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Post by String on Feb 2, 2018 12:41:38 GMT -5
The Priest run on Panther is one of my all time favorite Marvel runs. Based solely on what's available on Marvel Unlimited (and they juice up what's available for characters with upcoming movies) the Mcgergor run has been largely forgotten. Neither the Jungle Action issues nor the MCP issues are available. Everything else is though. I really like the Coates series currently (it's one of 2 Marvel titles I am staying current with via print subscriptions). I haven't read much of the Hudlin series (though I have seen a chunk of the animated series on BET based on that run), but I just got the first volume of that run form the library to read before the movie comes out. I also haven't read the series where Shuri, T'Challa sister becomes the Panther for a bit while T'Challa was engaged elsehwere (I think he took on another identity for a while or some such coming out of the Shadowland cross-over and these is a short run after that which featured art by Francavilla that looks somewhat interesting as well. Another chunk of what is defining Panther currently is what Hickman did with the character in New Avengers and in the Infinity event where Wakanda was invaded by Thanos, and the events of Avengers vs. X-Men which featured an Atlantean invasion of Wakanda and a deadly flood of the nation as part of the invasion. These events are looming large in the current Panther series by Coates as part of the background fabric of Wakanda in the series. I have read some of these but don't remember much of it (or didn't until events int he current series jogged my memory. Also of note, the current Panther series has a lively letters page in most issues, done by Coates himself, with discussion of a wide range of matters both related to the Panther series and things tangential to it. Letters pages are a rarity these days and ones done by the writer themselves even more so, but it is nice to see Coates doing this. -M Ah, Black Panther - The Man Without Fear. I had a print subscription to DD around the time of Shadowland (ugh) and upon the conclusion of that, the remainder of my issues on that were filled with Black Panther. Basically, he set up shop in Hell's Kitchen in DD's absence. Probably my first real exposure to T'Challa outside of FF and the Avengers and I seem to remember liking it. Francavilla's art was pretty good as well. Namor, under the influence of his Phoenix force shard, created the flood that decimated Wakanda. This lead to the animosity between T'Challa and Namor that Hickman highlighted in later issues of the New Avengers and their working together in the Illuminati. |
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Feb 2, 2018 13:07:35 GMT -5
The Priest run on Panther is one of my all time favorite Marvel runs. Based solely on what's available on Marvel Unlimited (and they juice up what's available for characters with upcoming movies) the Mcgergor run has been largely forgotten. Neither the Jungle Action issues nor the MCP issues are available. Everything else is though. I really like the Coates series currently (it's one of 2 Marvel titles I am staying current with via print subscriptions). I haven't read much of the Hudlin series (though I have seen a chunk of the animated series on BET based on that run), but I just got the first volume of that run form the library to read before the movie comes out. I also haven't read the series where Shuri, T'Challa sister becomes the Panther for a bit while T'Challa was engaged elsehwere (I think he took on another identity for a while or some such coming out of the Shadowland cross-over and these is a short run after that which featured art by Francavilla that looks somewhat interesting as well. Another chunk of what is defining Panther currently is what Hickman did with the character in New Avengers and in the Infinity event where Wakanda was invaded by Thanos, and the events of Avengers vs. X-Men which featured an Atlantean invasion of Wakanda and a deadly flood of the nation as part of the invasion. These events are looming large in the current Panther series by Coates as part of the background fabric of Wakanda in the series. I have read some of these but don't remember much of it (or didn't until events int he current series jogged my memory. Also of note, the current Panther series has a lively letters page in most issues, done by Coates himself, with discussion of a wide range of matters both related to the Panther series and things tangential to it. Letters pages are a rarity these days and ones done by the writer themselves even more so, but it is nice to see Coates doing this. -M Ah, Black Panther - The Man Without Fear. I had a print subscription to DD around the time of Shadowland (ugh) and upon the conclusion of that, the remainder of my issues on that were filled with Black Panther. Basically, he set up shop in Hell's Kitchen in DD's absence. Probably my first real exposure to T'Challa outside of FF and the Avengers and I seem to remember liking it. Francavilla's art was pretty good as well. Namor, under the influence of his Phoenix force shard, created the flood that decimated Wakanda. This lead to the animosity between T'Challa and Namor that Hickman highlighted in later issues of the New Avengers and their working together in the Illuminati. I just read Black Panther -as - Daredevil for the first time. It was a Black Panther comic. Flawed, but pretty interesting! Also read Black Panther & the Crew. I thought the main Coates Black Panther series was just incredibly boring, but this was a lot more fun and lively. I still had some trouble following the plot but the characters were lively and interesting, and their were some great action scenes. I think the problem with modern versions of the Panther is that he's really hard to make interesting and sympathetic. Priest did it by having the characters around him react to the Panther rather than through direct characterization of T'Challa, but that is... beyond the skill-set of most comic writers. I'm not sure "quiet introvert" works for superhero protagonists. Oh God, Panther vs. Namor. Of all the terrible, horrible, no good, barfy things about that era of Avengers and X-men T'Challa vs. Sub-Mariner was one of the top 300 worst. (That sounds really low, but there were SO MANY bad things. It was bad enough it could have been the worst thing about a regular, bad comic.) |
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Post by coke & comics on Feb 5, 2018 1:37:15 GMT -5
Read:
Avengers #52-54,62, skimmed others
Daredevil #52
Black Panther appears in lots of Avengers comics, almost 80 consecutive issues, so I'm going to skim them and hit the highlights.
Why is Black Panther an Avenger? Does he not have a kingdom to rule?
Avengers #52 dedicates a single panel to the question, in which Black Panther claims that serving the entire world is a greater calling than serving one kingdom.
Vision reminds us of this reasoning in #62. Also in #62 we learn Black Panther left a regent in charge, who went a bit insane. Having had to lock up his regent, it might be a good time to stay in his own kingdom, but the idea isn't even mentioned. He is immediately back in the jet with the Avengers toward New York.
He will next visit Wakanda in #72. We won't see this visit, but will get informed of it. He's back in New York by #73.
Why?
Christopher Priest offers a retroactive explanation 30 years later. An explanation that doesn't quite fit, but makes more sense than anything in these pages.
But it really makes so little sense. He has a kingdom to rule. Responsibilities.
I could get being a reserve Avenger, based in Wakanda, on call for earth-threatening emergencies. But one who lives in New York?
Thoughts?
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Post by berkley on Feb 5, 2018 1:53:31 GMT -5
I always took that as just another superhero comics convention: the ability to be in many places at once - a more extreme example of the kind of thing that had characters like Thor having all kinds of adventures on Asgard or out in some strange galaxy while at the same time having equally time-consuming adventures in the Avengers. Same with iron Man or Captain America or any other Avenger with their own solo series.
Yeah, it makes no sense, but it's comics.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2018 15:30:20 GMT -5
Marvel Unlimited just started adding the McGregor Jungle Action run. Issues 6 and 7 were added this week, and I am sure more will follow in the coming weeks.
-M
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Post by Dizzy D on Feb 6, 2018 10:23:49 GMT -5
Read: Avengers #52-54,62, skimmed others Daredevil #52 Black Panther appears in lots of Avengers comics, almost 80 consecutive issues, so I'm going to skim them and hit the highlights. Why is Black Panther an Avenger? Does he not have a kingdom to rule? Avengers #52 dedicates a single panel to the question, in which Black Panther claims that serving the entire world is a greater calling than serving one kingdom. Vision reminds us of this reasoning in #62. Also in #62 we learn Black Panther left a regent in charge, who went a bit insane. Having had to lock up his regent, it might be a good time to stay in his own kingdom, but the idea isn't even mentioned. He is immediately back in the jet with the Avengers toward New York. He will next visit Wakanda in #72. We won't see this visit, but will get informed of it. He's back in New York by #73. Why? Christopher Priest offers a retroactive explanation 30 years later. An explanation that doesn't quite fit, but makes more sense than anything in these pages. But it really makes so little sense. He has a kingdom to rule. Responsibilities. I could get being a reserve Avenger, based in Wakanda, on call for earth-threatening emergencies. But one who lives in New York? Thoughts? That's my problem with more heroes than just Black Panther. I think Coates solution is the best. For those not following current Black Panther: SPOILERS! {Spoiler: Click to show}Basically, Wakanda has now become a constitutional democracy with an interim council till the first election. T'Challa is still king, but it's a ceremonial/symbolical function. He can still advise and has a seat on the council, but has no political and military power any more. |
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Post by coke & comics on Feb 6, 2018 14:20:51 GMT -5
I always took that as just another superhero comics convention: the ability to be in many places at once - a more extreme example of the kind of thing that had characters like Thor having all kinds of adventures on Asgard or out in some strange galaxy while at the same time having equally time-consuming adventures in the Avengers. Same with iron Man or Captain America or any other Avenger with their own solo series. Yeah, it makes no sense, but it's comics. I guess my issue isn't so much the adventures with the Avengers but that he is clearly shown to be living there and in #73 calls New York his "adopted home". I could believe that in between battling super-villains with the Avengers he is back in Wakanda and we are just not seeing it. But the comics really seem to explicitly suggest otherwise. Between adventures with the Avengers, he seems to be relaxing in Avengers Mansion or prowling the streets of New York looking for trouble. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 6, 2018 14:22:43 GMT -5
I always took that as just another superhero comics convention: the ability to be in many places at once - a more extreme example of the kind of thing that had characters like Thor having all kinds of adventures on Asgard or out in some strange galaxy while at the same time having equally time-consuming adventures in the Avengers. Same with iron Man or Captain America or any other Avenger with their own solo series. Yeah, it makes no sense, but it's comics. I guess my issue isn't so much the adventures with the Avengers but that he is clearly shown to be living there and in #73 calls New York his "adopted home". I could believe that in between battling super-villains with the Avengers he is back in Wakanda and we are just not seeing it. But the comics really seem to explicitly suggest otherwise. Between adventures with the Avengers, he seems to be relaxing in Avengers Mansion or prowling the streets of New York looking for trouble. The first issues of McGregor's Jungle Action address the Panther's absence from Wakanda while he was in America. -M |
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Post by coke & comics on Feb 11, 2018 15:58:06 GMT -5
Avengers #68
Black Panther is back in Wakanda leading his people in a fight against invaders. They flee to the sea. The Avengers contact Taku to request some vibranium. Black Panther intends to return to the Avengers, but first must finish making sure his people are safe.
Avengers #73-74
Black Panther takes on the Sons of the Serpent. I'm not sure Thomas was quite up to delicately handling the subject of race issues in America in 1970. But his heart seemed in the right place. Notable for introducing Monica Lynne, Black Panther's first love interest.
And the beginning of Black Panther taking an active interest in social justice issues related to the black community in America.
Avengers #77
Black Panther reveals his uncle N'Baza ruled as regent after his father's death and that he insisted T'Challa be educated in America and Europe and also have a "legal American name": Luke Charles.
Black Panther starts using Luke Charles as his secret identity while being a school teacher.
Why? Seriously, why would he do that?
Avengers #78-79
Man-Ape returns, now allied with the Lethal Legion. Boy did Black Panther choose his regent poorly. What was N'Baza doing while Man-Ape was ruling Wakanda so badly?
Daredevil #69
Black Panther reveals he knows Daredevil's secret identity and confides in Daredevil that he is secretly Luke Charles, teacher at a "ghetto school".
He also suggests he has jeopardized his membership in the Avengers by joining Daredevil on this mission. No clarification on that point is given. He is here to help a student who has joined a gang. He is also shown prowling the streets of New York like a New York City superhero.
As with the Sons of the Serpent arc, Black Panther is showing a keen interest in African American causes.
This whole era of Black Panther feels off to me. Under Kirby, he was shown as a king who only played superhero in direct defense of Wakanda. When he aided his allies, the Fantastic Four, he did so by sending them technology, not by leaving Wakanda to join them.
And Priests "spy infiltrating the Avengers" explanation doesn't explain the Luke Charles identity.
Avengers #87
Black Panther recaps his origin, combining what we know from the pages of FF with N'Baza, B'Tumba, and, for some reason, AIM.
He claims the FF were the "first outsiders to visit". Although Klaw was there first. And in this very issue we learn AIM had also come to Wakanda. He still calls it a Hidden Kingdom, despite now having been visited by Pyscho-Man, the Inhumans, Zemo, SHIELD and the Avengers. He did not tell the Avengers the coordinates.
The implication is Wakanda has been hidden for its entire history. So while Wakanda's technological prowess is new, it remained until the 1960s a culturally uncontaminated African nation, never suffering from colonization or exploitation.
N'Baza is presented as a witch doctor and his father's council. In issue 77, he was T'Challa's uncle. B'Tumba is referred to as a childhood friend, not a cousin is here referred to as a childhood friend, not a cousin.
I think of Thomas as being continuity-obsessed but this issue seems to contradict itself, as well as words Thomas himself wrote 10 issues ago. Perhaps "uncle" was used as a term of endearment for a close adult, as opposed to a blood uncle. Perhaps in calling the FF the first visitors, he meant the first invited visitors, as opposed to the frequent invaders.
We learn of B'Tumba's friendship, betrayal, redemption and death.
N'Baza has been regent (presumably since Man-Ape stepped down), but has recently died. Black Panther considers becoming king once more or renouncing his throne.
The comic (really for the first time) presents him as conflicted between his two roles: "dual role of ghetto teacher and crime-battling panther" or "only son and true heir of the greatest chieftan of all". That does not seem like it should be a conflict. Responsibilities, man. Goliath thinks the answer is obvious. Why be a king when you can be an Avenger?
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Post by coke & comics on Feb 11, 2018 16:02:08 GMT -5
I should note Avengers #87 is the first comic to both show and name N'Baza. He was named in Avengers #77 and appears to be the witch doctor depicted briefly in Fantastic Four #53
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Post by coke & comics on Feb 11, 2018 22:04:52 GMT -5
Avengers #88
Black Panther chooses to take an indefinite leave of absence from the Avengers.
Astonishing Tales #6-7
Dr. Doom seemed to know where Wakanda was, but only learned through torturing an African person that it was the location of the vibranium he was seeking.
Black Panther is still in Avengers Mansion. He had been planning to leave the next day for N'Baza's funeral. Doom's invasion convinced him to leave sooner.
Even after imprisoning Black Panther and nearly conquering Wakanda, Doom calls Wakanda a "poor" kingdom with "vicious primitives". Did Doom not find the technological jungle? Is it not there? Is Doom just being racist? I presume the implication is the technology is too well hidden that even Doom missed it, despite tunneling in.
The battle ends in something of a stalemate and Doom decides to leave Wakanda for now.
Avengers #99-100
A vision of Black Panther I can get behind. In Wakanda, but on call should the Avengers need him. In these issue he works from Wakanda, using his scientific prowess to try to find a cure for Hercules' amnesia. And then able to briefly fly off to join the Avengers because it's their hundredth issue and they need everybody.
Fantastic Four #119
Taku contacts the Fantastic Four for help. (Taku was introduced in Avengers #68, Black Panther's 2nd-in-command) The vibotron has been stolen by Nathan Kumalu and Jeth Robards, who intend to sell it to Klaw in Rudyarda.
Rudyarda seems to be a fictional version of South Africa, an apartheid-regime. T'Challa was arrested simply for being black and walking down the street without ID. When he protested, a cop threatened to shoot him. There are separate entrances for "Europeans" and "Coloreds".
As is not uncommon, the FF are pretty quick to invade a sovereign country and start attacking the authorities.
Black Panther changes his name to Black Leopard to disassociate himself from the American Black Panther movement, which he "neither condemn nor condone".
The comic ends with Thing smashing down the segregated doors, leaving only one entranceway.
Daredevil #92
Daredevil asks Black Panther to fly to San Francisco in order to masquerade as Daredevil and battle the Blue Talon so that Matt Murdock and Daredevil can be seen together at the same time, thereby protecting his identity.
Black Panther claims to be the only superhero to know Daredevil's true identity. He refers to himself as the Black Panther.
Avengers #105
Black Panther decides to visit the Avengers since he had been in San Francisco to see Daredevil. Hawkeye is aware he has changed his name to Black Leopard. Black Panther informs him he has changed his mind and is going by Black Panther again. He joins them on a mission to the Savage Land to find Quicksilver.
Avengers #112
A protest outside Avengers mansion insists T'Challa return home to his responsibilities to Wakanda. The protest was engineered by the Lion God, ancient rival of the Panther god.
Avengers #114
The Lion God returns and is defeated with the help of Mantis and Swordsman, contained in its mortal form in an adamantium cell designed by Tony Stark.
Captain America #169-171
Falcon and his girlfriend Leila Taylor travel to Wakanda with Black Panther. It is again emphasized that nobody knows the location of Wakanda. Black Panther designs Falcon his wings. Leila gets captured by Falcon's old foe Stoneface while visiting Lagos and the two heroes team up to rescue her.
References are made to some of his people questioning his fitness to rule, hints of the coming Panther's Rage story.
Avengers #126
The ambassador of Rudyarda (really Klaw in disguise) needs the help of the Avengers. They are being threatened by Klaw and Solarr. Klaw wants revenge against Rudyarda and wants to rule Wakanda. The Avengers win the day.
Black Panther takes a leave of absence from the Avengers to return to Wakanda.
Marvel Team-Up #20
Before returning to Wakanda, Black Panther teams with Spider-Man to fight Stegron.
This concludes what I consider an awkward era for Black Panther, starting with his joining of the Avengers in Avengers #52.
I just have a hard time reconciling the Lee/Kirby king and protector seen in Fantastic Four and Tales of Suspense with the New York vigilante and school teacher with a secret identity. We will learn in Jungle Action that many people in Wakanda were unhappy with their king's absences. I'd say they have the right to be unhappy. Heck, a lot of Americans are unhappy their president keeps vacationing in Mar-a-Lago. At least he's still in the country.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Feb 13, 2018 19:42:06 GMT -5
"Rudyarda"? Talk about subtlety!!!
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Post by coke & comics on Feb 13, 2018 23:38:03 GMT -5
Panther's Rage
Jungle Action #6-18
I think the first Black Panther story in Fantastic Four #52-53 was a strong introduction to the character. But none of his other stories really did the character justice. This is his first solo series and the first book to really do justice to Kirby's creation. It deals with the choices T'Challa has made... to abandon his kingdom for so long, to enter into a relationship with an American woman...
We see chaos in Wakanda, a rising warlord, people dissatisfied with their king, revolution in the air, palace intrigue, divisions in T'Challa's court, farmers frightened by the pace of technological change... the superheroing seems almost a distraction from the interesting political thriller going on. Being a Marvel comic, every issue introduces a new super-villain, usually allied with the warlord Erik Killmonger. Venomm, Malice, Baron Macabre, King Cadaver, Lord Karnaj, ... Black Panther is also depicted battling animals, from rhinos and crocodiles to a tyrannosaurus rex.
Kirby's technological jungle in mentioned but barely glimpsed. We see occasional sci/fi weapons or jets, but only rarely. Mostly what is drawn looks to be a village in in Africa, a very non-modernized one. McGregor largely leans away from the sci/fi aspects of Wakanda, focused on political intrigue in an African nation, with the occasional fantastic villain running around.
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Post by coke & comics on Feb 14, 2018 0:12:01 GMT -5
Panther's Rage  Black Panther vs. the Klan  |
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Feb 14, 2018 15:52:55 GMT -5
Yeah, honestly I think everyone just forgot about the technological jungle. I'm not 100% sure it *ever* shows up again.
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