Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Jan 14, 2018 3:49:50 GMT -5
I thought this thread might be about the conception May "Mayday" Parker given the thread title. , the new X-rated comic from Marvel. Suggested for Mature Readers. |
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Post by MDG on Jan 14, 2018 8:57:44 GMT -5
I thought this thread might be about the conception May "Mayday" Parker given the thread title. , the new X-rated comic from Marvel. Suggested for Mature Readers. Well, at least we got this far before someone brought that up.  |
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Post by chaykinstevens on Jan 14, 2018 15:33:14 GMT -5
pinkfloydsound17 - Amazing Spider-Man #224-252* (the Roger Stern run, featuring the 1st appearance of the Black Cat, along with classics like "Nothing Can Stop the Juggernaut" & "The Kid Who Collects Spider-Man")
The Black Cat's first appearance was in Amazing Spider-Man #194 by Wolfman and Pollard. |
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Post by berkley on Jan 14, 2018 18:27:03 GMT -5
I really feel that the first 200 issues of Amazing Spider-Man are excellent. A few slow single issues but for the most part, it weaves a strong story. After 200 there is a 20 issue stretch where I feel it weakened before picking back up again with the Juggernaut story and Hobgoblin soon after that. I agree about ASM #1-200 and attendant annuals, Amazing Fantasy #15 etc. That run is one of the greatest coming of age stories in comics or any other medium. What happened after #200? I was just looking at comics.org and it seems that #200 came in the middle of the Wolfman/Pollard run, which I have not read. Was it after they left that the series took a downturn? |
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Post by pinkfloydsound17 on Jan 14, 2018 18:53:18 GMT -5
I agree about ASM #1-200 and attendant annuals, Amazing Fantasy #15 etc. That run is one of the greatest coming of age stories in comics or any other medium. What happened after #200? I was just looking at comics.org and it seems that #200 came in the middle of the Wolfman/Pollard run, which I have not read. Was it after they left that the series took a downturn?
For me, there was just not a lot of value or interest. A lot of simple storylines that were ho hum. Punisher and Black Cat appear, then you have some filler issues before Madame Web (who I dislike) appears in #210. She doesn't really have a purpose and for me, it was a weak underlying storyline for the next chunk of issues. Hydro-Man also makes his debut in #212, another lame villain in my eyes. He merges with Sandman a few issues later to form a stupid muck monster. Then you have more random stories with lame villains (Ramrod, Red Ghost). Finally, #229 rolls around telling a good battle story involving Spidey and Juggernaut. Madame Web is in this too and is central to it...so I suppose the previous issues could serve as a lead up to this moment but to me, it is more about Spidey facing a far superior foe than it is about him saving Madame Web. After that concludes in #230, there are some 1-2 issue storylines that are okay before Hobgoblin bursts on the scene and becomes a solid focal point in #239 through on to #289.
Denny O'Neill does a stretch of the writing between #200-220. Eventually, Stern comes on and if he writes it, it is much better IMO. I just feel it was a time period where Spidey bounced around a bit between some different writers so there was not real coherent story or anything worthwhile. They tended to use villains I am not a huge fan of too, which hurts this stretch. Once Stern is on board full time, the writing and storytelling improves tremendously IMO.
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Jan 14, 2018 19:12:32 GMT -5
pinkfloydsound17 - Amazing Spider-Man #224-252* (the Roger Stern run, featuring the 1st appearance of the Black Cat, along with classics like "Nothing Can Stop the Juggernaut" & "The Kid Who Collects Spider-Man")
The Black Cat's first appearance was in Amazing Spider-Man #194 by Wolfman and Pollard. Ah, yes...you're right. My mistake. |
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Jan 14, 2018 19:33:21 GMT -5
^^ Pretty much what pinkfloydsound17 said, berkley. Plus, without spoiling things, something happens in ASM issue #200 that brings the adventures of Peter Parker nicely full circle with the events of Amazing Fantasy #15. It's just a perfect stopping point. Like, the adventures of Spider-Man could've ended there, although obviously they didn't -- and make no mistake, there are definitely lots of purple patches after issue #200 and right up 'til the whole "Brand New Day" clusterf**k really. But there are barren periods too, with the title just ticking over. ASM #1-200 is all killer, no filler, in my humble opinion and can also kind of function as one complete, extended story arc. |
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Post by Phil Maurice on Jan 14, 2018 20:14:08 GMT -5
I don't know. It seems a little dismissive. There were some great Miller/Milgrom covers during that period. #211 has a terrific battle between Spidey and The Sub-Mariner that leads into a memorable encounter with the Frightful Four. Their attack results in Namor having Peter's Spider-Sense transferred to him briefly, which provides a nice little sequence that we'd never seen before. The more interesting stories may be said to have been occurring over in "Spectacular," where the Gibbon and the Beetle return, along with Jack O'Lantern, the hapless Ringer, and the "Martians" from ASM #2! Peter's colleagues at ESU are interesting as well, and serve to ground the series, as well as offer some comic relief and unexpected pathos. |
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Post by comicsandwho on Jan 14, 2018 20:30:33 GMT -5
Was the Death of Gwen Stacy in #121-122 just a two-issue story on its own, or was it the climax of a longer storyline? No, it wasn't really the climax to a longer storyline. It is pretty much a stand alone two-parter. I mean, obviously it's the culmination of the Norman Osborn/Green Goblin story that had been going on intermittently since Amazing Spider-Man #14 in 1964, but Spidey was in Canada facing off against the Hulk just prior to the Death of Gwen Stacy story. So no, it is basically stand-alone. There have been some who considered # 123 as the 'third part' of the story, because it opens by noting the funerals of Gwen and Norman, and, with Spider-Man considered the prime suspect in the murder, that drives Jonah to hire Luke Cage to bring him in. Spidey has problems with the police for several years after this, as a result of Norman's death. |
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Jan 14, 2018 20:46:22 GMT -5
I don't know. It seems a little dismissive. There were some great Miller/Milgrom covers during that period. #211 has a terrific battle between Spidey and The Sub-Mariner that leads into a memorable encounter with the Frightful Four. Their attack results in Namor having Peter's Spider-Sense transferred to him briefly, which provides a nice little sequence that we'd never seen before. The more interesting stories may be said to have been occurring over in "Spectacular," where the Gibbon and the Beetle return, along with Jack O'Lantern, the hapless Ringer, and the "Martians" from ASM #2! Peter's colleagues at ESU are interesting as well, and serve to ground the series, as well as offer some comic relief and unexpected pathos. Oh yeah, don't get me wrong, there's plenty of good stuff post-#200 (and lots to like in Peter Parker: The Spectacular Spider-Man too), but for me personally, Amazing Spider-Man was never as consistent from #201 onward as it was between #1-200. |
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Jan 14, 2018 20:57:02 GMT -5
There have been some who considered # 123 as the 'third part' of the story, because it opens by noting the funerals of Gwen and Norman, and, with Spider-Man considered the prime suspect in the murder, that drives Jonah to hire Luke Cage to bring him in. That's interesting, but myself, I don't consider ASM #123 to be part of the Death of Gwen Stacy. Sure, it deals with the fall out from Norman and Gwen's death, but that's just part and parcel of serial superhero comics -- especially one as soap opera-like as Spider-Man. The two-part Death of Gwen Stacy arc is clearly done with Norman being impaled on his own glider at the end of #122, and, just as importantly, Mary Jane stopping by Peter's pad to console him (a real turning point in their relationship). The real focus of ASM #123, on the other hand, is Spidey's clash with Luke Cage. Spidey has problems with the police for several years after this, as a result of Norman's death. Well, to be fair, Spidey had been hounded on and off by the police since the Lee/Ditko era. |
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Post by comicsandwho on Jan 14, 2018 21:09:25 GMT -5
There have been some who considered # 123 as the 'third part' of the story, because it opens by noting the funerals of Gwen and Norman, and, with Spider-Man considered the prime suspect in the murder, that drives Jonah to hire Luke Cage to bring him in. That's interesting, but myself, I don't consider ASM #123 to be part of the Death of Gwen Stacy. Sure, it deals with the fall out from Norman and Gwen's death, but that's just part and parcel of serial superhero comics -- especially one as soap opera-like as Spider-Man. The two-part Death of Gwen Stacy arc is clearly done with Norman being impaled on his own glider at the end of #122, and, just as importantly, Mary Jane stopping by Peter's pad to console him (a real turning point in their relationship). The real focus of ASM #123, on the other hand, is Spidey's clash with Luke Cage. Spidey has problems with the police for several years after this, as a result of Norman's death. Well, to be fair, Spidey had been hounded on and off by the police since the Lee/Ditko era. That's true, but it becomes a bit more of a cliche by the time it's resolved(I think in # 186, when the D.A. drops the charges), with nearly every interaction of 'cop and Spidey' resulting in the cops shooting, and Spider-man webbing. Stan used those scenes more sparingly, and even Conway gave a cop some sympathetic dialogue when Soider-man lashes out right after Gwen's death. As a young reader, one of my first Spider-man issues(in the Wolfman and Pollard days) had this 'the cops want to arrest Spider-Man' thing I didn't fully understand for a while, til I explored how Stan and Gerry Conway got things to that point. |
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Post by pinkfloydsound17 on Jan 14, 2018 21:26:56 GMT -5
There is some fine artwork from #200 on, don't get me wrong. And some of the stories were better than others (the Miller one was fine). I am just saying, Spidey flowed so nicely during that 1-200 arc. Ditko's stuff is classic art and to me, great storytelling. Then Romita comes on and you get the great Goblin story, the evolution of Parker's character and life outside of Spider-Man, a tragic death, his arch nememis' son taking the mantle of his arch enemy, a crazy but fun clone story, the eventual return of his arch nemesis and a final culmination of it all in #200. Small one shot stories and arcs that just fit nicely.
I am not saying don't read anything after #200, just personally feel they are more forgettable stories (again, artwork on many of them is still really good).
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Jan 15, 2018 1:06:14 GMT -5
From about 1982 until 1985 or so, Peter Parker: The Spectacular Spider-Man was probably a better read than Amazing Spider-Man overall. There! I said it. Oops! Wrong thread.  |
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Post by Ozymandias on Jan 15, 2018 14:56:16 GMT -5
From about 1982 until 1985 or so, Peter Parker: The Spectacular Spider-Man was probably a better read than Amazing Spider-Man overall. There! I said it. Oops! Wrong thread. You do realise, that the first half of that time period, covers all of the Stern run in ASM, right? |
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