Confessor
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Not Bucky O'Hare!
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Post by Confessor on Jan 15, 2018 16:40:53 GMT -5
From about 1982 until 1985 or so, Peter Parker: The Spectacular Spider-Man was probably a better read than Amazing Spider-Man overall. There! I said it. Oops! Wrong thread.  You do realise, that the first half of that time period, covers all of the Stern run in ASM, right? I do -- and the Stern run is very good, no doubts there -- but, I dunno, I enjoyed PP:SSM more than ASM back when those issues were coming out in the early 80s. As an adult reader, I think I still do prefer them. The heavier focus on Peter Parker's social life and the soap opera elements therein is definitely something I really enjoy in PP:SSM. Plus, I dunno, it just seemed a little grittier than ASM. Never mind that though! Here's an opinion that'll put the cat amongst the pigeons: although it's regarded as a classic, I've always thought that "The Kid Who Collects Spider-Man" is a load of overly-sentimental, toe-curlingly schmaltzy tosh. It's the very definition of an overrated comic. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to leave the forum before I get lynched. |
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Post by pinkfloydsound17 on Jan 15, 2018 16:43:51 GMT -5
Overrated stuff can still be good. It is good because of the humanization of the story, not because of the artwork or much else. Which is what it was designed to be.
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Post by tarkintino on Jan 15, 2018 17:45:02 GMT -5
I don't know. It seems a little dismissive. There were some great Miller/Milgrom covers during that period. #211 has a terrific battle between Spidey and The Sub-Mariner that leads into a memorable encounter with the Frightful Four. Their attack results in Namor having Peter's Spider-Sense transferred to him briefly, which provides a nice little sequence that we'd never seen before. The more interesting stories may be said to have been occurring over in "Spectacular," where the Gibbon and the Beetle return, along with Jack O'Lantern, the hapless Ringer, and the "Martians" from ASM #2! Peter's colleagues at ESU are interesting as well, and serve to ground the series, as well as offer some comic relief and unexpected pathos. Oh yeah, don't get me wrong, there's plenty of good stuff post-#200 (and lots to like in Peter Parker: The Spectacular Spider-Man too), but for me personally, Amazing Spider-Man was never as consistent from #201 onward as it was between #1-200. ...and its so rare for any long running comic series to have a 200 issue run that's largely strong-to-classic, with only a few creative hiccups along the way. I cannot think of another series with that kind of run. |
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Post by badwolf on Jan 15, 2018 17:58:52 GMT -5
You do realise, that the first half of that time period, covers all of the Stern run in ASM, right? I do -- and the Stern run is very good, no doubts there -- but, I dunno, I enjoyed PP:SSM more than ASM back when those issues were coming out in the early 80s. As an adult reader, I think I still do prefer them. The heavier focus on Peter Parker's social life and the soap opera elements therein is definitely something I really enjoy in PP:SSM. Plus, I dunno, it just seemed a little grittier than ASM. Never mind that though! Here's an opinion that'll put the cat amongst the pigeons: although it's regarded as a classic, I've always thought that "The Kid Who Collects Spider-Man" is a load of overly-sentimental, toe-curlingly schmaltzy tosh. It's the very definition of an overrated comic. Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to leave the forum before I get lynched. I feel the same way on both counts. |
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Jan 15, 2018 19:09:07 GMT -5
Counterpoint: I thought ASM was fairly weak all through the '70s. I'm starting to warm up to Andru as superhero artist a teeny little bit - he's great at spacial relationships and placing characters in an environment that has scope and depth. I'm not sure anyone drew tall building that FELT tall as well as Andru... But he really needed an inker that would take a gallon of spackle to his wonky imperfections (Joe Sinnott) or someone who would abstractly highlight those same imperfections (Bill Everett!!!) and he never had that on ASM. He was a natural cartoonist trying to draw like a John Buscema style action illustrator, and it just never worked for me. I'd also argue that there is some great, great stuff after the Clone Saga - with the Marcos Martin/Mark Waid issues particularly being as good as anything the title has seen in the last 40 years. But mostly you should just read Marvel Team-Up. 100% quality reading from the first issue to the last.* * May not contain actual quality reading. |
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Post by pinkfloydsound17 on Jan 15, 2018 19:30:37 GMT -5
^Blasphemer! The 70's were a time of wonder for Spidey
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Post by Icctrombone on Jan 15, 2018 21:03:02 GMT -5
I do -- and the Stern run is very good, no doubts there -- but, I dunno, I enjoyed PP:SSM more than ASM back when those issues were coming out in the early 80s. As an adult reader, I think I still do prefer them. The heavier focus on Peter Parker's social life and the soap opera elements therein is definitely something I really enjoy in PP:SSM. Plus, I dunno, it just seemed a little grittier than ASM. Never mind that though! Here's an opinion that'll put the cat amongst the pigeons: although it's regarded as a classic, I've always thought that "The Kid Who Collects Spider-Man" is a load of overly-sentimental, toe-curlingly schmaltzy tosh. It's the very definition of an overrated comic.
Now, if you'll excuse me, I have to leave the forum before I get lynched. I feel the same way on both counts. Me three! I don't see the specialness of that story. |
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Post by Ozymandias on Jan 16, 2018 3:53:16 GMT -5
You do realise, that the first half of that time period, covers all of the Stern run in ASM, right? As an adult reader, I think I still do prefer them. The heavier focus on Peter Parker's social life and the soap opera elements therein is definitely something I really enjoy in PP:SSM. Plus, I dunno, it just seemed a little grittier than ASM. Never mind that though! Here's an opinion that'll put the cat amongst the pigeons: although it's regarded as a classic, I've always thought that "The Kid Who Collects Spider-Man" is a load of overly-sentimental, toe-curlingly schmaltzy tosh. It's the very definition of an overrated comic. We clearly look for different things in entertainment. When a TV show starts declining into a soap opera, that's usually when I cut it out, same thing for a comic that feels like it can't offer anything else. I rated it as a 7/10 almost four years ago, and still do. Is that too much? |
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Jan 16, 2018 8:03:11 GMT -5
We clearly look for different things in entertainment. When a TV show starts declining into a soap opera, that's usually when I cut it out Well, I'd argue that Spider-Man was always Marvel's biggest soap opera. That aspect of the comics is absolutely intrinsic. ...same thing for a comic that feels like it can't offer anything else. It wasn't that "it couldn't offer anything else", it was a case of the soap opera elements being precisely what PP:SSM was designed to focus on. I guess you either like that or you don't. I do. For "The Kid Who Collects Spider-Man"? I'd say so. I mean, it's a well drawn and reasonably well written comic. It's just that it comes off as an inessential misfire to me, being much too mawkish and too manipulatively maudlin for my tastes. |
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Post by tarkintino on Jan 16, 2018 10:57:42 GMT -5
Counterpoint: I thought ASM was fairly weak all through the '70s. How so? The decade began with powerful, landmark stories such as: 1.The death and aftermath of Captain Stacy--along with Peter's intensifying guilt. 2.The Harry Osborn drug plot, coupled with Norman's return as the Goblin and his breakdown. Moving ahead.... 3.A number of great Doctor Octopus stories involving Aunt May. 4.Obviously, the deaths of Osborn & Gwen, and the aftermath. 5.The introduction of the Punisher and Jackal, and with the Jackal, the original Clone storyline--and its bitter resolution to the idea of Peter ever having a second chance with Gwen. 6.The Morbius & the Man Wolf arcs (very inventive spins on vampirism and lycanthropy, respectively). 7.The entire deranged Harry/2nd Goblin arc. 8.Peter--hard luck as ever--fails to graduate college. Spider-Man was already popular going into the 70s, but the title truly became one of the few "must read" titles of the 70s, all to follow the highs and numerous emotional lows of the hero. He was unique among superhero characters, and it was in this period that cemented his status as the drama-battered hereo others have been trying to copy (in one way or another) ever since. Andru had an occasional great inker in John Romita, who took the gangly edge from Andru's often unappealing figures. |
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Post by Ozymandias on Jan 17, 2018 6:00:37 GMT -5
When I talk about "a comic that feels like it can't offer anything else", I mean while the same creative team stays on board. In the case of PPSM, Stern proved the series could offer more, regardless of the original design. ASM as an intrinsic soap opera? I don't know about that, I'd say there were other elements at play (specially with Ditko). So a 7/10 is too much for "The Kid Who Collects Spider-Man"? Why? What exactly do you mean by manipulatively maudlin? |
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Confessor
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Not Bucky O'Hare!
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Post by Confessor on Jan 17, 2018 17:08:58 GMT -5
ASM as an intrinsic soap opera? I don't know about that, I'd say there were other elements at play (specially with Ditko). I didn't say ASM was intrinsically a soap opera. I said that soap opera elements were an intrinsic part of what makes Spider-Man Spider-Man. This was every bit as true during the Ditko era as it was later. Right from Amazing Fantasy #15 we see Peter Parker the outcast, who none of the girls like -- there's teen angst in Spider-Man right from the get go. So a 7/10 is too much for "The Kid Who Collects Spider-Man"? Why? Well, for the reasons I stated. That's my just opinion. I don't think it's all that good of a story. I think it's overrated. What exactly do you mean by manipulatively maudlin? It's very manipulatively written. It wants to pull the reader's heartstrings, but it does so cheaply, by layering on the melodrama and fake poignancy with a trowel. It's the comic book equivalent of a song like "He Stopped Loving Her Today" by George Jones. Like I say, maudlin and manipulatively so. |
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Jan 17, 2018 18:22:27 GMT -5
What exactly do you mean by manipulatively maudlin? It's very manipulatively written. It wants to pull the reader's heartstrings, but it does so cheaply, by layering on the melodrama and fake poignancy with a trowel. It's the comic book equivalent of a song like "He Stopped Loving Her Today" by George Jones. Like I say, maudlin and manipulatively so. Hey...let's not be pullin' The Possum into this. |
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,220
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Post by Confessor on Jan 17, 2018 19:21:41 GMT -5
It's very manipulatively written. It wants to pull the reader's heartstrings, but it does so cheaply, by layering on the melodrama and fake poignancy with a trowel. It's the comic book equivalent of a song like "He Stopped Loving Her Today" by George Jones. Like I say, maudlin and manipulatively so. Hey...let's not be pullin' The Possum into this. Sorry, sorry. My bad. |
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Post by brutalis on Jan 18, 2018 8:19:02 GMT -5
I am with Confessor on Spidey's soap opera aspects. Spider-Man by Lee/Ditko began this style of Spidey character side story lines that wouldn't necessarily be a big draw but eventually tied into the main story and then Lee/Romita carried this to new heights once Pete went in to college. This is the highlight of true soap opera in any teenager's life and Spidey comics in particular hit the right mark of ongoing connected story drama/angst and the superhero action/adventure. After 200+ issues Spidey had grown and lost a lot of that kind of writing and Peter Parker the Spectacular Spider-Man was meant to revive and fulfill that aspect once more. Which is why I enjoy all those earlier Spider-Man and Spectactular issues. Spidey has one of the largest and varied supporting casts out there and until recently most were normal human's without super powers and it was their interaction and involvement in Pete's world that helped make those series stand out. The life of Peter Parker mix with Spidey highlights all the best there is of soap opera and mimics real life and family interactions. We can relate and understand the growing pains and agony and joys inherit in Pete's life and wish we could spin a web and swing high among the skyscrapers to escape our lives. |
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