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Post by Outrajs on Oct 5, 2017 9:15:35 GMT -5
Harley Quinn - Became a villain because of the Joker
Enchantress I - Origin story was she was sent by Odin to kill Jane Foster and failed at seducing Thor
Enchantress II - Created by Loki
Catwoman - Has no real backstory that I can pinpoint...she is most notable for being a love-interest for Batman
Poison Ivy - Ecoterrorist (which as an environmentalist myself I love and think is cool that a comic book would go this route) but she also has very little backstory and is also associated with Batman as a love interest...and was basically just introduced as a temptress
Songbird - (although a street punk originally) Was set up by her boyfriend and went to prison where she ultimately went down her darkest path
Cheetah - Although performing and going through her ritual correctly is actually cursed because she wasn't a virgin and therefore "impure" sticking to the old sexist reasoning that women who sleep around are sluts and looked down on and men who sleep around are players and looked up to.
Magneta - Idolized Magneto and basically emulated him
Black Cat - Same as Catwoman but with Spiderman
Maxima - Rejected by Superman
Lady Deathstrike - Revenge against her father for scarring her face and her boyfriends subsequent suicide
Circe - See Odysseus
Please tell me there are villainesses out there who were not made that way because they were hurt by a man or because they hate other women? And yes, "Crazy Bitch Syndrome" counts as long as they are not crazy for the aforementioned reasons. Are the super villain women of today portrayed in a less sexist way than those of the golden and silver ages?
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Oct 5, 2017 10:26:20 GMT -5
That's a great subject... Here are a few I can think of, although some of them might be judged borderline.
Selene : immortal mutant worshipped as a goddess since antiquity. Although her psychic vampire nature would naturally make her a predator, she relishes her power over others and acts in a gratuitously evil way.
Hela : I don't know if we can count her as a villainess, because she's just doing her job, really. Norse goddess of death, she did try to kill Thor on several occasions.
Viper / Madame Hydra : she's a war victim who conceived a deep hatred of governments at a tender age, leading to her taking over the terrorist organization Hydra. She then followed a nihilistic agenda for several years. Nowadays she seems to be more interested in money (depending on who writes her).
Deathbird: a rejected member of the Shi'ar imperial family on account of her mutations, Deathbird worked for a good long while to topple her sister who occupied the throne (even succeeding from time to time). I don't know if she's still around, but ambition and a frustrated childhood were her main motivations.
Ramona Starr (a Ka-Zar enemy). Manipulative, intelligent, ruthless, Ramona was a very efficient agent of A.I.M. who let no one stand in her way. She even forced a remote-controlled Ka-Zar to have sex with her, in a reversal of the old comic-book trope in which it is usually women who are thus assaulted!
Moonstone : a child raised in poverty, Karla Sofen swore never to let other people's needs keep her from getting what she wanted. Acting as therapist for the Captain America villain Moonstone, she managed to get ahold of his magical source of power and became a full-fledged super-villain. (She was with the Thunderbolts and the Dark Avengers, so I don't know if she's still a villain).
...and I don't know a lot about Granny Goodness, but my impression is that she had no particular origin... She's just the schoolmarm from Hell!
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Crimebuster
CCF Podcast Guru
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Post by Crimebuster on Oct 5, 2017 11:58:34 GMT -5
Viper/Madame Hydra being interested in money is one of the dumbest things I have ever heard. I'm glad I am not reading those comics!
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Oct 5, 2017 12:17:29 GMT -5
Viper/Madame Hydra being interested in money is one of the dumbest things I have ever heard. I'm glad I am not reading those comics! Agreed, it makes no sense at all. But then when she became a popular villain again a few years ago, very little of what she had been was retained... She mostly became a generic evil group leader. (That happens with a lot of characters Michael Bendis handles... they instantly become what he wants them to be).
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Post by pinkfloydsound17 on Oct 5, 2017 16:49:43 GMT -5
What about Typhoid Mary? I only know her from reading some of Brubaker's run on DD but have always wanted to read her earlier appearances in the 80's.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Oct 5, 2017 17:17:54 GMT -5
What about Typhoid Mary? I only know her from reading some of Brubaker's run on DD but have always wanted to read her earlier appearances in the 80's. She was really great under Ann Nocenti's pen! I highly recommend her DD run, from beginning to end. Only Nocenti could make Daredevil vs Ultron so incredibly cool! As originally conceived, she was a woman with a severe multiple personality disorder, with mutant powers to boot (she could cause things to get hot and burst aflame if given enough time). I think she was retconned years later as being the prostitute who falls out a window in the Man without fear limited series. That particular retcon never made sense to me, if only because the character's hair color was all wrong. Evil, evil retcon spirit... get thee away from us!
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Post by Rob Allen on Oct 5, 2017 19:30:53 GMT -5
Marvel had two Silver Age villainesses who did "face turns": Black Widow and Scarlet Witch.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2017 20:20:31 GMT -5
Catwoman
The thing about her is that she's so complex and yet I find her very challenging and so unique that she once a supervillainess and superheroine at any given point of time that I consider her more interesting than the Black Widow and the Scarlet Witch that Rob Allen mentioned on this thread. I haven't read much of her lately but in the past she once was a member of the Injustice League and the Justice League of America and that alone makes her very fascinating character indeed. I do know that she is a love interest to Batman and married him and raised a daughter by the name of Helena Wayne who became the Huntress.
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Post by Cei-U! on Oct 5, 2017 20:33:43 GMT -5
Catwoman has, in fact, had several backstories. In the '50s, we learned that the Golden Age Selina Kyle had been a flight attendant who developed criminal tendencies after a head injury. Another blow to the head restored her memory and she retired the Catwoman persona. Several decades later, in The Brave and the Bold #197, Alan Brennert and Joe Staton revealed that story was a lie. Selina had actually been an abused spouse who launched her crime career by stealing her own jewels back from her asshole ex-husband. This gave her a taste for larceny and she became The Cat. By the time she first met the Dark Knight in Batman #1, she had achieved international notoriety. This revised origin only pertained to the Earth-Two version, her Earth-One counterpart retaining the original, amnesiac stewardess origin up through the Crisis on Infinite Earths. Post-Crisis, Frank Miller made her a prostitute, a development that still leaves a bad taste in my mouth. What her status is now, or has been in the last thirty years, is outside my field of knowledge.
Cei-U! Here, kitty, kitty, kitty!
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Post by pinkfloydsound17 on Oct 5, 2017 21:18:34 GMT -5
What about Typhoid Mary? I only know her from reading some of Brubaker's run on DD but have always wanted to read her earlier appearances in the 80's. She was really great under Ann Nocenti's pen! I highly recommend her DD run, from beginning to end. Only Nocenti could make Daredevil vs Ultron so incredibly cool! As originally conceived, she was a woman with a severe multiple personality disorder, with mutant powers to boot (she could cause things to get hot and burst aflame if given enough time). I think she was retconned years later as being the prostitute who falls out a window in the Man without fear limited series. That particular retcon never made sense to me, if only because the character's hair color was all wrong. Evil, evil retcon spirit... get thee away from us! Is that the Frank Miller mini series where she is retconned? If so, my memory must be going...I read that not too long ago and don't recall it.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Oct 5, 2017 21:21:06 GMT -5
in The Brave and the Bold #97, Alan Brennert and Joe Staton I forget who the guest star was in 97 (95 Plastic Man, 96 Sgt. Rock, 98 Phantom Stranger, 99 Flash.... But I can't remember 97 for the life of me.) But I am fairly certain this is not correct. Probably 197 was Catwoman? I really need to reread.
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Post by codystarbuck on Oct 5, 2017 21:39:16 GMT -5
Iron Maiden was a mercenary, though she had shifting loyalties. Basically, she was a twist on the Dragon Lady, from Terry and the Pirates, where the character is a female gang leader who both opposes and is infatuated with the hero (DL and Pat Ryan, IM and Dynamo). The Dragon Lady was the template for a lot of femme fatale villainesses, though she borrows rather a lot from Fah Lo Suee, the daughter of Fu Manchu, who is also smitten with Nayland Smith. The French have Madame Atomos, a female scientific genius who launches a war of terror on the United States, to revenge the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. She uses various plagues and other bio-weapons, as well as other advanced weapons. She is also modeled somewhat on Fu Manchu and Fah lo Sue, though more Fu than Fah. You can add the Valkyrie, from the Airboy comics, to this list, as she was also the enemy of the hero and is attracted to him. She eventually joins up with the allies, well before the Eclipse Comics revival.
The Cheetah was another with a personality disorder, originally, and Baroness Paula Von Gunther started out as a nasty piece of work, an agent of the Nazis, before that was altered to show that she had been forced to aid them, while they held her daughter. That kind of ignored early appearances where she tortures her own female slaves.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Oct 5, 2017 21:40:45 GMT -5
Wildcat.
SPEAKING of Haney's B & B - one of my five favorite superhero comics ever - Ruby Ryder is a good trend-bucking example. She's a self-made millionaire and her only motivation was getting what she wanted. (Sometimes by using hypnotic lemonade.)
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Post by Deleted on Oct 5, 2017 22:13:37 GMT -5
By the time she first met the Dark Knight in Batman #1, she had achieved international notoriety. This revised origin only pertained to the Earth-Two version, her Earth-One counterpart retaining the original, amnesiac stewardess origin up through the Crisis on Infinite Earths. Post-Crisis, Frank Miller made her a prostitute, a development that still leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Cei-U! Here, kitty, kitty, kitty! You telling me that Catwoman was made into a Prostitute by Frank Miller ... what's on Earth did Frank was thinking and I didn't know that. This information that you shared here is unbelievable. I'm totally shocked by all this. Thanks for telling me this and this made me very sad.
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Post by berkley on Oct 6, 2017 1:33:46 GMT -5
One of my favourites is Umar. I usually dislike characters derived from pre-existing villains or heroes already popular or at least somewhat well-known (to fans, of course), but I think Umar, though conceived as the sister of Dormammu, who was already the major Dr. Strange villain, has always enjoyed such an independent persona and look that she escaped this pitfall. Also, she was never just an adjunct to Dormammu: sometimes allies, sometimes rivals, they are both very strong characters.
Morgan la Fay is such a powerful figure of Arthurian legend and world literature, I always think Marvel could have done a better job with her. But I have the same feeling about most of Marvel's and DC's versions of characters from myth and legend. Perhaps this is inevitable, as most of them are too complex or ambiguous to fit into the simple good guys/bad guys world of superhero comics, Morgan la Fay being a prime example - and Circe another one, since that name was mentioned earlier.
I didn't know about Poison Ivy being driven by ecological or environmental concerns: they should go back to that, since superhero comics are supposed to be so sophisticated these days. Why should she be a villain at all? Maybe Batman, or rather Bruce Wayne, would be the villain in this relation, as a rich industrialist some of whose various companies probably cause all kinds of environmental harm.
Again, not knowing some of the DC characters too well I can't say much about her, but I've always loved the name "Star Sapphire": so much so that if I ever get around to reading any of her comics it's going to be hard to meet my expectations!
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