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Post by tarkintino on Mar 3, 2018 5:36:16 GMT -5
Sigh* , I had those as a kid... Wow. You had some rare items. Captain Action was not on the shelves that long, so by 1970, it already earned a "Holy Grail"-type status of collectibles.
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Post by Icctrombone on Mar 3, 2018 6:47:04 GMT -5
It's wasn't out that long? Wow, I remember that they used to have commercials for the Captain Action line. My brother had the big ship that they used and it actually could float on water, as we used to place it in our bathtub.
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Post by tarkintino on Mar 3, 2018 9:45:20 GMT -5
It's wasn't out that long? Wow, I remember that they used to have commercials for the Captain Action line. My brother had the big ship that they used and it actually could float on water, as we used to place it in our bathtub. Try finding that now without breaking the bank! ..and yeah, the Captain Action line only ran from 1966-68. Probably one of the shortest action figure runs in history, yet its one of the most celebrated and pursued over the past 50 years. I guess Ideal did something right!
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Mar 3, 2018 10:39:01 GMT -5
I've not read Secret Wars, but I'm a 90's comic reader to start, and there was no shortage of events. And many of them play out the same formula. In asking the owner of my LCS at the time some recommendations, among others I got COIE.
Outside the art and the deaths (which by the time I read it were already negated) it plays out just like what people are describing Secret Wars to be reading this thread. Maybe because like other acclaimed stories I read them out of their chronological context and so some of the "wow" was lost to me. So saying you have to turn off your brain for Secret Wars and not COIE seems weird.
I also agree with Confessor about MCU movies. But I'm not surprised a poster with Bucky O'Hare for an avatar has good taste. GotG and Iron Man stand out to me. But I'd say a lot of them are turn your brain off movies as well. Though I haven't seen BP yet but hear a lot of praise for it.
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Post by rberman on Mar 3, 2018 10:59:35 GMT -5
Outside the art and the deaths (which by the time I read it were already negated) it plays out just like what people are describing Secret Wars to be reading this thread. Maybe because like other acclaimed stories I read them out of their chronological context and so some of the "wow" was lost to me. So saying you have to turn off your brain for Secret Wars and not COIE seems weird. Crisis was harder to read because it had a much larger cast (though mainly in cameos) and assumed much prior investment in the characters, or else the destruction of Ultraman and his universe (for instance) means less than Phoenix eating the D’Bari asparagus planet. It would certainly lose its impact for those who didn’t cut their teeth reading stories in the lineage of “Crisis on Two Earths,” or the annual JLA/JSA crossovers, etc.
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Mar 3, 2018 11:19:10 GMT -5
Outside the art and the deaths (which by the time I read it were already negated) it plays out just like what people are describing Secret Wars to be reading this thread. Maybe because like other acclaimed stories I read them out of their chronological context and so some of the "wow" was lost to me. So saying you have to turn off your brain for Secret Wars and not COIE seems weird. Crisis was harder to read because it had a much larger cast (though mainly in cameos) and assumed much prior investment in the characters, or else the destruction of Ultraman and his universe (for instance) means less than Phoenix eating the D’Bari asparagus planet. It would certainly lose its impact for those who didn’t cut their teeth reading stories in the lineage of “Crisis on Two Earths,” or the annual JLA/JSA crossovers, etc. Personally most of the confusion for me came from not knowing about the other Earths. Even having read this year's into reading comics my DC was mostly Batman, GL and GA at that time. And unlike Marvel outside of Batman: TAS, DC didn't have a lot of cartoons in the 90's so I wasn't as familiar with them as I was Marvel. So I certainly felt like I was reading something I couldn't quite appreciate the magnitude of out of ignorance. But to me the story itself had your basic villain that heroes had to unite (and even other villains too if I remember right) to defeat. As I said I say this only judging Secret Wars on what's said in this thread. If anything it's kind of peaked my interest to maybe seek out an inexpensive TPB and read it.
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Post by Roquefort Raider on Mar 3, 2018 16:42:12 GMT -5
Outside the art and the deaths (which by the time I read it were already negated) it plays out just like what people are describing Secret Wars to be reading this thread. Maybe because like other acclaimed stories I read them out of their chronological context and so some of the "wow" was lost to me. So saying you have to turn off your brain for Secret Wars and not COIE seems weird. I personally find Secret Wars more straightforward and logical. I didn't like the general concept at all, as it didn't make a lot of sense to have an omnipotent being make a bunch of ants fight for him so he could learn about "desire" (there seem to be countless easier and more fruitful ways to learn about stuff), but once we accept the premise the rest of the story just follows a sort-of sensible path. COIE, on the other hand, has been describe jokingly as "Crisis everywhere at once all at the same time". More ambitious than Secret Wars, that's for sure, and with much better art and more long-lasting consequences. But right from the start I was puzzled by the notion of time being treated as just another place. Yes, I know the series was meant to deal with all of DC:s heroes, from Anthro to Kamandi by way of Batman and the Legion of super-heroes... but how come the Anti-monitor's creatures attack the universe in the past, in the present and in the future but not at every single moment? Were some random (or significant) moments picked throughout the timeline? And if so why? I was also confused by the idea of Earth being treated as if it were the entire universe. If you preserve the Earth behind some kind of ad hoc barrier, the rest of its universe is still being destroyed... and as for the "anti-matter wave" destroying everything in its path, is it a phenomenon appearing simultaneously throughout space? Because otherwise it means that it's been chewing up real estate for as long as the universe existed, as it's clearly not moving faster than light (which in itself would be impossible, but that's comic-book astrophysics for you. Secret Wars had the same problem actually, when it showed a galaxy being ripped apart under our eyes. No-Prize seekers would argue that it was a mental projection). COIE also used a comic-book trope that I hate: an über-villain who threatens everything and everyone in the entire universe, with our heroes stopping him by... ganging up and punching him all together? Even when you have a couple of Supermen and one Superboy in your ranks, it hardly seems possible. COIE ended up being a story about heroes from different eras and universes running around while George Perez drew thousands of tons of flying rubble, with many characters dying heroically and others gnashing their teeth. The plot didn't seem to lead anywhere, and early on I had the impression that the conclusion would be something like "We must now go on a last-chance mission in which by (fill in the blank) we can destroy the Anti-monitor and save the universe". The whole thing looked absolutely gorgeous, and the drama of seeing old favourites die was gripping, but the overall plot was not particularly sensible.
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Post by tarkintino on Mar 3, 2018 20:16:44 GMT -5
And unlike Marvel outside of Batman: TAS, DC didn't have a lot of cartoons in the 90's so I wasn't as familiar with them as I was Marvel. Actually, Superman: TAS, The New Batman Adventures, The New Batman/Superman Adventures & Batman Beyond all premiering in the 1990s.
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Post by String on Mar 4, 2018 17:34:52 GMT -5
Criticize his perceived flaws all you want but I firmly believe that Shooter's mantra of 'Treat every issue as if it's someone's first' should be the Golden Rule of the industry. On this front, Crisis failed miserably. In cleaning house, DC required readers to have an in-depth knowledge of their universe(s) and characters, something that as a 13 year old, I didn't have. So that definitely affected my initial enjoyment of it (in spite of Perez's great art). Whereas with SW, with it's straightforward story and characters, it was a much better read and for me, had better consequences than what Crisis provided. It's a great mantra for ongoing series, but for a limited series with a single story to tell, I'm not sure it's as important. I had a different experience with Crisis. I didn't even start picking it up until halfway through, but after I read that, I hunted down all the previous issues. I had only a casual knowledge of the DC universe but it still enthralled me. It made me want to delve deeper into their publications.Of course, same here. Their cleaning house made it more enticing for me to really delve farther into their work and characters.
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Post by adamwarlock2099 on Mar 5, 2018 11:50:07 GMT -5
Outside the art and the deaths (which by the time I read it were already negated) it plays out just like what people are describing Secret Wars to be reading this thread. Maybe because like other acclaimed stories I read them out of their chronological context and so some of the "wow" was lost to me. So saying you have to turn off your brain for Secret Wars and not COIE seems weird. I personally find Secret Wars more straightforward and logical. I didn't like the general concept at all, as it didn't make a lot of sense to have an omnipotent being make a bunch of ants fight for him so he could learn about "desire" (there seem to be countless easier and more fruitful ways to learn about stuff), but once we accept the premise the rest of the story just follows a sort-of sensible path. COIE, on the other hand, has been describe jokingly as "Crisis everywhere at once all at the same time". More ambitious than Secret Wars, that's for sure, and with much better art and more long-lasting consequences. But right from the start I was puzzled by the notion of time being treated as just another place. Yes, I know the series was meant to deal with all of DC:s heroes, from Anthro to Kamandi by way of Batman and the Legion of super-heroes... but how come the Anti-monitor's creatures attack the universe in the past, in the present and in the future but not at every single moment? Were some random (or significant) moments picked throughout the timeline? And if so why? I was also confused by the idea of Earth being treated as if it were the entire universe. If you preserve the Earth behind some kind of ad hoc barrier, the rest of its universe is still being destroyed... and as for the "anti-matter wave" destroying everything in its path, is it a phenomenon appearing simultaneously throughout space? Because otherwise it means that it's been chewing up real estate for as long as the universe existed, as it's clearly not moving faster than light (which in itself would be impossible, but that's comic-book astrophysics for you. Secret Wars had the same problem actually, when it showed a galaxy being ripped apart under our eyes. No-Prize seekers would argue that it was a mental projection). COIE also used a comic-book trope that I hate: an über-villain who threatens everything and everyone in the entire universe, with our heroes stopping him by... ganging up and punching him all together? Even when you have a couple of Supermen and one Superboy in your ranks, it hardly seems possible. COIE ended up being a story about heroes from different eras and universes running around while George Perez drew thousands of tons of flying rubble, with many characters dying heroically and others gnashing their teeth. The plot didn't seem to lead anywhere, and early on I had the impression that the conclusion would be something like "We must now go an a last-chance mission in which by (fill in the blank) we can destroy the Anti-monitor and save the universe". The whole thing looked absolutely gorgeous, and the drama of seeing old favourites die was gripping, but the overall plot was not particularly sensible. I think this is why it had so little impact to me, coupled with not knowing anyone outside Earth 1 or whatever is the Marvel 616 equivalent. I read cosmic, and love it. Starlin does well with it. But even at his best, when your ambition is to create a scenario in which no reasonable conclusion is possible, it always ends up being like what you mentioned. Oh wait, we got to wrap up the story about a villain that destroys universes in his spare time with 10% of the heroes we had from all the other failed attempts. It's like the ending of Infinity Gauntlet. I was like are &^%*ing kidding me? Heroes and dead, lying on the ground defeated just moments ago, and this is how the remaining heroes win? I guess what I am saying is, all huge cosmic epics like this seem to have the same formula, it's going along for the ride that makes it entertaining. And unlike Marvel outside of Batman: TAS, DC didn't have a lot of cartoons in the 90's so I wasn't as familiar with them as I was Marvel. Actually, Superman: TAS, The New Batman Adventures, The New Batman/Superman Adventures & Batman Beyond all premiering in the 1990s. I recently watched my Batman:TAS DVD collection, and didn't realize how far The New Batman Adventures were from TAS yet they packaged them both together under the collective Batman The Animated Series. So I guess I forget they were actually shows separated by a few years. And I do still have the Batman/Superman movie on VHS I recorded from TV.
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Post by sabongero on Mar 5, 2018 14:30:36 GMT -5
Basically, it's a way to bring all the major superheroes and supervillains in a year long maxi-series. But of course, the ultimate goal, was the toy company coming out with the Marvel toyline, and they needed a venue to promote them.
Looking back, I liked the interactions between heroes that I've never seen interact before.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Mar 5, 2018 14:45:59 GMT -5
As I've said, I didn't even finish Secret Wars at the time it was coming out. But in retrospect, I think one of my problems with the book was the way it was advertised and hyped. It was touted and hyped that it would change the Marvel Universe. In the end...what happened? Spidey had a new costume for a little while and Ben Grimm hung out on Battle World for a while. If anything else happened I'm not aware of it.
Some people definitely seem to like it. And that's fine. I like a lot of crappy things that I probably shouldn't.
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Post by rberman on Mar 5, 2018 15:03:07 GMT -5
As I've said, I didn't even finish Secret Wars at the time it was coming out. But in retrospect, I think one of my problems with the book was the way it was advertised and hyped. It was touted and hyped that it would change the Marvel Universe. In the end...what happened? Spidey had a new costume for a little while and Ben Grimm hung out on Battle World for a while. If anything else happened I'm not aware of it. Secret Wars certainly wasn't a cataclysmic game changer, but comics are no stranger to the "Spider-Man's life is about to change.... forever!!!" hype monster. That kind of bombast was central to Stan Lee's carnie barker appeal. "This is the one, true believers! If you miss it, you'll never forgive yourself..." Its main impact was behind the scenes, ushering in the era of regrettable events trying to outdo the last like a couple of teenage boys doing stupid bike tricks until one of them breaks an arm.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 5, 2018 15:09:13 GMT -5
As I've said, I didn't even finish Secret Wars at the time it was coming out. But in retrospect, I think one of my problems with the book was the way it was advertised and hyped. It was touted and hyped that it would change the Marvel Universe. In the end...what happened? Spidey had a new costume for a little while and Ben Grimm hung out on Battle World for a while. If anything else happened I'm not aware of it. Secret Wars certainly wasn't a cataclysmic game changer, but comics are no stranger to the "Spider-Man's life is about to change.... forever!!!" hype monster. That kind of bombast was central to Stan Lee's carnie barker appeal. "This is the one, true believers! If you miss it, you'll never forgive yourself..." Its main impact was behind the scenes, ushering in the era of regrettable events trying to outdo the last like a couple of teenage boys doing stupid bike tricks until one of them breaks an arm. Except Secret Wars itself was trying to outdo the previous event, Contest of Champions, form two years earlier which was built on the same premise, so it didn't start the event trend, but continued it. If a three issue series crossing over everyone sold well, let's do 12 this time, especially if its tied into a launching toyline... -M
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Post by rberman on Mar 5, 2018 15:43:22 GMT -5
Secret Wars certainly wasn't a cataclysmic game changer, but comics are no stranger to the "Spider-Man's life is about to change.... forever!!!" hype monster. That kind of bombast was central to Stan Lee's carnie barker appeal. "This is the one, true believers! If you miss it, you'll never forgive yourself..." Its main impact was behind the scenes, ushering in the era of regrettable events trying to outdo the last like a couple of teenage boys doing stupid bike tricks until one of them breaks an arm. Except Secret Wars itself was trying to outdo the previous event, Contest of Champions, form two years earlier which was built on the same premise, so it didn't start the event trend, but continued it. If a three issue series crossing over everyone sold well, let's do 12 this time, especially if its tied into a launching toyline. Secret Wars did continue the "Get everybody together to punch each other for REASONS" trend from Contest of the Champions, but I don't recall Contest impacting continuity at all. Secret Wars did a little, though obviously nowhere near as much as Crisis did. Speaking of Contest: I haven't read this since it first came out, but my recollection was that the final MacGuffin grab came down to Shamrock vs Captain America, and Shamrock used "luck of the Irish" to win for her team, but the final score given in the caption (and the outcome of the series) indicated otherwise. Was I a confused kid, or did this happen?
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