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Post by badwolf on Mar 1, 2018 11:13:29 GMT -5
Secret Wars is no more and no less than the realization of every great story every kid with a bunch of action figures ever enacted. If Secret Wars had been published in 1965, it would be universally lauded as a classic today, but it came about in an age when comic book fandom had matured and wasn't looking for books written to the inner adolescent anymore. So, if you're looking for simple fun and big imagination, it's got it. And if you're looking for depth, intelligence, consistency, or originality, ummm...DC's got this Crisis on Infinite Earths thing you might want to check out instead. Also, if it had been published in 1965 it would have been written by Stan Lee rather than Jim Shooter ... and I suppose drawn by Jack Kirby? And Secret Wars II by perhaps Roy Thomas and John Buscema? Didn't DC have something similar that was drawn by Kirby, called Super Powers? (in the 80s) |
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Confessor
CCF Mod Squad
Not Bucky O'Hare!
Posts: 10,220 
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Post by Confessor on Mar 1, 2018 11:18:37 GMT -5
Thor on a pink scooter, zipping across Battleworld, could've only improved Secret Wars.  Myself, I like Secret Wars for what it was - big, dumb superhero fun. It's not an amazing story by any means, but it is enjoyable if you turn your brain off, a bit like a Rocky film, for example. I was 11-years-old when it came out and I thought it was a perfectly fine mini-series back then, although I definitely didn't consider it to be amazing or anything either. Secret Wars II, on the other hand, was a real lackluster mess. It's just sooooo damn boring. A totally unnecessary sequel, with a real paucity of decent ideas from Jim Shooter's pen. |
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Post by Icctrombone on Mar 1, 2018 11:21:45 GMT -5
The only thing that could have made it worse would have been a tall green rabbit.
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Post by rberman on Mar 1, 2018 11:22:34 GMT -5
The only thing that could have made it worse would have been a tall green rabbit. Hey, Jaxxon rocks! Wouldn't want to meet him in a dark alley... |
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Post by brutalis on Mar 1, 2018 11:26:41 GMT -5
The only thing that could have made it worse would have been a tall green rabbit. Why would a sick Bugs Bunny be in Secret Wars?   |
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Post by MDG on Mar 1, 2018 11:28:56 GMT -5
Also, if it had been published in 1965 it would have been written by Stan Lee rather than Jim Shooter ... and I suppose drawn by Jack Kirby? And Secret Wars II by perhaps Roy Thomas and John Buscema? Didn't DC have something similar that was drawn by Kirby, called Super Powers? (in the 80s) There were two Super Powers series (the second drawn by Infantino, I think), and they were explicitly done to promote the toy line. (As such, I'm not sure if they're considered "in continuity." |
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Post by chaykinstevens on Mar 1, 2018 12:04:08 GMT -5
There were two Super Powers series (the second drawn by Infantino, I think), and they were explicitly done to promote the toy line. (As such, I'm not sure if they're considered "in continuity." There were three series of Super Powers. Kirby plotted the first series and drew the covers and the final issue. Joey Cavalieri provided scripts and Adrian Gonzales pencilled the first four issues. The second series was written by Paul Kupperberg and pencilled by Kirby. The third series was by Kupperberg and Carmine Infantino. I don't think any of them were considered to be canon. |
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Post by nero9000 on Mar 1, 2018 13:22:56 GMT -5
But before Secret Wars they didn't have Marvel figures yet, or did they? Of course they did!  Now why didn't they make a 12-issue crossover miniseries out of that one! |
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Mar 1, 2018 13:58:18 GMT -5
It was about making money. Whether by selling a comic or a toy. Bottom line was dollars. And we bought the cosmic Kool-Aid big time! But it was tasty fun Kool-Aid at the time. Who's we? I'm being marginally facetious. I was 16 when Secret Wars came out and was beginning my completist phase (which lasted way too long). I bought, I think, the first four issues of Secret Wars and then gave up. It just did nothing for me. For me, at that point in my collecting time, to give up on a mini-series, it had to have been incredibly dire. I will say that I loved Crisis when it came out. As with many things I realize, in retrospect, I was very very wrong. I hate it almost as much as Cei-U does now. I don't hate Secret Wars. I just think it was a waste of perfectly good paper. |
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Post by brutalis on Mar 1, 2018 14:59:23 GMT -5
It was about making money. Whether by selling a comic or a toy. Bottom line was dollars. And we bought the cosmic Kool-Aid big time! But it was tasty fun Kool-Aid at the time. Who's we? I'm being marginally facetious. I was 16 when Secret Wars came out and was beginning my completist phase (which lasted way too long). I bought, I think, the first four issues of Secret Wars and then gave up. It just did nothing for me. For me, at that point in my collecting time, to give up on a mini-series, it had to have been incredibly dire. I will say that I loved Crisis when it came out. As with many things I realize, in retrospect, I was very very wrong. I hate it almost as much as Cei-U does now. I don't hate Secret Wars. I just think it was a waste of perfectly good paper. The "we" are the folks who gobbled it up at the time. Many I knew at the time grabbed up multiple issues and all the toys as fast they could find them. I did have a few of the toys but they really weren't all that great. For the comic I thought it was at best a mediocre story with great Mike Zeck/Bob Layton artwork and it was like any other "team-up" which offered a variety of heroes/villains for your dollars. Yet for all that it could have been Shooter took the easiest route story wise. This was more like any of the classic Giant-Size 60/70's DC Super Special's which did similar idea's but all in one giant issue. |
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Post by tarkintino on Mar 1, 2018 16:05:58 GMT -5
Ok, I can see your point... but Secret Wars was a much, much better story. Crisis was IMPORTANT to CONTINUITY and really did give a sense of monumentous scope, while Perez' art in Crisis really doesn't have an equal in comics. I see why Crisis is fondly remembered. But the story was the most basic "Good Guys vs. Bad Guy who's motivation is BWAHAHAHA Evil" plot possible and the narrative beats were a mishmash of nonsense where things... just.... happened. ...and where was the story in Secret Wars? At the tine, I bought the first miniseries, hoping it would live up to Marvel's hype-machine, but it did not. It was just like the toys it was promoting: toss a bunch of action figures at each other like kids at play. With Crisis, the plot tied into the then-existing DC universe and history, with all of its players so well presented that the reader could feel the investment each character had in the conflict. They were not there just be there. The scale was massive, but the creatives behind it were up for the challenge and delivered fro start to finish. Its no wonder Crisis is one of the few, truly supreme hallmarks of the 1980s comic industry. |
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Post by badwolf on Mar 1, 2018 16:19:44 GMT -5
Ok, I can see your point... but Secret Wars was a much, much better story. Crisis was IMPORTANT to CONTINUITY and really did give a sense of monumentous scope, while Perez' art in Crisis really doesn't have an equal in comics. I see why Crisis is fondly remembered. But the story was the most basic "Good Guys vs. Bad Guy who's motivation is BWAHAHAHA Evil" plot possible and the narrative beats were a mishmash of nonsense where things... just.... happened. ...and where was the story in Secret Wars? At the tine, I bought the first miniseries, hoping it would live up to Marvel's hype-machine, but it did not. It was just like the toys it was promoting: toss a bunch of action figures at each other like kids at play. With Crisis, the plot tied into the then-existing DC universe and history, with all of its players so well presented that the reader could feel the investment each character had in the conflict. There were not there just be there. The scale was massive, but the creatives behind it were up for the challenge and delivered fro start to finish. Its no wonder Crisis is one of the few, truly supreme hallmarks of the 1980s comic industry. Yeah I would say the only issue that fits that description would be the "villain war" (#9 I think) where Brainiac assembles every villain ever on his ship and sets them against the heroes. I loved it at the time but now I realize that those characters would never have stood for being in the same room as one another. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2018 16:21:27 GMT -5
Crisis: the destruction & rebuilding of DCU. Deaths of Supergirl & the Flash. Lasting effects for decades.
Secret Wars: a popcorn summer movie. Black symbiote Spidey costume. She-Hulk replaces the Thing in Fantastic Four. Changes lasted several years.
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Post by rberman on Mar 1, 2018 16:23:35 GMT -5
...and where was the story in Secret Wars? At the tine, I bought the first miniseries, hoping it would live up to Marvel's hype-machine, but it did not. It was just like the toys it was promoting: toss a bunch of action figures at each other like kids at play. With Crisis, the plot tied into the then-existing DC universe and history, with all of its players so well presented that the reader could feel the investment each character had in the conflict. There were not there just be there. The scale was massive, but the creatives behind it were up for the challenge and delivered fro start to finish. Its no wonder Crisis is one of the few, truly supreme hallmarks of the 1980s comic industry. The most important difference was that Crisis was first and foremost about collapsing all the different alternate reality versions of its heroes into a single continuity, which meant that they could afford to kill a whole lot of characters onscreen and off. That kind of (apparent) irrevocability raises the stakes and propels the narrative desperation for the survivors. Whereas Secret Wars was about the marquee characters who were being made into toys and thus couldn't very well be killed during the course of the story. Claremont got a similar opportunity in X-Men: The End. He could kill anybody he wanted to. And he did! Imaginary stories are a great playground for those sorts of life-changing (and life-ending) plot lines. |
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Post by MDG on Mar 1, 2018 16:33:22 GMT -5
"It's about camaraderie. It's about teamwork. But most of all, it's about history."
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