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Post by Hoosier X on Feb 17, 2018 12:02:09 GMT -5
I think my first issue of Spider-Man was #151 or #152, but I quickly picked up #129, #130, #131, #139, #141, #143, #149 and a couple of others at used-book stores (and one of my friends had #135 and #136) and I've always loved these issues. As much as I love Ditko, Romita and Kane, I sort of think of Andru as MY Spider-Man artist. It's just a few years ago that I was able to read every issue (through volumes of The Essential Spider-Man from the library) and I loved being able to read them all! (Especially because there were several stories where I'd read the first part in the 1970s and had never read the conclusion. Also, I had long wanted to read the Molten Man issues! They're great!)
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Feb 17, 2018 14:51:54 GMT -5
I really do admire the long-term plotting and scope of these issues - I'm definitely impressed by the pure ambition that Conway and Andru display.
It is DEFINITELY better than the stories that came after it, and a step up from the last few years of Stan's Spider-man - issues 75-99 ish) where (A) it was almost all single issue stories (B) Romita was regularly demoted to inker (C) the artists maybe??? had to use smaller art boards? I'm not sure of the timeline on that, and (D) Stan used.
only a couple words
in each panel and
it drove me
nuts.
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Post by Rob Allen on Feb 17, 2018 15:57:30 GMT -5
I bought this run as it was coming out and I remember enjoying it. Andru had a distinct style that worked well here.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Feb 17, 2018 17:06:39 GMT -5
I'd say good, though it's been a long time since I've read those books. I started buying ASM shortly after this run, but picked up a lot of these books cheap over the years and not super long after they came out. I like Andru's Spider-Man. And I think that ASM was probably as good as Conway was, save for Atari Force.
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Post by nero9000 on Feb 18, 2018 0:57:33 GMT -5
Better than good! Second best Spidey run out of them all, behind only Lee and Romita. Hands down the best material Conway or Andru ever did. Because of this run, I used to think of both of them as all-time greats, but a lot of the material they've done outside this run didn't really reach the same quality. In interviews Conway has said he had a natural affinity and knack for Spider-Man, and it really shows. It's amazing how often sticking a creator in a title he's really passionate about him can elevate his work to a new level.
Personal context: In Finland, the Spider-Man comic started right after the Conway-run, with issue #150. As the earliest Finnish Spidey-issues, the Wein-Andru issues were of course hard to get and more expensive. As such, the run was something of a minor holy grail for me, and getting each issue was a bit of an investment, though one worth making. And of course the earlier stuff, for the most part, wasn't available at all. I actually bought half of the clone saga on a trip to Portugal. Didn't understand a word, but it looked purty! Anyway, for me the early stuff became this mythical golden age of Spidey-comics that I felt I'd only get to experience through synopses.
Flash forward to 1997, and the lowest of low dark ages (until the next one) for Spider-Man, with the clone saga at its full nadir in Finland. Then, suddenly the company decided to release the entire original clone saga as one special issue! Booee howdeee what a moment! Nothing this good had come out in years!
As the years have gone by, the Wein/Andru run has lost some of its luster. Not because it's bad, just a tad... workmanlike. There really isn't a particularly stand-out story, or classic moment that'll immediately pop into my head when someone mentions Spider-Man. The Conway run, on the other hand, is chock full of them! It's still early on in the series, so it really feels as if the title is evolving all the time, going to places, with each issue mattering. Even the goofy stuff, and there's certainly lots of it, is fun and harmless.
After reading Comics Creators on Spider-Man, I realize now the difference between Wein on one hand, and Conway or say Wolfman on the other, is that Wein was a plot-oriented writer, while the others (Conway on Spidey, at least) were character-driven. For a long time I couldn't really see what made Wolfman's 70s stories so easily memorable to me, when he didn't seem to be that much ahead of the others in terms of plots. But it's doing something novel and interesting with the characters that makes the difference. In Spider-Man stories the plot is quite often limited by having Spidey fight the criminal of the day, but it's the character-driven moments that really stick in my head and make a story stand out.
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Post by nero9000 on Feb 18, 2018 1:14:17 GMT -5
The Jackal, in my book, is not just one of Spidey's best villains, but one of Marvel's best ever. Why? A middle-aged man with a molester 'stache and bad haircut, who has a creepy obsession for a teenage girl and likes to dress up as a furry in his spare time. It's like something right out of the papers! This guy is REAL. If supervillains existed, they'd be guys like the Jackal, not some kewl mercenary or hunk in a suit. The story tries to play his obsession for Gwen fairly innocently, but this guy is messed up as all hell. All that said, he's a pretty three-dimensional villain. He thinks he's a hero who's wronging a right, and eventually comes to his senses and sacrifices himself to save a life. Conway thought he had a worthy replacement to Norman Osborn in Harry, but he really had it in Miles Warren. The villain only really works during the Conway run, though. Well, Carrion was a brilliant take on the matter, but in the 90s the character turned into a wisecracking furry Joker who wanted to take over the world. Yeah, ok... One interesting aspect of the Conway run is how his later developments affect the earlier stories, as well. Check out issue 53. Warren is basically flirting with Gwen, before making a speech about Spider-Man in front of Peter, pretty much accusing Spidey of being a psycho who gets his jollies out of dressing up as an animal. Fast forward a few years and Warren is doing it himself! Clearly inspider by Spidey. But does he already know Peter is Spider-Man, and is talking trash to him for stealing his girl?  |
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Post by kirby101 on Feb 18, 2018 9:23:55 GMT -5
I won't tell anyone what comics they praise. But let's not forget that this period also gave us the Spider-Mobile.  |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2018 10:24:57 GMT -5
Wasn't Marvel approached by a toy company to put it in the comics to help sell it on store shelves? I believe both Conway & Wein did stories after a short time to get rid of the car. And Spidey himself complained about it calling it a fiasco & saying good riddance when it was smashed up.
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Post by kirby101 on Feb 18, 2018 10:43:24 GMT -5
Yes, it was not something the creators wanted at all. Just taking the piss here.
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Post by tarkintino on Feb 18, 2018 12:20:30 GMT -5
I won't tell anyone what comics they praise. But let's not forget that this period also gave us the Spider-Mobile. Well, that more of a corporate than creative decision. After all, it was tied-in to help sell...  |
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Post by Hoosier X on Feb 18, 2018 13:18:03 GMT -5
I won't tell anyone what comics they praise. But let's not forget that this period also gave us the Spider-Mobile. Let's not forget the way they handled the Spider-Mobile. It only appeared in a few issues ... and it's hilarious! Nothing to be the least bit ashamed of. |
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Post by Ozymandias on Feb 18, 2018 13:32:31 GMT -5
Out of all those, I only read #129, 130, 132 and 150, at the end of the 70's or beginning of the 80's. It wasn't my decision, I would've bought anything with Spider-Man on it, but... In Spain, #129-149, were originally published between July 1974 and November 1975, almost on par with the originals, but I didn't catch those on time, because I was very little and had no budget whatsoever to work with. I didn't start buying comics until a few years later, and at that time, they were publishing the end of the Lee era and the beginning of the Conway run (they had caught up with the american edition, and needed some time to create a buffer). Back issues were almost impossible to find, so that was it for me. I should've been able to read them, but when we reached #63 of the Spanish edition (ASM #128 precisely), the editors did the strangest thing I've seen; they started numbering the series with a letter suffix (63A) and started to publish new material (ASM #150). They followed this scheme for 9 issues (or 5 months) all the way to 63I. At that point, they stopped publication for a couple of months, only to realise that numbers were invented for... well, numbering, so they switched back and to a monthly schedule, for the last 4 months (64-67); in total, they burnt more than two years worth of ASM (#150-175, in just 10 months). Not surprisingly, the editor closed the doors and the rights where transferred. The next publisher was even worse, if you can believe that, and reprinted erratically. 3 issues of that time period (#129, 130 and 132) were chosen. When I finally read the missing ones, 5 years ago, I couldn't help but feel I hand't missed on much. I rate them at an average of 3.84 How about the era immediately afterwards? I rate them at an average of 4.93 |
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Post by Ozymandias on Feb 18, 2018 13:37:42 GMT -5
Yes, it was not something the creators wanted at all [emphasis added]. Just taking the piss here. If that were the case, they would've quit their jobs. To some extent, they were wiling to trade integrity for money, but judging the work, they had to offer something else, right?  |
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,220 
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Post by Confessor on Feb 18, 2018 14:43:38 GMT -5
I won't tell anyone what comics they praise. But let's not forget that this period also gave us the Spider-Mobile. That's a definite plus point, in my opinion. The spider-mobile appearances are very tongue-in-cheek and frequently hilarious. Say, what did fun ever do to you anyway?   |
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Post by tarkintino on Feb 18, 2018 17:02:23 GMT -5
Better than good! Second best Spidey run out of them all, behind only Lee and Romita. Agreed. As mentioned the other day, there was a story/character consistency from the height of the title (the Lee/Romita era) that did not miss a beat in logical progression from the big event of the Stacy/Goblin deaths, with each major plot (Harry as the 2nd Goblin / Jackal) providing both natural follow up and satisfactory, believable conclusions. One cannot underestimate how this period made Spider-Man a far bigger comic character considered "that" comic no reader would dare miss. |
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