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Post by coke & comics on Jan 27, 2018 14:10:12 GMT -5
I wanted to talk about Black Panther in preparation for the upcoming film. He's got a bit of a convoluted and incongruous history, as happens with characters who float around without their own title. I've been reading through his early appearances and wanted to discuss some. He's introduced in Fantastic Four and occasionally shows up there, then teams up with Captain America in Tales of Suspense. Then he joins the Avengers and is a principle character for almost 80 issues. This is the hardest part of his history to make sense of. Thomas barely tries. Christopher Priest retroactively explains it all 30 years later. While an Avenger, he makes the occasional guest appearance. Daredevil, Sub-Mariner, Marvel Team-Up. He has a notable solo story battling Dr. Doom in Astonishing Tales. The he finally gets his own stories in Jungle Action under the pen of Don McGregor. There's been some discussion of Black Panther before. Reptisaurus started a review thread, which started off strong then disappeared. Maybe the upcoming movie will convince him to return: www.classiccomics.org/thread/3351/black-panther-review-threadAnd shaxper gave us an overview of Jungle Action here: www.classiccomics.org/post/149787/thread and of Black Panther's ongoing here: www.classiccomics.org/post/151276/threadJungle Action ended unceremoniously in the middle of the Panther vs. Klan arc. Ed Hannigan would eventually continue the story (or hisown version of it) in Black Panther's ongoing series and the finally finish it in the pages of Marvel Premiere. That Hannigan arc tops of the series that had up to that point been a Jack Kirby vehicle. He's then back with the Avengers for a bit and guest-starring in the odd title here and there, but mostly spends the '80s in hibernation until finally getting a miniseries in the late '80s penned by Peter Gillis. McGregor returns to the character in the '90s with Marvel Comics Presents and then a prestige format miniseries Panther's Prey. Black Panther. He also gets a solo short in Solo Avengers #19. Then it's more bouncing around. Hanging out with the Avengers again for a bit. A Spider-Man crossover called Vibranium Vendetta. Let's not speak of Marvel UK in the '90s or Fantastic Force. Then he finally gets some respect with the Christopher Priest series, which I think was the first time a black writer took a stab at him. (Correct me if I'm wrong there). This would be followed by the Reginald Hudlin series and then more recently the Ta-Nehisi Coates run. I'm going to see how much of this I can read through before the film opens in a few weeks and I'd like to chat about it. But without having the time for a formal review thread. |
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Post by coke & comics on Jan 27, 2018 14:25:23 GMT -5
Thoughts on his early Lee/Kirby appearances.
Fantastic Four #52-54
Fantastic Four #56 (cameo)
Fantastic Four #60 (cameo)
Fantastic Four annual 5
Tales of Suspense #97-99
Captain America #100
As I went through, I had two guiding questions I wanted to understand.
* Is this an African king or a New York superhero?
* What's up with Wakanda? Is it a secret land or is just its technology a secret? How long has it been technologically advanced? How technologically advanced is it?
The Lee/Kirby appearances certainly focus on him as an African king. His responsibility is Wakanda. He has a dual role as chieftan and protector, but these are compatible. We see him communicating via videoscreen with the FF, sharing technology with his new friends. But if he is involved in a fight directly, it takes place in Wakanda. Now, for a hidden land, Wakanda got attacked in pretty short order by Klaw, Psycho-Man and Zemo.
My impression from Fantastic Four #53 is that the sci/fi technological prowess of Wakanda is brand new and all thanks to T'Challa. He traveled the world to educate himself, sold vibranium technology to become the world's wealthiest man, and singlehandedly turned Wakanda into a mechanical jungle. This question isn't dwelled on but Black Panther briefly explains Wakanda and that seems to be the gist of it. I see no hint that Wakanda's technological advancement goes back centuries.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Jan 27, 2018 15:16:30 GMT -5
Thoughts on his early Lee/Kirby appearances. Fantastic Four #52-54 Fantastic Four #56 (cameo) Fantastic Four #60 (cameo) Tales of Suspense #97-99 Captain America #100 As I went through, I had two guiding questions I wanted to understand. * Is this an African king or a New York superhero? * What's up with Wakanda? Is it a secret land or is just its technology a secret? How long has it been technologically advanced? How technologically advanced is it? Dunno about the second question, but... I think, at first, he alternates between being an African King and, basically, Tarzan. Overwhelmingly in the Stan Lee edited Atlas comics of the '50s, black people appeared in Sheena/Tarzan/Mowgli influenced Jungle comics. The most obvious and direct descendant being the Waku: Prince of the Bantu strips in Jungle Tales. The Panther was introduced as a high-tech afro-futurist king, but the "Black Panther" who re-appeared in Tales of Suspense with Captain America could be replaced with any of a dozen Tarzan clones and it wouldn't have mattered. |
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jan 27, 2018 19:22:38 GMT -5
* What's up with Wakanda? Is it a secret land or is just its technology a secret? How long has it been technologically advanced? How technologically advanced is it? The Lee/Kirby appearances certainly focus on him as an African king. His responsibility is Wakanda. He has a dual role as chieftan and protector, but these are compatible. We see him communicating via videoscreen with the FF, sharing technology with his new friends. But if he is involved in a fight directly, it takes place in Wakanda. Now, for a hidden land, Wakanda got attacked in pretty short order by Klaw, Psycho-Man and Zemo. My impression from Fantastic Four #53 is that the sci/fi technological prowess of Wakanda is brand new and all thanks to T'Challa. He traveled the world to educate himself, sold vibranium technology to become the world's wealthiest man, and singlehandedly turned Wakanda into a mechanical jungle. This question isn't dwelled on but Black Panther briefly explains Wakanda and that seems to be the gist of it. I see no hint that Wakanda's technological advancement goes back centuries. That was definitely the way Wakanda was presented for decades; one of the main themes from the McGregor run was how Wakandans had a hard time adjusting to the new ways of life brought about by technology. Heck, they even had a hard time accepting modern medicine. Then the country was retconned into having been technologically advanced for centuries. I actually like the new version better, but it’s a clearly new interpretation. If I ever want to care about Marvel continuity again, I’ll pretend that Wakanda’s history was changed during one of those several reboots-not really reboots that the MU went through ove4bthe years. |
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Post by berkley on Jan 27, 2018 21:51:27 GMT -5
One of my favourite Marvel characters in general from the time I first encountered him (I think in that FF Annual with the Inhumans and Psycho-man ... I'll have to check the chronology there). More specifically, my favourite Avenger when I was a kid reading the Thomas/Buscema era issues. I was and am a big fan of both the McGregor and the Kirby series from the 70s.
After that, I lost track of the character, along with all the other Marvel characters I used to like, so I know very little about the later incarnations. Nothing I've read about the Priest or the current Coates series really sparks my interest but I might try something one of these days. I'll definitely see the movie, though.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2018 23:59:04 GMT -5
The Priest run on Panther is one of my all time favorite Marvel runs.
Based solely on what's available on Marvel Unlimited (and they juice up what's available for characters with upcoming movies) the Mcgergor run has been largely forgotten. Neither the Jungle Action issues nor the MCP issues are available. Everything else is though. I really like the Coates series currently (it's one of 2 Marvel titles I am staying current with via print subscriptions). I haven't read much of the Hudlin series (though I have seen a chunk of the animated series on BET based on that run), but I just got the first volume of that run form the library to read before the movie comes out. I also haven't read the series where Shuri, T'Challa sister becomes the Panther for a bit while T'Challa was engaged elsehwere (I think he took on another identity for a while or some such coming out of the Shadowland cross-over and these is a short run after that which featured art by Francavilla that looks somewhat interesting as well.
Another chunk of what is defining Panther currently is what Hickman did with the character in New Avengers and in the Infinity event where Wakanda was invaded by Thanos, and the events of Avengers vs. X-Men which featured an Atlantean invasion of Wakanda and a deadly flood of the nation as part of the invasion. These events are looming large in the current Panther series by Coates as part of the background fabric of Wakanda in the series. I have read some of these but don't remember much of it (or didn't until events int he current series jogged my memory.
Also of note, the current Panther series has a lively letters page in most issues, done by Coates himself, with discussion of a wide range of matters both related to the Panther series and things tangential to it. Letters pages are a rarity these days and ones done by the writer themselves even more so, but it is nice to see Coates doing this.
-M
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Post by nero9000 on Jan 28, 2018 5:20:43 GMT -5
An underused character for much of Marvel's publishing history. I can't believe how Marvel almost completely boycotted him in the 80s and 90s. The Panther received more respect early on, but op is right in that there was a weird duality about him. Having him stay at Wakanda was too restricting, but when he was at NY he didn't act all that regal. I felt with his pedigree he totally should have been the leader of the Avengers during the time the big three weren't regular members. I guess the world wasn't ready yet.
As for Wakanda, Lee and Kirby got it right the first time. Having the technological advancement be a result of Vibranium-based wealth is logical and believable. An ancient master race of geniuses in the middle of nowhere is ridiculous.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2018 8:07:33 GMT -5
Fantastic Four #54 Fantastic Four #52-54 ... I've would love to get my hands on this issue! ... Best Black Panther Storyline!
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Post by coke & comics on Jan 28, 2018 11:51:12 GMT -5
An underused character for much of Marvel's publishing history. I can't believe how Marvel almost completely boycotted him in the 80s and 90s. The Panther received more respect early on, but op is right in that there was a weird duality about him. Having him stay at Wakanda was too restricting, but when he was at NY he didn't act all that regal. I felt with his pedigree he totally should have been the leader of the Avengers during the time the big three weren't regular members. I guess the world wasn't ready yet. As for Wakanda, Lee and Kirby got it right the first time. Having the technological advancement be a result of Vibranium-based wealth is logical and believable. An ancient master race of geniuses in the middle of nowhere is ridiculous. They were still doing the rotating chairperson thing and he was the chair pretty early on in his Avengers tenure. For example in issue 63, after he had joined in issue 52. |
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Post by berkley on Jan 29, 2018 2:21:59 GMT -5
I just recently found out that Don McGregor wrote another multi-issue Panther story in the pages of Marvel Showcase in the 80s - and with artwork by none other than Gene Colan. That's pretty exciting news to me, though of course there's no guarantee that McGregor's second go at the character lived up to the standard set by his first. And though Colan is one of my favourite artists, I've sometimes felt that he was getting a little tired of superhero comics by the late 70s, so I'm not sure how his work on this series shaped up. But I like even middling Colan more than the best efforts of most other artists, so that's not a great concern.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jan 29, 2018 6:47:55 GMT -5
I just recently found out that Don McGregor wrote another multi-issue Panther story in the pages of Marvel Showcase in the 80s - and with artwork by none other than Gene Colan. That's pretty exciting news to me, though of course there's no guarantee that McGregor's second go at the character lived up to the standard set by his first. And though Colan is one of my favourite artists, I've sometimes felt that he was getting a little tired of superhero comics by the late 70s, so I'm not sure how his work on this series shaped up. But I like even middling Colan more than the best efforts of most other artists, so that's not a great concern. I only have a few of those MCP issues and the Panther stories weren’t in the league of McGregor’s original run... but I was still pretty miffed when the Essential Black Panther book followed Pather’s rage with Kirby’s run instead of Panther’s quest. Thematically it would have made much more sense. As I recall, it was about T’Challa looking for his long-lost mother in Apartheid-era South Africa. |
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Post by Hoosier X on Jan 29, 2018 13:49:57 GMT -5
One of my co-workers is a big fan of the Marvel movies and he asked me which Black Panther stories to read. I guess he has A LOT of Marvel stories in some digital or online form and can just dig in anywhere.
Of course I suggested Panther's Rage! As he's used to modern comics, it seemed to take him a week or so to get through the first issue of Panther's Rage. But he finally had some free time and read up to Jungle Action #17 and #18, and he's kind of glad he stuck with it because now he knows about Killmonger, who is apparently the villain in the movie.
Now I'm trying to get him to read Kirby's 1970s Black Panther series!
And I found this on YouTube:
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Post by Rob Allen on Jan 29, 2018 20:04:03 GMT -5
The next issue of Marvel Comics Digest (due on supermarket checkout stands in February) is called "Avengers featuring Black Panther". The next-issue ad in the last digest showed the Panther with Cap, Iron Man, Thor, Hulk, Black Widow and Ant-Man. No sign of Hawkeye, Vision or Scarlet Witch. Oh, it looks like that ad is actually the cover of digest #5:  The usual pattern in these digests is: something from the 1960s (one or more issues), then something from the 1970s, then a lot of modern-looking stuff. I've been wondering what they're going to choose for this digest. Since it's supposed to be an Avengers book, will they start with an FF story or skip that and go with an Avengers issue? And for the 70s, will they put in McGregor, Kirby, both, or neither? Here are a couple of Avengers issues that I wouldn't be surprised to see:   |
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Jan 31, 2018 21:21:06 GMT -5
There’s an article on *ahem* another site that claims the Priest Black Panther is the first essential run for the character.
Oh, brother.
That’s like saying the Waid & Wieringo run on Fantastic Four was the first time the book was good.
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Post by berkley on Jan 31, 2018 21:28:01 GMT -5
There’s an article on *ahem* another site that claims the Priest Black Panther is the first essential run for the character. Oh, brother. That’s like saying the Waid & Wieringo run on Fantastic Four was the first time the book was good. How silly. Obviously the movie itself will be the first time anything worthwhile will have been done with the character. |
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