the cover this way. No sense of depth at all. Or, Roy might have just told Gil to work in every single element that we see there and this is what resulted. Why all of the figures and action are right in front of the viewer's face is beyond me. "I want the Golem smashing a wall into Half-Face, the Torch in a water tank, Namor in chains, a Nazi holding Spitfire hostage, and Cap ready to spring! Questions?" |
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Post by pinkfloydsound17 on Oct 23, 2017 21:36:54 GMT -5
^The background is a letdown. Imagine it was just cool science gadgetry. That would look great. The Christmas red and green also makes it looks silly.
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Post by Rob Allen on Oct 24, 2017 18:03:12 GMT -5
I think someone was trying to emulate the ultra-busy Golden Age covers of Alex Schomburg.
Whether Gil came up with this on his own or Roy asked for it, I have no idea.
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Post by tarkintino on Oct 26, 2017 20:12:52 GMT -5
I wonder if this was a Kirby layout? Looks too cluttered to have been a Kane original. Can't see him designing the cover this way. No sense of depth at all. Or, Roy might have just told Gil to work in every single element that we see there and this is what resulted. Why all of the figures and action are right in front of the viewer's face is beyond me. I would lean I the direction of Roy needing all relevant elements on the cover. While it is crowded, Kane's fluid style still provided the cover with energy that would have been near impossible with a number of other artists of the time. |
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Post by pinkfloydsound17 on Dec 8, 2017 20:02:13 GMT -5
Things are a little less busy and I promise ye noble followers of this thread a continued review by Sunday!
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Post by Phil Maurice on Dec 8, 2017 21:54:00 GMT -5
Things are a little less busy and I promise ye noble followers of this thread a continued review by Sunday! Hmph! You really left us hanging there, pink. Still. . . Will I be there on Sunday?  |
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Post by pinkfloydsound17 on Dec 8, 2017 22:33:00 GMT -5
^ I know I feel bad. I was on a roll, then a new job came up so I have been busy there. Plus, when I have been reading, it has been more of a variation but it is time to get back on track  |
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Post by pinkfloydsound17 on Dec 11, 2017 21:24:35 GMT -5
Invaders #16 The Cover A classic "everyone is wounded and the villain holds up one of them as a prize" style cover. Reminds me of an Avengers issue where I think Man-Ape is holding up someone (might even be Cap). Master Man is obviously returning, I am excited to see how he survived his apparent death back in the Giant Size Invaders issue. The StoryWe start in a movie theatre where some soldiers are watching film footage of the Invaders. Unbeknownst to the, Bucky and Cap are in attendance in their civilian alter egos watching. Bucky is excited when he hears someone cheering him on as he steps into battle. They leave the theatre and the city plunges into darkness. Fearing a Nazi attack, they switch attire and as they do, they overhear an attack in a nearby alley. They see an American GI and a woman being attacked by Nazi's wearing KKK inspired hoods. Cap and Bucky make quick work of them. The GI (his name is Biljo White) punches out a Nzai himself but when he turns to his lady friend, Julia, she pulls a gun on him! All of a sudden she has a German accent. She reveals she was part of the plan to help kidnap this Biljo character and they succeed, running off with him a gun to him, preventing Cap and Bucky from further attacking. Our two heroes then rendezvous with their team members. They and a group of high ranking military types discuss the fact they learned about an abduction that was to take place. Cap and Bucky reveal they stumbled upon this abduction but everyone is confused why someone would abduct a private. Then Toro and Bucky recognize the man's name...he is a comic book artist for Major Victory Comics! Cap asks someone to grab him the latest issue and the origin story is very similar to that of Captain America's. They determine that the Nazi must think this artist knows something about the operation Cap underwent to become the soldier he is, which is why he was captured. It is determined that the Invaders will have to rush to save Biljo, as Cap feels guilty that a story that was similar to his own origin was the result of the man's kidnapping. They arrive at Hitler's fortress and are suddenly taken out of the sky by some projectile, which flies through the hull of Namor's ship. The ship is destroyed and we find out it was Master Man who caused this crash. He is now flying and much stronger and is able to defeat a surprised Invaders team. They awake chained up inside Hitler's fortress and the issue ends with Hitler himself appearing. OpinionsSo Mooney does the art here and right away I am reminiscent of his work on Spider-Man. In this panel, Bucky looks a lot like Peter Parker to me...  I think it is the eyes. Anyway, I liked the break from the Robbins art. It was nice to get some different angles in some scenes. The one where Cap is reading the Major Victory comic is drawn as though we are on Cap's shoulder, peering over and reading the comic with him. I feel like you would not see that in a Robbins comic. The story was great. I loved it and for some reason, just had to Google search this Biljo White. Imagine my surprise when I found he is a real person! Apparently he was a pioneer in the comic fandom world, doing a lot of fan work. How cool must it have been for him to appear in this comic. He reportedly had a large Golden Age collection of books, which sounds amazing. He also started up Batmania, the fanzine that ran Biljo passed in 2003, according to the link below one of the links below. If you want to learn more, the two links provided are the best IMO. www.inter-fan.org/history/biljo.htmwww.twomorrows.com/comicbookartist/articles/03batmania.htmlA few questions for those who may have an answer...did Biljo do any art in this issue? He was apparently a decent artist. Also, was he aware they did this for him? I would assume they were. Also how long did Batmania run? Does anyone have these and if so, what is in them? Overall, one of the better issues. A nice cliffhanger ending. A comic tie in within the comic, which I liked a lot. Looking forward to the next ish! Quote of the Issue"Maybe he isn't, Ratzi...but we are!" - Captain America's declaration when he and Bucky jump in to stop the Nazi soldiers from harming a GI and woman.
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