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Post by kirby101 on Sept 23, 2017 19:59:18 GMT -5
In the Silver Age, Spider-Man and the Fantastic Four were the crown jewels of Marvel.
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Post by EdoBosnar on Sept 24, 2017 3:06:25 GMT -5
Hyperion, Power Princess and Nighthawk ...  |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2017 5:46:48 GMT -5
Let's try to do a equivalent comparison.
Superman (unstoppable force) = Hulk
Wonder Woman (mythic battle hero & non-human representing the highest character and uses both magic/enchanted weapons) = Thor
Batman (the brilliant but mortal vigilante that works within the "grew zone" and relies on tech) = Iron Man
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2017 7:37:39 GMT -5
@willow ... I like your thinking, Thor, Iron Man, and the Hulk.
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Post by spoon on Sept 24, 2017 9:22:25 GMT -5
If you are only looking at 2008 or so to present,t hen it would be Tony, Cap and Thor, but if you look at the breadth of Marvel from '61 to present and figure in recognizable of the characters over the majority of that period, two of the three would have to be Spider-Man and the Hulk. Part of what makes DC's Trinity, the Trinity for them is that they were the only 3 characters who remained in print in their own titles (not as strips in other titles) throughout the entire history of DC. That lead to their being considered part of the fabric of DC and what was most associated with DC when DC was mentioned. Other than Spider-Man. Marvel doesn't have that. Even Hulk had his first title cancelled, most of the other iconic heroes were strips in other titles first, and FF has fallen of the publishing radar. Also, Supes, Bats and Wondy were present in other forms of media throughout the course of DC's history, adding to their recognizability to the general public, from Fleisher cartoons for Supes to the cover of Ms. Magazine for Wondy and the myriad of appearances for the Bat, they achieve a certain iconic status in pop culture being recognizable to those not "into" comics. Of the Marvel heroes, only maybe Spidey and the Hulk had that prior to 2008 (the X-Men did to a lesser extent after the success of the '92 animated series and the Singer films. However, presence in mass media doesn't lead to automatic recognition factor, see the FF, who appeared on Saturday mornings in various formats through the years and even had films prior to '08 but never achieved the kind of recognition factor Spidey and Hulk had, let alone Supes, Bats and Wondy. So I am not sure Marvel has a Trinity (or as Bert said, even needs one). And I think the idea of the Trinity has held back other DC characters who are just now starting to come into their own beyond hardcore comic fan culture. -M I remember the three DC Trinity characters being singled at as being the only continuously published ones at point, but that really hasn't been the case for a long time. When Wonder Woman's old title was canceled during Crisis, there was a big gap until her new title (even taking into account the Legend of Wonder Woman miniseries that filled 4 of those months). Superman and Batman have consistently had multiple titles. With the exception of the early days with Sensation Comics, I don't think WW has generally had multiple titles. So she was generally treated as a junior partner before this trinity concept was launched. Marvel doesn't have a clear analog, because hasn't chosen to have that focus or the focus has varied over time. In terms of the awareness of the general public, the most accurate analysis would be to demote WW and draw the comparison between Superman and Batman at DC and Spider-Man and Hulk at Marvel. Those characters were widely known among the general public, even among those who didn't know anything about comics. They had the most exposure in other media and were a big presence in licensed products. I remember as a little kid, I would get the sunglasses, clothes, etc. with the Hulk on them and my brother would get Spider-Man. There wasn't another Marvel character that was close. Captain America, Thor, and Iron Man were the trinity of the Avengers, not of the larger Marvel Universe. It's only really been since the advent of the MCU among the general public that they've had such a significant status. I think a lot of fans would be hard pressed to identify which company published Thor and Iron Man, or even who they were, prior to the first Iron Man film. A major part of why the first Iron Man film was a watershed is because it represented a second or third tier character having blockbuster success. This was something expected of Superman, Batman, or Spider-Man, but not this guy. Part of this is that, until recently, the Avengers wasn't the capstone on its universe like the Justice League was. In Marvel, it couldn't simply be a matter of putting the leaders of the premiere team at the forefront. But in Marvel, Spider-Man and the Hulk operated outside the Avengers with a status of individual heroes as big as the whole roster of the Avengers combined. The Fantastic Four and X-Men were just as prominent as the Avengers. The Fantastic Four was probably bigger in the 1960s and the X-Men were bigger in the 1980s and 1990s. In terms of sales, public exposure, licensing, etc., I bet Wolverine was in the top 3 Marvel characters for much of period that the X-Men were at the top of the comics universe. The Punisher had mulotiple titles and was probably among the top characters in solo title sales for a while. |
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Post by Cei-U! on Sept 24, 2017 10:20:27 GMT -5
I agree that A) Marvel neither has nor needs a Trinity equivalent, and B) if we insist on identifying one anyway, it should be Spider-Man, Hulk, and Captain America, if only because these were the three always included in the merchandising of the '70s and '80s and therefore represented the corporate view of which characters mattered most to the bottom line. The comparison of Superman/Batman/Wonder Woman with Captain America/Iron Man/Thor, in my opinion, only works in the context of comparing the JLA and the Avengers.
Cei-U!
I summon my two cents' worth!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2017 10:44:18 GMT -5
Personally? My favorite Marvel Trinity? Capt Marvel. Mary Marvel. Capt Marvel Jr.  |
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Sept 24, 2017 10:53:19 GMT -5
Personally? My favorite Marvel Trinity? Capt Marvel. Mary Marvel. Capt Marvel Jr. No love for Tall Billy Batson, Fat Billy Batson and Hill Billy Batson? |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2017 10:55:19 GMT -5
Personally? My favorite Marvel Trinity? Capt Marvel. Mary Marvel. Capt Marvel Jr. No love for Tall Billy Batson, Fat Billy Batson and Hill Billy Batson? Nope. None. Even they were too silly for me.... |
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Post by batusi on Sept 24, 2017 11:07:16 GMT -5
Captain America
Hulk
Iron Man
Sorry, but Thor doesn't cut it in my idea of Trinity. Thor is a borrowed idea, not exactly original and I do believe that Marvel has no copyright over the character name "Thor". Thor was not created by Marvel and is a mythological character created in the 1700-1800's(?). There really is no female character that would fit Marvel's Trinity, at least not from the classic stable of characters. Hard to believe that ONLY DC created such an iconic female superhero (Wonder Woman) that has stood the test of time and is as recognized as much as Superman and Batman.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2017 11:20:21 GMT -5
Captain America Hulk Iron Man Sorry, but Thor doesn't cut it in my idea of Trinity. Thor is a borrowed idea, not exactly original and I do believe that Marvel has no copyright over the character name "Thor". Thor was not created by Marvel and is a mythological character created in the 1700-1800's(?). There really is no female character that would fit Marvel's Trinity, at least not from the classic stable of characters. Hard to believe that ONLY DC created such an iconic female superhero (Wonder Woman) that has stood the test of time and is as recognized as much as Superman and Batman. It's not the origin of the character but what was done with it, Batman was a blatant copy of the Shadow and Superman of Doc Savage (and borrowing the Superman name from Nietzsche), cashing in on the popularity of those characters in the pulps, but what was done with them transcended the origins. and DC didn't create any of the Trinity characters, all were brought to them by people who had created them and they bought and published them. -M |
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Post by batusi on Sept 24, 2017 11:39:29 GMT -5
Captain America Hulk Iron Man Sorry, but Thor doesn't cut it in my idea of Trinity. Thor is a borrowed idea, not exactly original and I do believe that Marvel has no copyright over the character name "Thor". Thor was not created by Marvel and is a mythological character created in the 1700-1800's(?). There really is no female character that would fit Marvel's Trinity, at least not from the classic stable of characters. Hard to believe that ONLY DC created such an iconic female superhero (Wonder Woman) that has stood the test of time and is as recognized as much as Superman and Batman. It's not the origin of the character but what was done with it, Batman was a blatant copy of the Shadow and Superman of Doc Savage (and borrowing the Superman name from Nietzsche), cashing in on the popularity of those characters in the pulps, but what was done with them transcended the origins. and DC didn't create any of the Trinity characters, all were brought to them by people who had created them and they bought and published them. -M Of course Batman was copied or inspired after the Shadow, Flash Gordon or whatever action hero preceded, that always happens. The Thor character was taken from the actual mythological character named "Thor", basically all of the aspects were borrowed (snatched/taken), not inspired from exactly. Not trying to shit on Thor because I like the character and what Marvel did with the character. And a big fat DUH to your second point.  |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2017 12:51:46 GMT -5
Captain America Hulk Iron Man Sorry, but Thor doesn't cut it in my idea of Trinity. Thor is a borrowed idea, not exactly original and I do believe that Marvel has no copyright over the character name "Thor". Thor was not created by Marvel and is a mythological character created in the 1700-1800's(?). There really is no female character that would fit Marvel's Trinity, at least not from the classic stable of characters. Hard to believe that ONLY DC created such an iconic female superhero (Wonder Woman) that has stood the test of time and is as recognized as much as Superman and Batman. It's not the origin of the character but what was done with it, Batman was a blatant copy of the Shadow and Superman of Doc Savage (and borrowing the Superman name from Nietzsche), cashing in on the popularity of those characters in the pulps, but what was done with them transcended the origins. and DC didn't create any of the Trinity characters, all were brought to them by people who had created them and they bought and published them. -M Of course Batman was copied or inspired after the Shadow, Flash Gordon or whatever action hero preceded, that always happens. The Thor character was taken from the actual mythological character named "Thor", basically all of the aspects were borrowed (snatched/taken), not inspired from exactly. Not trying to shit on Thor because I like the character and what Marvel did with the character. And a big fat DUH to your second point. It may be duh, but you are the one who asserted only DC created such an iconic female superhero, your words, not mine. And Marvel's Thor as he appears in the early pages of Marvel comics has more in common with Superman than he does with the mythological Thor. Even once Kirby came back to Thor and started introducing more mythological concepts to it and developing the Asgard of the Marvel Universe, there were vast difference between Marvel's Thor and the Thor that appeared in the Edda and other sources of Norse mythology. It was a concept they borrowed and developed in their own way just as concepts were borrowed from Doc Savage and the Shadow and developed in their own way. The sources were different, but the behavior/actions of the creators in borrowing and customizing content was the same. Thor was borrowed form an actual public domain mythological character and given a fresh coat of paint for comics. Superman and Batman were borrowed from other actual proprietary characters form the pulps and given a fresh coat of paint for the comics. Both started as riffs on existing characters and developed their own identity on the comics page. You're right, that always happens, but trying to make a distinction that one is more acceptable or more original because of what material it is borrowing from than one that borrows from a different source is nonsense. -M |
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Post by batusi on Sept 24, 2017 13:09:01 GMT -5
Captain America Hulk Iron Man Sorry, but Thor doesn't cut it in my idea of Trinity. Thor is a borrowed idea, not exactly original and I do believe that Marvel has no copyright over the character name "Thor". Thor was not created by Marvel and is a mythological character created in the 1700-1800's(?). There really is no female character that would fit Marvel's Trinity, at least not from the classic stable of characters. Hard to believe that ONLY DC created such an iconic female superhero (Wonder Woman) that has stood the test of time and is as recognized as much as Superman and Batman. Of course Batman was copied or inspired after the Shadow, Flash Gordon or whatever action hero preceded, that always happens. The Thor character was taken from the actual mythological character named "Thor", basically all of the aspects were borrowed (snatched/taken), not inspired from exactly. Not trying to shit on Thor because I like the character and what Marvel did with the character. And a big fat DUH to your second point. It may be duh, but you are the one who asserted only DC created such an iconic female superhero, your words, not mine. And Marvel's Thor as he appears in the early pages of Marvel comics has more in common with Superman than he does with the mythological Thor. Even once Kirby came back to Thor and started introducing more mythological concepts to it and developing the Asgard of the Marvel Universe, there were vast difference between Marvel's Thor and the Thor that appeared in the Edda and other sources of Norse mythology. It was a concept they borrowed and developed in their own way just as concepts were borrowed from Doc Savage and the Shadow and developed in their own way. The sources were different, but the behavior/actions of the creators in borrowing and customizing content was the same. Thor was borrowed form an actual public domain mythological character and given a fresh coat of paint for comics. Superman and Batman were borrowed from other actual proprietary characters form the pulps and given a fresh coat of paint for the comics. Both started as riffs on existing characters and developed their own identity on the comics page. You're right, that always happens, but trying to make a distinction that one is more acceptable or more original because of what material it is borrowing from than one that borrows from a different source is nonsense. -M DC created Wonder Woman, no other super heroine comes close to her in notoriety or popularity. What female characters has Marvel created that could even be considered part of a Trinity in a sober discussion? Not really agreeing with your Thor assertion...ok, The mythological Thor character was a hammer-wielding god associated with thunder, lightning, storms, strength...the exact concept of the character that Marvel capitalized on. Of course Marvel went beyond the original concept and expanded on the character. Superman and Batman were pretty original in comparison to Thor, although inspired from other creations, they were a more original concept/creation than Thor. |
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Sept 24, 2017 13:22:16 GMT -5
"DC" did not create Wonder Woman. Even using the most generous view of corporate creation, DC didn't create Wonder Woman. William Marston finagled his way on to an advisory board created by Max Gaines to advise DC/AA and then came to Gaines with Wonder Woman. Gaines bought Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman. "DC" did not create any of the three.
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