Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Jul 9, 2018 1:43:01 GMT -5
I actually think Obi-Wan looks more like he was sulking and embittered now that more material has been added with Rebels... I mean, the way it's set up, he basically told everyone to not lose hope and wait for further instructions, then either never followed up, or, worse, knew that people like Ashoka and Kaanan were out there, and that the Empire was hunting down young force sensitives to either brain wash or kill, and just ignored it to play hermit and/or babysit Luke. That's interesting, but I don't give much weight to anything in the Expanded Universe anymore. I've seen far too much of it thrown out over the years and disregarded when future movies get made. I take Obi-Wan's reasons for staying on Tatooine, play acting as a hermit, and looking after Luke as explained in the Star Wars novelisation, radio play and film itself as the "truth" of the matter. In other Star Wars news, I found a three-in-one book club type hardcover of some of the YA books from the early 90s..(by Paul Davids) I remember reading at least one of them, but with no memory of the plot..it should be an interesting read! I never read any of those books. When the EU got revived in the early 90s, I read the Thrawn trilogy, which I loved, and then tried the Truce at Bakura, which was noticeably less good, but I gave up on the books entirely with The Courtship of Princess Leia -- which was like Mills & Boon in space! From then on, I just focused on the comics, while ignoring any of the novels that came out. I'm sure I probably missed some good ones in doing that. |
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Post by Duragizer on Jul 9, 2018 17:55:57 GMT -5
I, Jedi and the Corellian Trilogy are some very good-to-great SW novels. I've also heard nice things about the X-Wing books, though I couldn't get into those. By-and-large, though, the novels are pretty cruddy.
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Jul 9, 2018 19:19:17 GMT -5
I, Jedi and the Corellian Trilogy are some very good-to-great SW novels. I've also heard nice things about the X-Wing books, though I couldn't get into those. By-and-large, though, the novels are pretty cruddy. I loved the X-Wing: Rogue Squadron comic, but I never had any inclination to pick up the novels. |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jul 9, 2018 21:44:48 GMT -5
I never read any of those books. When the EU got revived in the early 90s, I read the Thrawn trilogy, which I loved, and then tried the Truce at Bakura, which was noticeably less good, but I gave up on the books entirely with The Courtship of Princess Leia -- which was like Mills & Boon in space! From then on, I just focused on the comics, while ignoring any of the novels that came out. I'm sure I probably missed some good ones in doing that. Totally agree on your opinions there  . That was about it for the early EU books... Vector Prime was decent (Chewey did have a great death scene there)... and the Han ones were decent, but the Kevin Anderson ones were horrible (the Hutts build a death star in one), and I was ever a fan of Shadows of the Empire. The later ones (New Jedi Order), were all later, and focused on the twins.. Jacen being the 'bad' one, and these guys from outside the galaxy that were bascially the Star Wars version of the Borg.. I only read a few of them, but they were decent... a bit overwhelming, though (20+ books) |
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Jul 10, 2018 10:34:55 GMT -5
OK, so I've re-read issues #2-4 of Dark Empire, but first, let me say that your reviews of these comics are great, aquagoat. Really well written and full of interesting opinions, theories and details. Anyway, here are some of my scattered thoughts on those three issues, along with some specific responses to comments made in your reviews, aquagoat... The first thing to note is that my opinion of Cam Kennedy's artwork is more or less the same as it was for issue #1. Which is to say that, although the "disco lights" colouring is detrimental to my enjoyment of the art, the art itself puts across the story very well. It's very "cinematic", inasmuch as it accurately captures the various Star Wars spaceships, the quick pace of the films and the eye-popping visuals, to the point where you can almost hear John Williams' score playing in your head while you read. As for Tom Veitch, he's building a pretty gripping tale here, with some great pacing and some good dialogue. I particularly liked his having Luke Skywalker describe Byss as the "dark center of the universe." That was a nice nod to Luke's comment in Episode IV that, if there was a bright center of the universe, Tatooine was the planet that it was furthest from. Overall, I think Veitch captures the "voices" of the central cast really well, except for Luke, who seems very out of character...but maybe that's intentional, given his turn to the Dark Side. Now for some specific responses...
...the real impact comes from an line uttered by one of the Imperial officers during the battle - when he orders one of his men to, 'inform Supreme Commander Skywalker'. That's right - when we left Luke in the last issue, he had submitted to the Emperor and the Dark Side. Now we find he's not only joined the Empire - he's commanding it! I must say that I feel the whole reason for Luke joining the Emperor in the first place seems flimsy or unconvincing. It seems to be a case of, "this time I'll destroy my enemies from the inside!", when, actually, killing the Emperor again, while making sure that you also destroy his cloning facility seems a more obvious way to go. On a related matter, I love that Leia is being given a decent sized role in things. She's been terribly underused in the disappointing sequel trilogy thus far, but in Dark Empire we see some really good character development. She's also shown to be a fairly powerful Force user herself now -- even attacking the Emperor himself at one point -- which I like. ...to pick out one highlight, the Emperor's citadel is guarded by 12-foot tall robed warriors with tiny red eyes and pike staffs, who look intimidating yet somehow child-like.  Actually, these weren't designed by Cam Kennedy; they are based on ROTJ pre-production sketches of the Imperial Royal Guards done by Nilo Rodis-Jamero in the early '80s...  The Emperor describes how the events of Return of the Jedi were just one of many times he has died; his Dark Side powers cause his body to decay, and so he uses cloning technology to become immortal. Many reviewers have complained that the Emperor resurrecting himself is a bad idea, but it makes perfect sense that he would do so, if he had the technology - and what did happen to it after the Clone Wars anyway? You can easy envisage Emperor Palpatine commandeering the cloning world of Kamino and using it for his own sinister purposes. This is a wonderful use of existing lore from the films - not just cloning, but the Emperor's decaying appearance in RotJ which always seemed to suggest he was so morally corrupt that his face was warped. Here he even mentions that he exists primarily as formless energy - so the Emperor is literally pure evil, in human form. I have to say that I agree that bringing Emperor Palpatine back again was a bad idea. It goes back to what we were saying in our discussions of Dark Empire #1, in that having the Empire and the Emperor at large again has the unintended consequence of making the events of the original trilogy look as if they were all for nothing. It diminishes the sacrifices made in Episodes IV-VI, just as the First Order's appearance in the sequel trilogy does. Having said that, the Emperor is a great villain and having him come back from the dead is certainly a lot more palatable than, say, resurrecting Darth Vader. Also, although it wasn't intended, the Emperor's ability to be reborn ties in nicely with what we learned in Revenge of the Sith about Darth Plagueis cheating death. So, I think Veitch does a decent job of bringing Palpatine back, even if, on a really fundamental level, I dislike the idea of having him and the Empire back again. I also really liked the old EU explanation for why the Emperor looked so haggard and diseased, which sources like Dark Empire put forward: his appalling appearance was due to the corrosive effects of the Dark Side. That's a much, much better explanation than what Revenge of the Sith offered us, with Mace Windu deflecting Palpatine's Force lightning back at him and scarring his face. We also learn some cool backstory to Admiral Ackbar his home world of Calamari, which the Empire tried to turn into a slave camp many years ago. The Mon Calamari people resisted, and although the Empire destroyed their cities as a result - and had the planet top of the list as a Death Star target - it only hardened the Mon Calamari against them, and Ackbar and co became a valuable part of the Rebel Alliance. I'm pretty sure that the Mon Calamari were shown joining the Rebellion for the first time between the events of A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back in the Archie Goodwin and Al Williamson SW newspaper strip. That doesn't tie in with what Veitch is saying in Dark Empire – and, remember, the Goodwin/Wiliamson strips were considered part of then-current EU cannon at the time. Of course, we now know – thanks to Rogue One: A Star Wars Story – that Veitch was spot on, and the Mon Calamari had indeed been part of the Rebellion since before A New Hope, but I'm pretty certain that this was a continuity mistake on Veitch's part at the time that these comics were originally published. Ackbar himself inexplicably describes the World Devastators as 'far more lethal than the Death Star' - I'm not sure the inhabitants of Alderaan would agree. I totally agree. The World Devastators have always seemed really kind of "meh" to me. I mean, it's an interesting concept to have them gobble up buildings, machines, people etc, and then recycle them into new offensive technology. But more lethal than the Death Star? Don't think so!
I guess that the Devastators might be more lethal than the Death Star to small Rebel assault craft. After all, the Death Star couldn't do much against X-Wings and Y-Wings ("They're so small they're evading our turbo-lasers."), but more lethal than something that could destroy entire worlds at the flick of a switch? Ummm....no. Just no.
We also meet one of Dark Empire's most interesting new characters: Vima Da Boma, who claims to be a former Jedi who escaped Vader's purge. A shabby, wizened figure who conceals great wisdom, she is Leia's own Obi-Wan/Yoda; recognising Leia as a 'Daughter of the Force', and 'the spark that will rekindle the fire'. She even gives Leia a gift which turns out to be, of course, a lightsaber - before disappearing, as all good Jedi do. This was not the end of Vima though, she turned up again in Dark Empire II. The mysterious, wizened old Jedi, Vima-Da-Boma, is, I think, Tom Veitch's single most important and memorable contribution to Star Wars law. Calling her Leia's own Yoda is perhaps going a bit far, but then again, she does have an idiosyncratic speech pattern, in which she refers to herself in the third-person. So there is that parallel, I suppose. But anyway, more of her later... Before creating Dark Empire, Veitch and Kennedy wanted to make a story about the Jedi before their extermination by Vader; presumably Vima was a character created for that. That's very interesting. I had no idea about that and I agree that this is most likely where Vima originated. In fact, don't we meet her as a much younger woman in Dark Horse's Tales of the Jedi series? My memory's hazy, but that seems to be ringing a bell with me. Fett's excuse for surviving Return of the Jedi - 'The sarlacc found me somewhat indigestible' - is plausible enough given he's covered in thick body armour And lets not forget that Jo Duffy had already brought Boba Fett back once in the Marvel run, in the excellent Star Wars #81 – and with the same "Sarlacc finding him indigestible" explanation. Of course, she was forced by Lucasfilm to return Fett to the Sarlacc pit, which is something that Veitch never had to do. I think there were a few Star Wars fans who had a problem with Fett getting resurrected, but, like you, it made a lot of sense to me that he'd be able to escape the Sarlacc. Especially given that he was in his full armour and still had all of his suit weapons intact when he fell in. I loved seeing him back in action in Dark Empire, although, on the downside, his characterisation seemed all wrong to me... However, Dark Empire seems to take Fett's comedic exit in RotJ and run with it, turning him into a bit of a clown. During the opening sequence, a completely wayward rocket from Fett knocks a Hutt off its floating vehicle, a sort of giant hoverboard, and our heroes leap on it and fly off. Given that Fett and his fellow bounty hunters are chasing Han and Leia partly because Leia killed Jabba the Hutt, it's quite amusing, but misjudged. Agreed. Boba Fett's characterisation here is all wrong. This is not some bungling, mediocre criminal, this is the galaxy's best and most expensive bounty hunter. Fett haplessly follows Han and Leia throughout the issue. Later on we see his new ship, the very cool and bizarrely shaped Slave II... I've always hated the design for Slave II. It just looked far too much like a generic sci-fi spaceship to me. There's nothing about its design that says "Star Wars" to me. It could've just as easily been a ship from Space: 1999 or Outland or Babylon 5. Kennedy's design for the Rebel E-Wings are much more in keeping with the SW aesthetic, I think. So Star Wars becomes a story about a good family who are constantly threatened by corruption. Wasn't it always? |
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Post by Duragizer on Jul 14, 2018 0:09:05 GMT -5
Before creating Dark Empire, Veitch and Kennedy wanted to make a story about the Jedi before their extermination by Vader; presumably Vima was a character created for that. That's very interesting. I had no idea about that and I agree that this is most likely where Vima originated. In fact, don't we meet her as a much younger woman in Dark Horse's Tales of the Jedi series? My memory's hazy, but that seems to be ringing a bell with me. That's Vima Sunrider. She's this Vima's ancestor. |
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Post by aquagoat on Jul 14, 2018 6:10:17 GMT -5
OK, so I've re-read issues #2-4 of Dark Empire, but first, let me say that your reviews of these comics are great, aquagoat . Really well written and full of interesting opinions, theories and details. Anyway, here are some of my scattered thoughts on those three issues, along with some specific responses to comments made in your reviews, aquagoat... The first thing to note is that my opinion of Cam Kennedy's artwork is more or less the same as it was for issue #1. Which is to say that, although the "disco lights" colouring is detrimental to my enjoyment of the art, the art itself puts across the story very well. It's very "cinematic", inasmuch as it accurately captures the various Star Wars spaceships, the quick pace of the films and the eye-popping visuals, to the point where you can almost hear John Williams' score playing in your head while you read. As for Tom Veitch, he's building a pretty gripping tale here, with some great pacing and some good dialogue. I particularly liked his having Luke Skywalker describe Byss as the "dark center of the universe." That was a nice nod to Luke's comment in Episode IV that, if there was a bright center of the universe, Tatooine was the planet that it was furthest from. Overall, I think Veitch captures the "voices" of the central cast really well, except for Luke, who seems very out of character...but maybe that's intentional, given his turn to the Dark Side. Now for some specific responses...
...the real impact comes from an line uttered by one of the Imperial officers during the battle - when he orders one of his men to, 'inform Supreme Commander Skywalker'. That's right - when we left Luke in the last issue, he had submitted to the Emperor and the Dark Side. Now we find he's not only joined the Empire - he's commanding it! I must say that I feel the whole reason for Luke joining the Emperor in the first place seems flimsy or unconvincing. It seems to be a case of, "this time I'll destroy my enemies from the inside!", when, actually, killing the Emperor again, while making sure that you also destroy his cloning facility seems a more obvious way to go. On a related matter, I love that Leia is being given a decent sized role in things. She's been terribly underused in the disappointing sequel trilogy thus far, but in Dark Empire we see some really good character development. She's also shown to be a fairly powerful Force user herself now -- even attacking the Emperor himself at one point -- which I like. ...to pick out one highlight, the Emperor's citadel is guarded by 12-foot tall robed warriors with tiny red eyes and pike staffs, who look intimidating yet somehow child-like. Actually, these weren't designed by Cam Kennedy; they are based on ROTJ pre-production sketches of the Imperial Royal Guards done by Nilo Rodis-Jamero in the early '80s... The Emperor describes how the events of Return of the Jedi were just one of many times he has died; his Dark Side powers cause his body to decay, and so he uses cloning technology to become immortal. Many reviewers have complained that the Emperor resurrecting himself is a bad idea, but it makes perfect sense that he would do so, if he had the technology - and what did happen to it after the Clone Wars anyway? You can easy envisage Emperor Palpatine commandeering the cloning world of Kamino and using it for his own sinister purposes. This is a wonderful use of existing lore from the films - not just cloning, but the Emperor's decaying appearance in RotJ which always seemed to suggest he was so morally corrupt that his face was warped. Here he even mentions that he exists primarily as formless energy - so the Emperor is literally pure evil, in human form. I have to say that I agree that bringing Emperor Palpatine back again was a bad idea. It goes back to what we were saying in our discussions of Dark Empire #1, in that having the Empire and the Emperor at large again has the unintended consequence of making the events of the original trilogy look as if they were all for nothing. It diminishes the sacrifices made in Episodes IV-VI, just as the First Order's appearance in the sequel trilogy does. Having said that, the Emperor is a great villain and having him come back from the dead is certainly a lot more palatable than, say, resurrecting Darth Vader. Also, although it wasn't intended, the Emperor's ability to be reborn ties in nicely with what we learned in Revenge of the Sith about Darth Plagueis cheating death. So, I think Veitch does a decent job of bringing Palpatine back, even if, on a really fundamental level, I dislike the idea of having him and the Empire back again. I also really liked the old EU explanation for why the Emperor looked so haggard and diseased, which sources like Dark Empire put forward: his appalling appearance was due to the corrosive effects of the Dark Side. That's a much, much better explanation than what Revenge of the Sith offered us, with Mace Windu deflecting Palpatine's Force lightning back at him and scarring his face. We also learn some cool backstory to Admiral Ackbar his home world of Calamari, which the Empire tried to turn into a slave camp many years ago. The Mon Calamari people resisted, and although the Empire destroyed their cities as a result - and had the planet top of the list as a Death Star target - it only hardened the Mon Calamari against them, and Ackbar and co became a valuable part of the Rebel Alliance. I'm pretty sure that the Mon Calamari were shown joining the Rebellion for the first time between the events of A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back in the Archie Goodwin and Al Williamson SW newspaper strip. That doesn't tie in with what Veitch is saying in Dark Empire – and, remember, the Goodwin/Wiliamson strips were considered part of then-current EU cannon at the time. Of course, we now know – thanks to Rogue One: A Star Wars Story – that Veitch was spot on, and the Mon Calamari had indeed been part of the Rebellion since before A New Hope, but I'm pretty certain that this was a continuity mistake on Veitch's part at the time that these comics were originally published. Ackbar himself inexplicably describes the World Devastators as 'far more lethal than the Death Star' - I'm not sure the inhabitants of Alderaan would agree. I totally agree. The World Devastators have always seemed really kind of "meh" to me. I mean, it's an interesting concept to have them gobble up buildings, machines, people etc, and then recycle them into new offensive technology. But more lethal than the Death Star? Don't think so!
I guess that the Devastators might be more lethal than the Death Star to small Rebel assault craft. After all, the Death Star couldn't do much against X-Wings and Y-Wings ("They're so small they're evading our turbo-lasers."), but more lethal than something that could destroy entire worlds at the flick of a switch? Ummm....no. Just no.
We also meet one of Dark Empire's most interesting new characters: Vima Da Boma, who claims to be a former Jedi who escaped Vader's purge. A shabby, wizened figure who conceals great wisdom, she is Leia's own Obi-Wan/Yoda; recognising Leia as a 'Daughter of the Force', and 'the spark that will rekindle the fire'. She even gives Leia a gift which turns out to be, of course, a lightsaber - before disappearing, as all good Jedi do. This was not the end of Vima though, she turned up again in Dark Empire II. The mysterious, wizened old Jedi, Vima-Da-Boma, is, I think, Tom Veitch's single most important and memorable contribution to Star Wars law. Calling her Leia's own Yoda is perhaps going a bit far, but then again, she does have an idiosyncratic speech pattern, in which she refers to herself in the third-person. So there is that parallel, I suppose. But anyway, more of her later... Before creating Dark Empire, Veitch and Kennedy wanted to make a story about the Jedi before their extermination by Vader; presumably Vima was a character created for that. That's very interesting. I had no idea about that and I agree that this is most likely where Vima originated. In fact, don't we meet her as a much younger woman in Dark Horse's Tales of the Jedi series? My memory's hazy, but that seems to be ringing a bell with me. Fett's excuse for surviving Return of the Jedi - 'The sarlacc found me somewhat indigestible' - is plausible enough given he's covered in thick body armour And lets not forget that Jo Duffy had already brought Boba Fett back once in the Marvel run, in the excellent Star Wars #81 – and with the same "Sarlacc finding him indigestible" explanation. Of course, she was forced by Lucasfilm to return Fett to the Sarlacc pit, which is something that Veitch never had to do. I think there were a few Star Wars fans who had a problem with Fett getting resurrected, but, like you, it made a lot of sense to me that he'd be able to escape the Sarlacc. Especially given that he was in his full armour and still had all of his suit weapons intact when he fell in. I loved seeing him back in action in Dark Empire, although, on the downside, his characterisation seemed all wrong to me... However, Dark Empire seems to take Fett's comedic exit in RotJ and run with it, turning him into a bit of a clown. During the opening sequence, a completely wayward rocket from Fett knocks a Hutt off its floating vehicle, a sort of giant hoverboard, and our heroes leap on it and fly off. Given that Fett and his fellow bounty hunters are chasing Han and Leia partly because Leia killed Jabba the Hutt, it's quite amusing, but misjudged. Agreed. Boba Fett's characterisation here is all wrong. This is not some bungling, mediocre criminal, this is the galaxy's best and most expensive bounty hunter. Fett haplessly follows Han and Leia throughout the issue. Later on we see his new ship, the very cool and bizarrely shaped Slave II... I've always hated the design for Slave II. It just looked far too much like a generic sci-fi spaceship to me. There's nothing about its design that says "Star Wars" to me. It could've just as easily been a ship from Space: 1999 or Outland or Babylon 5. Kennedy's design for the Rebel E-Wings are much more in keeping with the SW aesthetic, I think. So Star Wars becomes a story about a good family who are constantly threatened by corruption. Wasn't it always? Well, not if you're only looking at the original trilogy, which is what Dark Empire is a follow-up to. The original trilogy is Luke's Hero's Journey, and Darth Vader is a villain who gets redeemed. The threat of the Dark Side is a plot point, but it's never the main storyline until the climax of Return of the Jedi. Dark Empire though, makes it the primary focus of the story, the undying Emperor attempting to corrupt the entire Skywalker dynasty. Good stuff. Thanks for pointing out where those guards came from - I had no idea. It's cool how Star Wars as a whole has always so many cool ideas and designs that there's a whole reserve of unused ones ready to be put into action - sometimes decades later. The design of Asajj Ventress, for instance, was created when designing a villain for Episode II, as I'm sure you know. Cad Bane came from designs made for the original movie back in the 70s. At the risk of re-running the earlier discussion, I don't think there's any way to continue Star Wars post-Return of the Jedi without diminishing that movie in some way; Return of the Jedi is quite clearly the end of the story. Even Lucas' own proposed Episodes VII - IX would have had to deal with that. The Force Awakens tries to get around this by introducing substitutes for the Empire, the Emperor and Vader, but it feels like repetition rather than ingenuity. Dark Empire, while it does resurrect both the Emperor and Boba Fett, makes the story bigger, and tells us that the original trilogy was just part of it: the Emperor is after the entire Skywalker dynasty so he can live forever, Leia was destined to become a Jedi, Luke's story arc was only half-way through. I could discuss this stuff with you for ages, but anyway....'disco lights colouring' - love it! |
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Jul 14, 2018 8:32:38 GMT -5
That's very interesting. I had no idea about that and I agree that this is most likely where Vima originated. In fact, don't we meet her as a much younger woman in Dark Horse's Tales of the Jedi series? My memory's hazy, but that seems to be ringing a bell with me. That's Vima Sunrider. She's this Vima's ancestor. Ah, OK...that makes sense. I haven't read those early Tales of the Jedi stories since they came out in the mid-90s, but there was some murky recollection about Vima. Thanks for the clarification. |
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Jul 14, 2018 8:44:38 GMT -5
Well, not if you're only looking at the original trilogy, which is what Dark Empire is a follow-up to. The original trilogy is Luke's Hero's Journey, and Darth Vader is a villain who gets redeemed. The threat of the Dark Side is a plot point, but it's never the main storyline until the climax of Return of the Jedi. Dark Empire though, makes it the primary focus of the story, the undying Emperor attempting to corrupt the entire Skywalker dynasty. I disagree. Even in the first movie, it's clear that the Skywalker family are "a good family" that has been "threatened by corruption". We learn that there's a tangled web of intrigue, deceit and murder in the past, involving Luke's father, Darth Vader and Luke's Uncle Owen -- even if most of that info turned out to be inaccurate. With the revelation about Luke's lineage in ESB, and then finding out that Luke and Leia are twins in ROTJ, this family "constantly threatened by corruption" aspect of SW is heightened, but it had been there in some form since the beginning. Luke Skywalker and his hero's journey are the primary focus of the original trilogy, of course, but SW has always been the story of the Skywalker family to some extent. |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jul 14, 2018 9:20:41 GMT -5
I disagree completely about any sequel having to minimize the movies... Zahn's trilogy was, IMO, perfect on that score. It made complete sense to me that the Rebellion would use the victory to move toward re-establishing a galactic republic, and Thrawn was just right as the villain of the piece. Of course something as vast as a Galactic Empire had other ships that those at that one battle, and that someone would try to pull them together and make a play to keep/re-establish order (from their point of view).
The issue with both Dark Empire (which I suppose is techincally before Zahn in the timeline) and the sequels is it makes it seem that the victory in RoTJ was useless.
With Dark Empire, it's not nearly as bad as the existance of the First Order, certainly, but it's still there.
I don't recall if I posted this here or not, but the Mon Calamari have been covered extensively now.. there's a several episode arc from the Clone Wars cartoon about it.
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Post by aquagoat on Jul 14, 2018 11:00:55 GMT -5
Well, not if you're only looking at the original trilogy, which is what Dark Empire is a follow-up to. The original trilogy is Luke's Hero's Journey, and Darth Vader is a villain who gets redeemed. The threat of the Dark Side is a plot point, but it's never the main storyline until the climax of Return of the Jedi. Dark Empire though, makes it the primary focus of the story, the undying Emperor attempting to corrupt the entire Skywalker dynasty. I disagree. Even in the first movie, it's clear that the Skywalker family are "a good family" that has been "threatened by corruption". We learn that there's a tangled web of intrigue, deceit and murder in the past, involving Luke's father, Darth Vader and Luke's Uncle Owen -- even if most of that info turned out to be inaccurate. With the revelation about Luke's lineage in ESB, and then finding out that Luke and Leia are twins in ROTJ, this family "constantly threatened by corruption" aspect of SW is heightened, but it had been there in some form since the beginning. Luke Skywalker and his hero's journey are the primary focus of the original trilogy, of course, but SW has always been the story of the Skywalker family to some extent. I'm not disagreeing that it's there in the original trilogy, of course it is, I'm saying that Dark Empire makes it the main focus of the story, it makes everything else secondary. In RotJ, whether Luke fell to the Dark Side or not was important, but destroying the Death Star was more important. In Dark Empire, Mon Mothma makes it very clear; the fate of the galaxy depends on the future of the Skywalker clan. |
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Jul 14, 2018 13:13:09 GMT -5
I disagree completely about any sequel having to minimize the movies... Zahn's trilogy was, IMO, perfect on that score. It made complete sense to me that the Rebellion would use the victory to move toward re-establishing a galactic republic, and Thrawn was just right as the villain of the piece. Of course something as vast as a Galactic Empire had other ships that those at that one battle, and that someone would try to pull them together and make a play to keep/re-establish order (from their point of view). The issue with both Dark Empire (which I suppose is techincally before Zahn in the timeline) and the sequels is it makes it seem that the victory in RoTJ was useless. With Dark Empire, it's not nearly as bad as the existance of the First Order, certainly, but it's still there. I don't recall if I posted this here or not, but the Mon Calamari have been covered extensively now.. there's a several episode arc from the Clone Wars cartoon about it. Something I will say about Timothy Zahn's trilogy is that it introduced a wealth of extremely memorable and popular original characters that went on to be mainstays of the Expanded Universe: Mara Jade, Talon Karrde, Captain Pellaeon, Jorus C'Boath (albeit his clone), and, of course, Grand Admiral Thrawn. The Dark Empire comics pale in comparison on that front. |
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Post by wildfire2099 on Jul 14, 2018 21:54:48 GMT -5
I don't think that has to do with the story, though... there just isn't any new characters... Dark Empire just different... it was meant to be a more direct continuation of RoTJ (as previously discussed), while the Zahn books were the start of a new thing.
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Post by aquagoat on Jul 16, 2018 11:55:33 GMT -5
Yeah. It's really Dark Empire II that starts introducing new characters.
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Post by aquagoat on Aug 21, 2018 13:35:16 GMT -5
Star Wars: Dark Empire # 5:'Emperor Reborn'  Writer: Tom Veitch Art: Cam Kennedy Letters: Tom Klein Cover art: Dave Dorman This fifth issue begins with a moody, full-page image; a cluster of weird, organic-looking ships hanging in space. If you didn't know better, you may think this was a comic based on Ridley Scott's Alien, and not Star Wars. It's a measure of Cam Kenndy's artwork, and the way Dark Empire has taken us deeper into the Star Wars universe, that such visuals don't feel out of place. Amongst the ships is an Imperial Hunter-Killer, an advanced Probe Droid which hovers ominously over our heroes like a giant, mechanical squid. I've waxed lyrical endlessly over Kennedy's new ships, but here he takes an existing Star Wars machine and turns it into a hugely menacing new foe. The panels of the Hunter-Killer looming over escaping people or outside Han and Chewie's prison cell are wonderfully creepy. Equally worthy of praise is the way Kennedy's world-building details don't rely heavily on the established films. We visit a cantina early in issue five, but it's populated by a crowd of delightfully weird and otherworldly looking characters, and by doing so captures some of the magic of the first time we visited Mos Eisley back in 1977 (or whenever you first saw A New Hope) - more so than actually replicating the Cantina aliens even would. Funny how that works. This penultimate issue centres on Luke, Leia and the Emperor. With the good guys captured in the Galactic Core and Luke seemingly turned to the Dark Side, the Emperor takes time to talk alone with Leia, a little one-on-one corruption in his lovely art noveau bed chambers. It's here in the storyline that the differences between Dark Empire and the Prequels is most evident; with no mention of the Sith, or their eternal rivalry with the Jedi, Dark Empire instead frames the universal conflict not as good versus evil externally, but internally. The Jedi are the Jedi; Darth Vader is a fallen Jedi; and now so is Luke. The Emperor is a wicked sorcerer, but has no tribal hatred of the Jedi - rather, he claims to be the master of all Jedi. There are no Sith as far as Dark Empire is concerned. This approach fits in much better with the original trilogy than the prequels did. The Jedi vs Sith conflict was never apparent in the original trilogy. Instead it was simply old Jedi, a fallen Jedi, the man who corrupted him, and his son choosing his own destiny. The enemy of a Jedi isn't the Sith, it's the Dark Side, his own mirror image. This is a far more interesting take than an eternal war between clear good and evil Force users, and recalls the Arthurian legends when the greatest threat to, and eventual downfall of, the Knights came from within. (As an aside, its clear Lucas was influenced by the Fall of Camelot in the prequels, with the Jedi becoming 'too sure of themselves' and Palpatine a scheming Mordred trying to claim the throne). Anyway, Leia confronting Palpatine seems like an essential Star Wars image we've been missing all this time. He talks to her like a kindly grandfather, she helps him into bed (!), and he shows her a Jedi holocron (an invention which lives on in Star Wars media to this day). The holocron is a small cube containing a huge library of information recorded by Jedi six hundred years ago; again, as with Vima de Boma in the previous issue, writer Tom Veith explores the history of the Jedi prior to A New Hope. The holocron shows a bizarre humanoid whale/crocodile Jedi called Boda Baas, who conveniently tells Leia straight away that all the previous Jedi who attempted to conquer the Dark Side, like Luke is doing, perished. Oh dear. If that wasn't a shocking enough revelation, the Emperor then tells Leia exactly what he's up to - he plans to leave his current, decayed form and incarnate in the body of her unborn child! Even if you saw this coming, this is a great Rosemary's Baby-esque twist and further adds to Dark Empire's depiction of the Emperor as, not the latest in a long line of anti-Jedi as he was in the prequels, but the embodiment of undying evil and corruption; forever trying to claim the souls of the Skywalkers. Leia upends his bed and runs off, but this is exactly the Skywalker anger the Emperor wanted to see and harness. She did take the holocron as well though, which he is less happy about. And what of Luke? The once Golden Boy has now gone full Vader, being fixed up by droids and intimidating immaculately presented Imperial commanders. Here Luke’s plans of sabotage become apparent, as three Devastators have been destroyed by tampering - by someone in the command section. Like Luke is. Hmmm, who could that be? Does the Imperial officer who reports this to Luke not even suspect the former Rebellion leader might be up to something? This whole scene is depicted in livid pink, which by all means shouldn't work, but is instead magnificently moody and intense, and somehow takes the edge off one of the sillier moments of the series. When Leia meets Luke again, she urges him to leave with her. He instead explains that her very presence has helped him break the grip of the Dark Side, and that he's loaded Artoo Detoo with the Emperor's priority battle plans – which could destroy the Empire forever. Leia doesn’t quite trust him though...and when they meet with Han (rescued from the Imperial prison by Salla), the old space pirate just points a blaster in Luke's face. ‘It’s the traitor!” he shouts. This is great, heightened drama, to a level the original trilogy only sometimes reached (mainly in The Empire Strikes Back). The new Star Wars movies sadly don't develop the relationships between Luke, Leia and Han so much as split them up; Dark Empire puts this front and centre. Leia and Han lose faith in Luke to the point of trying to kill him. Leia and Han are married, and Leia's growing Jedi skills lead them away from the politics of the new government. Though Han doesn't really have a storyline of his own here, Dark Empire focuses on progressing and transforming the central trio rather than keeping them static. One of the key reasons Star Wars is so effective is transformation. All the main characters are constantly changing and evolving. Luke goes from rookie farm boy, to hotshot pilot and Force trainee, to enlightened Jedi Knight. Han goes from selfish space pirate, to reluctant hero, to rebellion leader. Vader goes from villain, to fallen father, to redeemed hero. Dark Empire completely gets this, and so offers the next stage for the characters. 
Luke creates a projection of himself to fool the others, a trick which turns up again in The Last Jedi.Our heroes eventually escape, but it turns out Luke hasn’t really gone with them – he’s just projecting an image of himself which soon dissipates – something that was used again in The Last Jedi. Luke did it to save Leia’s unborn child – which apparently Han doesn’t know about yet! The issue climaxes in clash between the Emperor and Luke, who now believes he’s ready to finish the decrepit warlock off for good. Luke has mastered the powers the Emperor has given him, and now confronts him in the clone lab, lightsaber ignited. The Emperor offers Luke a choice – let him occupy his body, or die. When Luke understandably refuses, the Emperor destroys himself. But Luke knows this is just part of the transference, and sets to work destroying every clone in the lab before the Emperor can inhabit any of them.  The reborn Emperor seems inspired by the cold (and naked) Aryan menace of Blade Runner's Roy Batty. He almost does it, too. But one last clone – who is very Roy Batty-esque – survives, and grabs an inexplicably available lightsaber. The Emperor even refers to them as Jedi weapons again, which makes it even more confusing as to why he’d have them at all, let alone in a cloning lab. Luke isn’t impressed though; ‘You forget – I’m a Jedi master now – and I know something about the Dark Side,’ he tells his foe as he uses the Force to slam him against the wall. The duel is only three panels but nicely drawn and choreographed. The lightsabers are like enormous, fizzing candles, swung in huge arcs, and it feels appropriately epic and dramatic. Alas, Luke is defeated, and the Emperor demands he help find Leia and the Holocron, and end the Rebellion for good – a compelling cliff-hanger to lead to the final issue. This is another great instalment, one which commendably ramps up the excitement almost exclusively through character interaction rather than action. The only real drawback is Luke; although there is deliberate mystery over what he’s really up to, and whether he will actually turn completely evil, the writing itself is simultaneously too obvious and very unclear. Luke’s sabotaging of Empire ships is a rather silly, basic plan, and it’s ludicrous that Luke though he could get away with it (and does, although the Emperor knows about it). At the same time, Luke’s motivation becomes confusing. He says Leia has helped him break the grip of the Dark Side, but at no point in the story so far has he seemed to be overcome by it; he’s been in control, sabotaging the Empire’s fleet and hiding secret plans in Artoo. Even in the last issue, when he stood by as Emperor attacked Leia, or threatened Han, it was implied that it was all part of Luke’s plan to fool the Emperor and save the galaxy. Notable dialogue: ‘You are destined to be a far greater Jedi than he is.’ – The Emperor tells Leia her future – although he may be lying to tempt her to the Dark Side. Continuity issues: This is very much a different route for Leia than where The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi took her. Although the two are not completely incompatible – Leia has clearly mastered some Force abilities in The Last Jedi – it would take some explaining as to why she’s abandoned her Jedi destiny and gone back to being leader of the rebellion. Favourite panel: Amazing use of light and shadow as the Emperor destroys his old body.  Other points of interest: there's a suggestion that Leia might consider shooting Luke in the back. This reminded me of a sadly unused idea for Revenge of the Sith; at the end of the film, when Padme visits the fallen Anakin on the lava planet, she would be hiding a knife with which to kill him (only to drop it when realising she loves him too much). Rating: 4/5Apologies it's been over a month since the last update, as compensation here's some fantastic Dark Empire artwork...how cool it would have been to see this on a bus shelter or billboard in 1986.
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. That was about it for the early EU books... Vector Prime was decent (Chewey did have a great death scene there)... and the Han ones were decent, but the Kevin Anderson ones were horrible (the Hutts build a death star in one), and I was ever a fan of Shadows of the Empire.