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Post by Icctrombone on Sept 29, 2018 4:59:55 GMT -5
Speaking of universes, I have been reading some of the Superman books from the recent years and the storyline is that Superman and Lois lane have replaced the Superman and Lois lane from the nu52 versions. Wow, talk about complicated. It seems every comic has had a story where the main character has been replaced by another earths version. Confusing and dopey to read these type of stories.
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Post by Duragizer on Sept 29, 2018 15:44:59 GMT -5
Speaking of universes, I have been reading some of the Superman books from the recent years and the storyline is that Superman and Lois lane have replaced the Superman and Lois lane from the nu52 versions. Wow, talk about complicated. It seems every comic has had a story where the main character has been replaced by another earths version. Confusing and dopey to read these type of stories. Apparently as of Rebirth, [SPOILERS] the post- Infinite Crisis and nu52 Supermen have had their timelines merged, making things even more complicated and confusing. And Jor-El is alive, too. I've pretty much given up on the Big Two. With all the decompression and deconstruction and bad characterization and retcons and Interminable Crises on Infinite Earths, neither company publishes stories I enjoy reading anymore. |
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Post by Icctrombone on Sept 30, 2018 5:54:15 GMT -5
I remember during the Stern/Roger Marshals Dr. Strange run Clea broke up with long time partner Strange in order to move aside for another woman who loved him more. I don't know if they have ever gotten back together since then.
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Post by tarkintino on Sept 30, 2018 6:03:22 GMT -5
I could not agree more. I was sick of comic "creators" thinking they were "edgy" by subverting great and/or cherished stories/character from the past. They should create their own crap and have a bad 'ol, sickening day. |
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Post by Icctrombone on Sept 30, 2018 17:38:30 GMT -5
Captain America gained Super strength in issue # 158 of his book. Why the PTB felt he needed extra strength beyond his Super soldier abilities is beyond me. Maybe the The Captain can shed some light on this. |
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Post by The Captain on Sept 30, 2018 18:53:49 GMT -5
Captain America gained Super strength in issue # 158 of his book. Why the PTB felt he needed extra strength beyond his Super soldier abilities is beyond me. Maybe the The Captain can shed some light on this. According to Steve Englehart's blog, this was dictated by Marvel management, as they were looking for something to goose sales by giving people something to talk about. In Vietnam-era America, there weren't a lot of folks lining up to read the adventures of a flag-waving super-patriot whose biggest nemesis was a Nazi, and the book had been considered for cancellation before Englehart came on it after years of neglect under Stan Lee's writing (and a year of Gary Friedrich and Gerry Conway in the interim). Englehart said he did it as he was instructed, but over time, he downplayed it and eventually stopped using it altogether. It lasted until issue #193, which coincided with the return of Jack Kirby to the title, although the super-strength was not officially declared gone until issue #218, under the writing of Don Glut, who decided to finally put a dagger in this unfortunate era. |
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Post by Icctrombone on Sept 30, 2018 18:57:55 GMT -5
Thanks Cap !
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Post by mikelmidnight on Oct 1, 2018 11:26:54 GMT -5
Byrne has a word 'de-uniquing', he uses to describe what DC did to its characters, which he says as one reason he preferred Marvel in the silver age. Since most DC heroes had sidekicks, and/or relatives with similar costumes or abilities...and since it was revealed that there were a TON of Green Lanterns, making him the 'most de-uniqued' one of them all, Byrne became a 'Marvel guy'.
Of course, that's also what I think Miller did with Daredevil when he introduced all those white-clad superpowered ninjas.
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Oct 1, 2018 13:42:14 GMT -5
Byrne has a word 'de-uniquing', he uses to describe what DC did to its characters, which he says as one reason he preferred Marvel in the silver age. Since most DC heroes had sidekicks, and/or relatives with similar costumes or abilities...and since it was revealed that there were a TON of Green Lanterns, making him the 'most de-uniqued' one of them all, Byrne became a 'Marvel guy'. Abin Sur made it clear in G.L.'s first appearance that he wasn't unique. The Guardians showed up in G.L. #2. There was never any pretense that G.L. was unique. |
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Post by rberman on Oct 1, 2018 13:44:22 GMT -5
Byrne has a word 'de-uniquing', he uses to describe what DC did to its characters, which he says as one reason he preferred Marvel in the silver age. Since most DC heroes had sidekicks, and/or relatives with similar costumes or abilities...and since it was revealed that there were a TON of Green Lanterns, making him the 'most de-uniqued' one of them all, Byrne became a 'Marvel guy'. Abin Sur made it clear in G.L.'s first appearance that he wasn't unique. The Guardians showed up in G.L. #2. There was never any pretense that G.L. was unique. Silver Age GL, anyway... |
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Post by beyonder1984 on Oct 1, 2018 15:42:57 GMT -5
During John Byrnes FF run, he was lauded for bringing them "back to basics " and it was a very entertaining 3 years. But During the company wide Secret Wars series where the Things was away for a year , he had Johny Storm fall in love and Marry long time Ben Grimm paramour Alicia Masters. There was no internet during that time to blow up and have the fans flip out like they do these days so no one could gauge what the response was , but I didn't really like that development. The wedding was in issue #300 and in 359 it was revealed that Alicia Masters was a Skrull all along undoing the bad idea. I don't want to be "that person" but I was on the newsgroups at the time. We also had trade magazines, newsletters, fanzines, price guides, and comic book letters to the editor- not to mention just chatting with your LCS owner and friends. I could vouch that many fans were upset and rioted when She-Hulk replaced The Thing (although that was a Jim Shooter/Secret Wars edict, if I recall), Sue's haircuts, Johnny shacking up with Alicia while Ben was away, even Kristoff was controversial, Sue as Malice, and Byrne's use of N-Word during the SW2 Hate Monger storyline. There was also an awkward moment when we were figuring out how old Sue was when she was in love with Reed. But, yes, Byrne actually had perfected the back to basics approach with an illusion of change in the first half of his run- nice character portrayals, great team chemistry, and old school villains. (He took out Doctor Doom for a long, long time before creating some of his most memorable flashback scenes when Kristoff was converted.) So it is important not to confuse all the changes (many of them due to SW) with a natural illusion of change Marvel formula. I was a vocal minority in that I approved of Steve Englehart and Walt Simonson's runs. I felt Steve truly evolved characters following a logical procession, if not the proper end of the original team (with Ben and Sharry as Ever Evolvin' Things, and Johnny and Crystal being the new power couple, and even Kristoff being the anti-hero). Some fans are unhappy when the status quo is always set back, but then also complain when there are too many changes. I felt Steve was forward-thinking and really broke boundaries with the "illusion of change" we are force-fed, and not in a dark, sick, twisted Image way. I know it has been argued he had penned the last FF comic in the original continuity, and I would not disagree. Of course, Marvel got cold feet so they went back to the "back to basics" trope and Simonson came on to reset everything. But I loved his treatment of Doom and the parody of the Editor who was forcing his hand, and the quantum mechanics probability bubble storyline. I felt Walt has been copied by many other hot shot creators who have come to FF since he has and just change everything until the next writer comes along. I was in the vocal majority when Tom DeFalco ruined the FF for years. |
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Post by beyonder1984 on Oct 1, 2018 15:53:48 GMT -5
Speaking of universes, I have been reading some of the Superman books from the recent years and the storyline is that Superman and Lois lane have replaced the Superman and Lois lane from the nu52 versions. Wow, talk about complicated. It seems every comic has had a story where the main character has been replaced by another earths version. Confusing and dopey to read these type of stories. Apparently as of Rebirth, [SPOILERS] the post- Infinite Crisis and nu52 Supermen have had their timelines merged, making things even more complicated and confusing. And Jor-El is alive, too. I've pretty much given up on the Big Two. With all the decompression and deconstruction and bad characterization and retcons and Interminable Crises on Infinite Earths, neither company publishes stories I enjoy reading anymore. I, too, thought this was horrible. As a child of the original CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS, I had longed for acknowledgment of the Earth-2 (or Golden Age Superman) and Lois. But then Kal-L variants were spammed with INFINITE CRISIS, THE KINGDOM, and the deluge of modern crossovers to the point where DC has diluted Superman (again) due to nostalgia or even IP concerns (when one adds the different variations of Superboy + Supergirl). The different timeline/earth versions are no better than 1990s Spider-clones or offspring of Venom. I still say Alan Moore's SUPREME did Superman continuity better than DC ever did. |
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Post by Icctrombone on Oct 1, 2018 21:00:45 GMT -5
During John Byrnes FF run, he was lauded for bringing them "back to basics " and it was a very entertaining 3 years. But During the company wide Secret Wars series where the Things was away for a year , he had Johny Storm fall in love and Marry long time Ben Grimm paramour Alicia Masters. There was no internet during that time to blow up and have the fans flip out like they do these days so no one could gauge what the response was , but I didn't really like that development. The wedding was in issue #300 and in 359 it was revealed that Alicia Masters was a Skrull all along undoing the bad idea. I don't want to be "that person" but I was on the newsgroups at the time. We also had trade magazines, newsletters, fanzines, price guides, and comic book letters to the editor- not to mention just chatting with your LCS owner and friends. I could vouch that many fans were upset and rioted when She-Hulk replaced The Thing (although that was a Jim Shooter/Secret Wars edict, if I recall), Sue's haircuts, Johnny shacking up with Alicia while Ben was away, even Kristoff was controversial, Sue as Malice, and Byrne's use of N-Word during the SW2 Hate Monger storyline. There was also an awkward moment when we were figuring out how old Sue was when she was in love with Reed. But, yes, Byrne actually had perfected the back to basics approach with an illusion of change in the first half of his run- nice character portrayals, great team chemistry, and old school villains. (He took out Doctor Doom for a long, long time before creating some of his most memorable flashback scenes when Kristoff was converted.) So it is important not to confuse all the changes (many of them due to SW) with a natural illusion of change Marvel formula. I was a vocal minority in that I approved of Steve Englehart and Walt Simonson's runs. I felt Steve truly evolved characters following a logical procession, if not the proper end of the original team (with Ben and Sharry as Ever Evolvin' Things, and Johnny and Crystal being the new power couple, and even Kristoff being the anti-hero). Some fans are unhappy when the status quo is always set back, but then also complain when there are too many changes. I felt Steve was forward-thinking and really broke boundaries with the "illusion of change" we are force-fed, and not in a dark, sick, twisted Image way. I know it has been argued he had penned the last FF comic in the original continuity, and I would not disagree. Of course, Marvel got cold feet so they went back to the "back to basics" trope and Simonson came on to reset everything. But I loved his treatment of Doom and the parody of the Editor who was forcing his hand, and the quantum mechanics probability bubble storyline. I felt Walt has been copied by many other hot shot creators who have come to FF since he has and just change everything until the next writer comes along. I was in the vocal majority when Tom DeFalco ruined the FF for years. I really enjoyed the Defalco/Ryan run. I re-read it every year or so. Welcome to the forum, beyonder1984. |
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Post by Icctrombone on Nov 5, 2018 21:41:24 GMT -5
In the mid 90's Warren Ellis wrote Thor starting with # 491. What followed was an abomination including a shirtless guy shacking up with the Enchantress who spoke like a guy from Brooklyn Ny. Thank Odin that onslaught happened along to change the God of thunder into his classic persona.   |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2018 21:57:44 GMT -5
In the mid 90's Warren Ellis wrote Thor starting with # 491. What followed was an abomination including a shirtless guy shacking up with the Enchantress who spoke like a guy from Brooklyn Ny. Thank Odin that onslaught happened along to change the God of thunder into his classic persona. And we got the Heroes Return Thor series by Jurgens & Romita Jr!  |
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