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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2018 9:59:12 GMT -5
It makes you wonder what the point is of all those designations.
Designations are fine - if you're working in the civil service (as I once did) and you need to locate a person's tax record. But who do those designations benefit?
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Post by zaku on Dec 3, 2018 10:31:43 GMT -5
It makes you wonder what the point is of all those designations. Designations are fine - if you're working in the civil service (as I once did) and you need to locate a person's tax record. But who do those designations benefit? Well, if our hero has to travel between universes, it's useful for the writer to write "Meanwhile, in Earth-32..." instead of every time writing "Meanwhile, in the Universe where every superhero of this world is an amalgam of two characters from the "regular" DC Universe, like, for example, Batman is Green Lantern, but there is also a Black Arrow, Wonderhawk, Aquaflash..." |
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Post by Slam_Bradley on Dec 3, 2018 10:37:47 GMT -5
Slam_Bradley , a perfect example of a Multiverse Event is DC Comics ZERO HOUR and that's at that time; I've never heard of Waverider, Rip Hunter, Monarch who later became Extant, and did not had a clue of where they came from. It was kind of confusing at first and a whole flock of heroes and villains that came on board to assist Superman by using Green Lantern's power ring as a call for help. I had to take a crash course to understand the characters in (see above) bold to fully understand this multiverse event and all that. With that alone, it's made my enjoyment of this event more and more difficult and that why I don't like this six-part series at all. For the characters in bold, this is the first time in my life that these characters came into play; and my first exposure to Rip Hunter and that's surprises a lot of my friends at the LCS at the time of this event/multiverse came to existence. That's why I prefer these events to be small in scope and not having 40-60 characters on hand to numb and make you bewildered and compound you with mind numbness realities. This is the best way, to tell everyone here why I don't care for multiverses of any kind at all. But what you're actually describing here isn't a multiverse problem. It's an event problem. Zero Hour was post-Crisis. DC had done away with the multiverse and hadn't (at that point) brought it back in any way. So the issues here is Event issues. Waverider and Monarch had previously been introduced in Armageddon 2001...another event. If you missed that event...you likely wouldn't know about them. As to Rip Hunter...I don't know what to say about him. He'd been around for 35 years at the time that Zero Hour came out. Albeit he hadn't appeared regularly for about 30 years. He did have a mini-series called Time Masters about four years before Zero Hour. You're not describing the multiverse which was the set-up that kept the JLA on one Earth, the JSA on another, the Shazam folk on another, etc. |
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Post by rberman on Dec 3, 2018 10:40:37 GMT -5
It makes you wonder what the point is of all those designations. Designations are fine - if you're working in the civil service (as I once did) and you need to locate a person's tax record. But who do those designations benefit? The fan base loves to talk about the stories, so it's convenient to have short hand like "Earth-1" or "the 616" to make it clear which version of a character or story you're talking about at any moment. I imagine internal company documents use the nomenclature as well. |
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Dec 3, 2018 12:38:30 GMT -5
Oh yeah, that probably was the origin of the Marvel Mutltiverse - maybe the What If? series, too.
Although the concept of parallel realities organized into DC style multiverse - as far as I can tell - first showed up in Alan Moore's Captain Britain run for Marvel UK. That's where we first learned about earth 616.
Still, a lot of Marvel's multiversal status seems to be implied retroactively. The Golden Age Flash specifically lived on Earth 2, but the Ultimate Universe wasn't originally a parallel universe... it was it's own completely distinct publishing line! Until it wasn't. and Spider-Man teamed up with Ultimate Spider-Man.
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Post by brutalis on Dec 3, 2018 13:34:52 GMT -5
The ONLY need for a multiverse is for whatever the writer want's. It seems readers like and need a sense of "stability/consistency" in order to make sense of comic books. DC had it right from the go: Earth 1, 2, 3 etc and then you let those versions cross over if necessary. There was absolutely nothing wrong with the idea of alternative histories, make believe stories or such in the earliest days of comics book as I personally believe that kids in the past had more intelligence and imaginative capabilities than kids of today. Here in the present time it seems kids and/or adults need to have everything spelled out so it makes proper sense to them for comprehension.
I would really like to see comic books which covered multiple times, dimensions, universes or whatever else is necessary. There is no reason to other than as a fan to connect things together. Companies will do it for monetary reasons: Transformers not selling well enough then have Spider-Man pop up. Eternal's not the big seller Marvel wants so place them into the MU when their creator never intended such. Shazam's not a big enough sale with stories in his more cartoony/simpler style then lets make him part of the current DCU. No reason other than we want to connect them all so lets put future DC; Atomic Knights, Kamandi, Hercules, LOSH, OMAC all as part of the current DCU because....well why not? Hawkman can't be different concepts because they are all the one and the same?!? Why? Just because someone thinks it is so.
Give me alternate realities or whatever. No reason to connect Godzilla to the MU other than Marvel wanted to do so. The same for ROM, Micronauts, Transformers and their likes. No reason why they have to shoe-horn all stories together. POA has been doing just fine crafting alternate tales without losing or confusing readers. Some sell, some don't and that is just the nature of comic books. Taking a risk so as to try for something different and interesting which buyers will purchase is the entire reason for the birth of a multiverse. Pick what you like and ignore what you don't like.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2018 14:11:14 GMT -5
One of my favourite crossovers of recent times was one I didn't expect to work: Star Trek/Planet of the Apes.
I was sure it wouldn't work. But it did. And this is an example of why a multiverse can be a good thing. There would have been no way to reconcile the earth history of POTA and Star Trek had it been a shared earth tale. A cursory knowledge of Star Trek history as it pertains to Earth, and POTA history as it pertains to Earth, would not have been reconciled in any way, shape or form.
However, by having Kirk and crew cross over into an alternate universe, they were able to tell a damn fine tale!
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Post by Rob Allen on Dec 3, 2018 14:20:57 GMT -5
They are based on the date of the first publication of a story in that world. 616 means June 1961. 85101 means October 1985. Etc. But 616 wasn't first published in June 1961. FF #1 was cover dated Niovember 1961 and went on sale in August 1961, and the Marvel Universe later incorporated characters and continuity from the Golden Age. The 'Nam #1 was cover dated December 1986 and went on sale in September 1986. June 1961 was the cover date of the debut of Dr. Droom, later renamed Dr. Druid, in Amazing Adventures #1. October 1985 was the cover date of Savage Tales #1, which included a story titled "The Nam, 1967" by Doug Murray and Michael Golden. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2018 14:45:46 GMT -5
Slam_Bradley , a perfect example of a Multiverse Event is DC Comics ZERO HOUR and that's at that time; I've never heard of Waverider, Rip Hunter, Monarch who later became Extant, and did not had a clue of where they came from. It was kind of confusing at first and a whole flock of heroes and villains that came on board to assist Superman by using Green Lantern's power ring as a call for help. I had to take a crash course to understand the characters in (see above) bold to fully understand this multiverse event and all that. With that alone, it's made my enjoyment of this event more and more difficult and that why I don't like this six-part series at all. For the characters in bold, this is the first time in my life that these characters came into play; and my first exposure to Rip Hunter and that's surprises a lot of my friends at the LCS at the time of this event/multiverse came to existence. That's why I prefer these events to be small in scope and not having 40-60 characters on hand to numb and make you bewildered and compound you with mind numbness realities. This is the best way, to tell everyone here why I don't care for multiverses of any kind at all. But what you're actually describing here isn't a multiverse problem. It's an event problem. Zero Hour was post-Crisis. DC had done away with the multiverse and hadn't (at that point) brought it back in any way. So the issues here is Event issues. Waverider and Monarch had previously been introduced in Armageddon 2001...another event. If you missed that event...you likely wouldn't know about them. As to Rip Hunter...I don't know what to say about him. He'd been around for 35 years at the time that Zero Hour came out. Albeit he hadn't appeared regularly for about 30 years. He did have a mini-series called Time Masters about four years before Zero Hour. You're not describing the multiverse which was the set-up that kept the JLA on one Earth, the JSA on another, the Shazam folk on another, etc. Understood, at the time of ZERO HOUR ... I did not know anything about Rip Hunter at all when ZERO HOUR came out in 1994, honest. Thanks for the additional info ... and I consider this matter close. |
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Confessor
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Post by Confessor on Dec 4, 2018 3:40:38 GMT -5
It makes you wonder what the point is of all those designations. Designations are fine - if you're working in the civil service (as I once did) and you need to locate a person's tax record. But who do those designations benefit? The 616 designation was completely arbitrary, according to Alan Moore, who came up with it in the pages of Captain Britain. It was just a random number and was kind of meant as a joke. Later writers ran with it though and significantly added to the list of other alternate realities. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2018 8:39:46 GMT -5
It's a big multiverse, eh? ;-)
I was disappointed when I learnt that the early DC/Marvel crossovers had their own earth. I really wanted those exploits to be part of mainstream DC and Marvel canon.
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Post by Reptisaurus! on Dec 4, 2018 13:01:50 GMT -5
It's a big multiverse, eh? ;-) I was disappointed when I learnt that the early DC/Marvel crossovers had their own earth. I really wanted those exploits to be part of mainstream DC and Marvel canon. In that case I think over-explaining actively made it worse. Some things should remain ambiguous. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2018 13:09:48 GMT -5
I agree.
For me, it was good enough to know that Supes and Spidey, my two favourite superheroes, lived on the same earth. It actually made me appreciate DC and Marvel even more. When I read Steve Ditko/Stan Lee Spidey tales, I was thinking, in retrospect, about how, as Spidey began his career, Superman was fighting crime not that far away. It was nice to think they lived on the same earth.
So for someone (was it the Watcher?) to reveal that those early DC/Marvel crossovers took place on a particular earth, well it was what you state, over-explaining.
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Post by beccabear67 on Dec 4, 2018 13:13:50 GMT -5
If The 'Nam has it's own universe, does anyone know who won there?  Also, does Peter Porker, The Spectacular Spider-Ham have his own universe? Is it the same as Captain Carrot, Hoppy The Marvel Bunny, Super Goof and Mighty Mouse? Can we just say that is so there can be a League Of Super-Animals? |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2018 13:18:26 GMT -5
It's a nice idea, Beccabear!
Spider-Ham has appeared in "our" universe in recent years, teaming up with mainstream Spidey and others.
What's the status of Captain Carrot? If that was the final question on Who Wants To Be A Millionaire?, I would not have a clue what the answer is. ;-)
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