|
Post by codystarbuck on Dec 12, 2017 1:08:39 GMT -5
Yeah, Biljo was big in that first generation of comics fans, that included Roy Thomas and Jerry Bails. Never saw or read batmania. I have some scans of some fanzines; but, not that one. I don't believe he did any art in the comic, though.
Personally, I missed Robbins in the issues with fill-in and guest artists. Once they had Frank Springer inking, the stuff was pure gold and I liked it even before. Mooney's good on this, though. The gang is back for the enxt one and it's full of Robbins/Springer goodness.
This was the start of my favorite storyline in the series and the one I think probably most fulfilled Roy's vision for this series. It had everything: Nazi supervillains, Hitler, the super-soldier formula, Cap diving into crowds of Nazis, Namor smashing things, Torch burning stuff, high tech prisons, surprises, tie-ins to Timely characters, and a pure sense of fun.
|
|
|
Post by mikelmidnight on Dec 12, 2017 12:23:58 GMT -5
A few questions for those who may have an answer...did Biljo do any art in this issue? He was apparently a decent artist. Also, was he aware they did this for him? I would assume they were. I believe it's in the credits? IIRC he inked the panels with his counterpart's art in it, or something.
|
|
|
Post by brutalis on Dec 12, 2017 13:38:31 GMT -5
Yeah, Biljo was big in that first generation of comics fans, that included Roy Thomas and Jerry Bails. Never saw or read batmania. I have some scans of some fanzines; but, not that one. I don't believe he did any art in the comic, though. Personally, I missed Robbins in the issues with fill-in and guest artists. Once they had Frank Springer inking, the stuff was pure gold and I liked it even before. Mooney's good on this, though. The gang is back for the enxt one and it's full of Robbins/Springer goodness. This was the start of my favorite storyline in the series and the one I think probably most fulfilled Roy's vision for this series. It had everything: Nazi supervillains, Hitler, the super-soldier formula, Cap diving into crowds of Nazis, Namor smashing things, Torch burning stuff, high tech prisons, surprises, tie-ins to Timely characters, and a pure sense of fun. Right there with you codystarbuck since I missed out on the earlier issues and only found Invaders starting with issue 6 i was instantly hooked with Robbins style of art here and grabbed any issues i could find. Like you said, Roy and the Frank's were hitting it out of the ballpark consistently during this time. I had issues 6 through 24 and then for some reason couldn't find issues for awhile and then suddenly was finding it again from issues 28 through 37 and nothing after that.
|
|
|
Post by tarkintino on Dec 12, 2017 15:53:18 GMT -5
Invaders #16 The Cover A classic "everyone is wounded and the villain holds up one of them as a prize" style cover. Reminds me of an Avengers issue where I think Man-Ape is holding up someone (might even be Cap). Good memory! Yes, it was the cover of The Avengers #78 (July, 1970), by the fantastic team of John Buscema and Tom Palmer-- It was always nice to see Steve and Bucky actually existing as regular people in the middle of the darkest period of history. It humanized them as more than just costumes leaping around. The KKK imagery was always a little heavy-handed here, and incorrect, as the real Nazi party never held much respect for the American-created Klan (and some even questioned the racial make-up of U.S. white people as not being "pure"). Although the quest to replicate the Super Soldier serum was a good sub-plot, the discovery through a comic book seems a bit too meta, if not breaking the fourth wall, sort of like Johnny Storm reading Captain America and Sub-Mariner comics during the Silver Age. Nice cliffhanger-- THE Big Bad shows up at the Invaders' most vulnerable point. Mooney was a nice change from the erratic Robbins work; the title could have used a different artist to give a different, more dramatic look to the title, and Mooney was quite capable of delivering that, as seen in this issue..
|
|
|
Post by codystarbuck on Dec 13, 2017 0:51:00 GMT -5
The hooded figure was an old Golden Age staple, not necessarily invoking the KKK; more the menacing figures from pulp covers and movie serials, two big sources for comic book inspiration. Goodman's pulps were filled with that stuff (his got a bit more grisly than a lot of them). You'd see gangs of thugs in monk robes and hoods; some of it inspired by the Klan, some by other cults (thuggee, assassins, etc...), some of it just because it was easier to draw.
Meanwhile, the German Nazi party may not have had much connection with the KKK, the American Nazi Party and some German-American Bunds did have some interaction and overlap.
|
|
|
Post by tarkintino on Dec 13, 2017 14:02:22 GMT -5
The hooded figure was an old Golden Age staple, not necessarily invoking the KKK; more the menacing figures from pulp covers and movie serials, two big sources for comic book inspiration. I'm familiar with the older versions, but here it is used to make a direct connection from one group of racial hatred to another. I would have preferred the WW2-set title to plant the seeds of Dr. Faustus' National Force group, which would make their real-time debut two years later (1979) in the pages of Captain America. That would have been a nice consistent link from Cap's past to his then-present day. Also familiar with the Bund, although its leader (Fritz Kuhn) seemed to never be accepted as the Stateside Nazi Party insider he wanted to be. As for Rockwell's American Nazi Party--born long after WW2 (1959), largely to fight against the rising "threat" of communism, alleged "Jewish influence" and the U.S. Civil Rights Movement--they too were self-deceiving "inheritors" of people they were not related to, or never knew. Of course, that detail did not stop their sickening, violent activities, but even today, yet another rise of Neo Nazis in Germany see many of its leaders making a separation between themselves and American racists (Neo Nazi, Klan, Skins, Alt Right-ers, et al) as not being "pure", which was my reference to the use of Klan imagery being out of place in this Invaders story involving Nazis.
|
|
|
Post by pinkfloydsound17 on Dec 13, 2017 22:13:04 GMT -5
Invaders #17
The Cover Ah Gil Kane. I like this one, another classic "mini heroes taking on a not-really-a-giant villain". Perfect contender for a couple past comic cover contests. Her outfit is very dominatrixy, and while I don't understand the belt clip on her leg (I see no gun and no way that whip could fit in it), I like it. The background being white is a bit bland but it really makes this Warrior Woman stand out.
The Story So the Invaders have been captured. Master Man mentions being freed from a prison where the Liberty Legion had him (DID I MISS AN ISSUE SOMEWHERE!?! Was this in the Fantastic Four or Marvel Two in One issues in which they appeared in?). Anyways, Cap recaps the last ish and Hitler and Master Man stalk off laughing at the Invaders. We then see poor Biljo being tortured by the woman he was with last ish. She calls herself Madam Mystery and is able to get part of the secret from Biljo. Apparently, he had gotten drunk with a scientist who revealed part of the secret solider formula involved potassium.
We then see Madame Mystery in a lab trying to recreate the formula. A Nazi captain sees her and threatens to tell Hitler that she is disobeying orders. She lashes out with her whip and throws him into the scientific equipment, causing an explosion. The explosion allows the Invaders, who are in the dungeon, to be freed. Except now, Madam Mystery has been affected and is bigger and stronger.
The Invaders attack Hitler but Madam Mystery (who now calls herself Warrior Woman, as advertised on the cover) thwarts the Torches attempt to capture the Nazi leader. Warrior Woman engages in combat with Cap and throws him over the walls of Hitler's fortress to his supposed death. She then helps Master Man beat Namor down. The trio stand over the 4defeated Invaders, promising to publicly execute them.
Opinions The action keeps rollin' along nicely here. Another cliffhanger ending. Oh and Cap also had a brief moment to wonder where Spitfire and her father went (back in issue #15) so we know that part of the story is still in play. Robbins was back on the art and you really notice it after seeing someone else's work last ish. His faces are sloppy, almost cartoonish at times but it eventually grows on ya...it's kind of like it just works for the type of comic that it is. Julia aka Mystery Ratsel aka Madam Mystery aka Warrior Woman seems interesting enough...but the need for four names in the span of 2 issues seems a bit much. She seems bent on showing Adolf that a woman can serve him just as well as a man can.
Quote of Issue "Stay back! I don't hit women!"- Cap declares before he is picked up and thrown to his apparent death by Warrior Woman. He may want to reevaluate his stance on this in future issues.
|
|
|
Post by codystarbuck on Dec 14, 2017 16:50:12 GMT -5
Master Man is referring to the multi-part story from FF Annual #11, and Marvel Two-in-One Annual #1 and issue 20, where the Thing teams up with the Invaders and Liberty Legion, via time travel... They face Master Man and U-Man in those issues, as well as Skyshark, another Nazi villain. The belt on the leg is supposed to be a garter, I think. Robbins pretty much took Wonder Woman (with Roy's conception of her as a Nazi villain) and turned the costume into a Nazi dominatrix version. So, we get leather bathing suit, thigh boots and gauntlets, then a whole lot of belts and whips, for that BDSM theme. It really fits, when you think about the Golden Age Wonder Woman stories, as her alternate-world Nazi doppelganger would pretty much look something like this. I have to say, Robbins was pretty darn successful, as it had my adolescent heart thumping. Wonder Woman was sexy; but, Warrior Woman was SEX! If you notice, Robbins uses a lot of belts and buckles in his costuming of various characters. It really gives them that 1940s feel, with the leather Sam Brown uniform belts and holsters of the era, plus the combat boots of the era. They laced up; but, they had a leather cuff at the top, which buckled at the side, with two straps and buckles. If you look at Master Man's boots and gloves (and Union Jack's) they have those twin buckles. Robbins just takes it further with Warrior Woman. I still wish DC and Marvel would have done a JSA/Invaders crossover, back when they were co-operating, with Roy Thomas as the writer and maybe Jerry ordway as the penciller. Who wouldn't want to see the Golden Age Wonder Woman go up against Krieger Frau? She and Paula Von Gunther would have made quite a duo. Heck, DC and Marvel could have turned that into a whole 'nother kind of comic, with Eric Stanton on art!
|
|
|
Post by pinkfloydsound17 on Dec 17, 2017 17:00:08 GMT -5
Invaders #18The CoverIn my opinion, this cover is one of the best so far. A great action scene drawn by, of course, Gil Kane. I love the fact that a lot is happening yet there is detail in all of it. Cap also looks very menacing thanks to the lack of pupils in his eyes. We also see the Destroyer, who looks to be a very interesting character. The yellow backdrop pops and makes this a great cover. The StoryWe start with a recap of Warrior Woman tossing Cap off the wall of the fortress. We seem his fall stopped by an unknown costumed hero, obviously the Destroyer. Cap lands on him, knocking them both out. We then jump back to Hitler celebrating his defeat of the Invaders. He demands some soldiers go to retrieve Caps body and shield for further study. Then, he shares his thoughts about having two supreme beings in Master Man and Warrior Woman working for him. He suggests that the two will marry and be the start of his supreme race. Master Man loves the idea but Warrior Woman does not. She says she must think on this and leaves, after which we see Master Man angry at being rejected. Well, these poor soldiers head out and they find Cap…alive! He and the Destroyer make quick work of the Nazi guards. Then, Destroyer leads Cap into a secret cave where he then reveals more about his origin. Apparently, it was thought that Destroyer was American when in fact he is English. He was an American correspondent who was in prison with a scientist who had possession of a super soldier formula. He gave it to Destroyer who gained his powers and then fought against the Nazis. Cap mentions the FBI thinking his alter ego was Keen Marlow and that is when Destroyer reveals his face to Cap (but not the reader). Switch scenes and we see the Invaders once again in captivity. Torch ponders what has happened to Spitfire and her father (as well as little old Dyna-Mite). Well wonder no more shall we as we see them parachuting into Germany. They are picked up by an old German friend of Lord Falsworth. Dyna-Mite expresses his frustration as they drive off about how he cannot remember his past, even though Falsworth appears to know something as he continues to call the pint sized hero by his name, Roger. We then return to Cap and Destroyer, who have infiltrated the fortress. They overhear Warrior Woman commanding some soldiers to execute Biljo as he is no longer needed. They take him away but Cap and Destroyer jump in to save him. Then, the duo confronts a scientist about the whereabouts of Hitler and his captured team members. The scientist tells them that Hitler plans to publicly execute his friends. This prompts Cap to exclaim he will murder the German leader if anything should happen to the Invaders. OpinionsThis is shaping up to be the best story arc so far. The Destroyer is a nice Golden Age bring back and the fact that we must wait to learn who he is adds a nice bit of suspense. Also, Dyna-Mite’s lack of memory of his own history has me intrigued. We also got to see Spitfire and her father back in action, and there is the whole question of what they have been doing the past couple issues. They appear to be trying to help Dyna-Mite remember his past, whatever importance that may have will hopefully be revealed. Finally, the fact that Warrior Woman has some doubts about marrying Master Man and starting the all perfect superhuman race suggests she may play a future role in helping the Invaders (maybe not, but she does seem to struggle with the idea of blindly serving Adolf and being a wife to Master Man). Quote of the Issue“Then, for the first time in his life, Captain America will commit cold-blooded murder! THIS I SWEAR!- Cap's declaration at the end of the issue Has he ever killed? Methinks he may have back in the Golden Age...perhaps someone else knows for sure.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2017 22:03:30 GMT -5
pinkfloydsound17 This was a great issue. Loved the re intro of some more Timely Golden Age heroes. And yes Cap did kill in the past.
|
|
|
Post by codystarbuck on Dec 18, 2017 0:39:43 GMT -5
Roy brings back one of the few characters from the golden Age that had a significant Stan Lee presence: The Destroyer! Now granted, the guy was an attempt at mimicking Captain America and never really rose above back-up status; but, Roy is having some fun here. Again, Robbins style just says "Golden Age," which really makes the rather ludicrous costume work. In his hands, i can believe a guy would wear that, behind enemy lines, to fight the Nazis.
Things are heating up well for next issue, which is a real humdinger!
|
|
|
Post by tarkintino on Dec 19, 2017 15:38:39 GMT -5
Invaders #18 Oh, if only Kane had been the regular artist for the interiors.... Yes. If you browse various Golden Age titles, you will see Cap using various means to kill. Whether it was "cold blooded" is up for debate.
|
|
|
Post by pinkfloydsound17 on Dec 30, 2017 14:04:58 GMT -5
Invaders #19The Cover
A Romita/Sinnott combo here. Obviously Spitfire gets herself involved again, as she is seen captive on the cover. The eerie darkened soldiers in the foreground add some darkness to this otherwide very bright cover. Of course, seeing Hitler on a cover is striking...was this a big deal to have something published in mainstream media, especially that swastika in the background? At any rate, this storyline has been moving along and this cover looks promising. The StoryWe kick off with Cap and Destroyer in Berlin, watching from above as the captured Invaders are paraded through the town. Cap wants to jump in to save them but Destroyer convinces him to wait. However, young Bucky gets a little feisty kicks a Nazi guard down and is about to be shot so Cap has to jump down to save the day. He and Destroyer try their best to battle of the guards but eventually have to give in. One of the Nazis throws a grenade which explodes and kills several of his own men as well as Destroyer, who had continued to fight. Cap is deeply saddened by this. From above, however, we see Lord Falsworth, Spitfire, Dyna-Mite and their German friend Osckar. Apparently they are back in Berlin trying to get Dyna-Mite to remember his past. Why you ask? Well apparently he was once a friend of Lord Falsworth's son and the two of them initially showed their support for Hitler. This caused Falsworth to denounce his son but apparently he now wants to know what happened to his son. If Dyna-Mite was experimented on perhaps his son was also and is still alive? Sadly, Dyna-Mite cannot remember anything about his past but their German chum Oskar tells them of the Institute of Nazi Science might be the best place to start looking for these answers. So that is where they go. Spitfire and Dyna-Mite use their strength to bust into the place. They confront a scientist, who tells them about how he experimented on Dyna-Mite to make him what he was after he and Lord Falsworth's son tried to leave Germany (they eventually realized that the Nazi party was up to bad things but were prevented from leaving). It is revealed that his son was imprisoned and that is where he met a scientist with a super soldier formula and drank it to become the Destroyer! What a good twist! Lord Falsworth is shocked as he witnessed this very hero die in the grenade explosion earlier in the issue. While the quartet is reeling from this news, the scientist presses a button under his desk and the group is plunged into an underground chamber, where they are gassed unconscious. The final scenes show Hitler putting on a show for his followers, as the union of Master Man and Warrior Woman is displayed for all to see (Warrior Woman still seems angry based on her facial expression in one panel...unless she just has a real good resting b face). Then, the Invaders plus Spitfire are shown being lined up in front of the firing squad, all of them weakened from some gas they have been hit with to keep them stunned. Hitler is just about to send them to their death when Union Jack busts in to (hopefully) save the day! Opinions
What a great run this is! A great twist added in here with Lord Falsworth's son (Brian) being Destroyer but is he really dead? Who is this Union Jack we see at the end? Also, where are Lord Falsworth, Dyna-Mite and Oskar, their Germany spy friend? They were not part of the group about to be subjected to the firing squad at the end of the issue but they were all captured when the scientist trapped them earlier. Definitely a lot of good questions still to be answered and this story is entertaining and intriguing enough to really keep you going. I also wonder about Warrior Woman still and whether this "union" her and Master Man now have is something that she will stick with. Finally, Oskar has me wondering whether his role as Lord Falsworth's friend will evolve more than him just being someone who pushes the nobleman around in his wheelchair. Quote of the Issue "Not to worry Spitfire! It's time I did rather more than merely secrete myself in your cloak." - Dyna-Mite's exclamation as he leaps out of Spitfire's cape to help her fight. Umm...secrete yourself in her cloak eh? I know the word usage is correct but when read the more common way it has a strange sexual connotation. Or maybe my mind is just that far in the gutter.
|
|
|
Post by codystarbuck on Dec 30, 2017 15:53:53 GMT -5
Hitler and the swastika appearing wasn't a big deal, especially since this is set in WW2. You saw it quite a bit on men's adventure paperbacks, conspiracy theory books, etc... People have always been fascinated with WW2 and the rise of the Nazis.
Brian Falsworth being the Destroyer is a retcon. The original was a journalist, named Keen Marlow, who was trapped in Germany and who drinks the potion given to him, by a scientist. Roy tweaked it into being Brian Falsworth and that Keen Marlow was a cover name. You'll see Lord Falsworth and Jacqueline in the next issue.
I loved this issue. The scenes of Cap diving into the crowd of Nazi soldiers is one of my favorite Cap action sequences in his entire history. Robbins did that stuff well. His rubbery style with superheroes made them fluid, which lent itself well to the action sequences. By contrast, his work on Johnny Hazard was more solid and realistic (within his art style). This was Robbins adapting for modern comics.
Roy's playing a bit with some actual history, in Brian and Roger Aubrey's flirtation with the Nazis. When Hitler first came to power, he and the Nazis were widely praised in many corners of the world, including the UK. Some felt that strong leadership would help end the chaos of Weimar Germany and make them a better trading partner. Thing is, Hitler had already spelled out his vision in Mein Kampf, which most never read. Those that did were either horrified or were right there with him, with other anti-semites and fascist ideologues. Henry Ford was notorious for promoting the false Protocols of the Elders of Zion, an anti-semitic tract that was used around the world to justify bigotry and persecution. In the UK, Hitler had many fans on the far right, including the black shirts of Sir Oswald Ernald Mosley. He flirted with both the Conservative and Labour Party, before becoming elected as a Labour Minister of Parliament. He split with the party and the government and formed the New Party and joined with the British Union of Fascists. He was satirized by PG Wodehouse, in the Jeeves and Wooster stories, with the character Sir Roderick Spode.
Even the Duke of Windsor, the former King Edward the Eighth, was friendly towards the Nazis and was dogged by accusations of Nazi sympathies, right through the war (with much debate about how deeply). Certainly Hitler saw great propaganda in the Duke of Windsor and the former king and Wallis Simpson made a well publicized visit to Germany, in 1937, where he was seen giving Nazi salutes.
Roy's playing with the background of that visit and British fascist, like Mosley, to make Roger and Brian Falsworth seem like playboy aristocrat youths who supported Hitler's strong policies, while ignoring the harsher realities of the persecution of Hitler's "enemies," particularly Jews and Gypsies. The idea is that Brian and Roger are woken up to Hitler's atrocities and, after experiments, become superhuman and use their abilities to fight the Nazis; Brian as the Destroyer, within occupied Europe, and Roger, under Nazi influence, sent to the UK as part of the Crusaders, who were all Nazi dupes.
This is part of why I loved this series and this storyline, in particular. Roy weaved real history into the heroics, while expanding on the background of the Timely heroes wartime activities. This is definitely the pinnacle of what Roy has been building.
As we have seen and see here, Warrior Woman is a smart, tough, capable person, in a man's world. The Nazi ideology saw the role of women as wives and mother's, to breed their Aryan super-race. Women were encouraged and expected to wed and have many children, to build the population. There were even rewards, under the Nazis. Warrior Woman has been hit in the face with that ideology and finds herself torn between her desires to chart her own path and her devotion to her fuhrer. It makes her the most interesting character of the Nazi supervillains, as Master Man is mostly muscle-bound meathead and U-Man is a scheming traitor of Atlantis. Baron Blood appears to be "dead," (he is a vampire, so a return is possible) and out of the picture. Warrior Woman is now faced with having to marry a man she detests as her intellectual inferior (and a jerk, to boot) and, even worse, bear him children. That relationship is pretty much carried forward in future appearances, even after the Invaders series was over (such as when they were revived, in the Namor series of the 90s). Ozzy and Harriet they ain't!
If memory serves, Oskar isn't a Nazi and is a friend and contact of Falsworth, from his days as Union Jack. As such, he is part of the German resistance against Hitler.
|
|
|
Post by pinkfloydsound17 on Dec 30, 2017 18:08:56 GMT -5
You are right about Oskar. I switched that bkt to him being German and not Nazi.
|
|